The Book on Ireland's Drafts

[SkapePhin]

Solid in Round 1
Poor/Mediocre in Round 2 & 3
Good/Solid in Round 4 - 7
Good/Great with Undrafted FA

Doesn't bode well for the 5 picks in 1st 3 rounds, but this seems to be the book on his drafts. He has yet to completely whiff in Round 1 which is good, but he has some notable gaffes in round 2 & 3. Does a pretty solid job on all the late round picks.

Agree or Disagree?

 

[retarmyfinfan]

There is people on this forum who could do better than Ireland.

 

[LANGER72]

I would like to see a more detailed list of all 5 of the drafts that he participated in and the FA signings for that year.

It should make for some excellent discussion and definitely a few face palms and eye rolls.

IMHO..Ireland sucks, but I would not mind seeing his body of failure

 

[SkapePhin]

I would like to see a more detailed list of all 5 of the drafts that he participated in and the FA signings for that year.

It should make for some excellent discussion and definitely a few face palms and eye rolls.

IMHO..Ireland sucks, but I would not mind seeing his body of failure

You would need to compar it against drafts from other GMs during that time period to really make sense of the data. Can't really compare it in a vacuum. You need to determine what is the success rate of draft picks in each round for "successful" GMs and then compare Ireland's work against that.

 

[Spesh]

Solid in Round 1
Poor/Mediocre in Round 2 & 3
Good/Solid in Round 4 - 7
Good/Great with Undrafted FA

Doesn't bode well for the 5 picks in 1st 3 rounds, but this seems to be the book on his drafts. He has yet to completely whiff in Round 1 which is good, but he has some notable gaffes in round 2 & 3. Does a pretty solid job on all the late round picks.

Agree or Disagree?

Disagree for a couple reasons(great Undrafted FA?)but will focus on the highlighted part.

According to many on here Vontae Davis was one of the worst players in the history of the NFL and we stole a second round pick from the Colts. Personally, i dont buy that, but isnt it a complete whiff when our first round pick isnt worth keeping on the team?

 

[SkapePhin]

Disagree for a couple reasons(great Undrafted FA?)but will focus on the highlighted part.

According to many on here Vontae Davis was one of the worst players in the history of the NFL and we stole a second round pick from the Colts. Personally, i dont buy that, but isnt it a complete whiff when our first round pick isnt worth keeping on the team?

I wouldn't consider it a whiff if the player still retains a 2nd round value and helped contribute to wins during their time here. I would consider Ted Ginn a first round whiff. We had to ship him off for a 6th to get rid of him. Likewise, Jason Allen was a 1st round whiff. When a guy nets you a 2nd round pick 4 years after he was drafted, you have to say there is some value there.

 

[Valandui]

Disagree for a couple reasons(great Undrafted FA?)but will focus on the highlighted part.

According to many on here Vontae Davis was one of the worst players in the history of the NFL and we stole a second round pick from the Colts. Personally, i dont buy that, but isnt it a complete whiff when our first round pick isnt worth keeping on the team?

Also, our first overal pick is about to be on another team. Two out of five being gone already isn't solid, especially when you look at who we passed on.

 

[SkapePhin]

Also, our first overal pick is about to be on another team. Two out of five being gone already isn't solid, especially when you look at who we passed on.

Find me another team whose 1st round picks over a 5 years span are still all starters in the same team in year 6? I would actually be very interested to know.

 

[Valandui]

Find me another team whose 1st round picks over a 5 years span are still all starters in the same team in year 6? I would actually be very interested to know.

It can't be both ways. You can't whiff on 40% of your picks and also be solid in the first round. Add in all of the second round misses and it isn't a pretty picture.

 

[Spesh]

I wouldn't consider it a whiff if the player still retains a 2nd round value and helped contribute to wins during their time here. I would consider Ted Ginn a first round whiff. We had to ship him off for a 6th to get rid of him. Likewise, Jason Allen was a 1st round whiff. When a guy nets you a 2nd round pick 4 years after he was drafted, you have to say there is some value there.

So buying high and selling low is a shrewd strategy for team building? Its perfectly acceptable for your first round picks to not be on your team so long as you get lower value for them?

And what wins did Vontae contribute towards? He was drafted in '09. We havent had a winning season since '08. Were those 7-9 and 6-10 seasons that valuable to the history of this franchise? It wouldnt surprise me if some on this forum felt that they were.

 

[Spesh]

Also, our first overal pick is about to be on another team. Two out of five being gone already isn't solid, especially when you look at who we passed on.

Lets keep it going: Jared Odrick is either delegated to playing a position he isnt suited for or he is a back-up. Mike Pouncey is a good player but was the highest drafted center ever.

Simply plugging holes, especially when you dont plug them and trade/let the player walk later, isnt enough. Quality of the players matter. As well, our general manager clearly places a premium on positional importance. Offensive lineman have a higher hit rate than, say, quarterback or pass rushers. To declare it a victory because Ireland drafted 2 lineman in 4 years is absurd, especially since it looks like Long is walking. I dont see it as any different then us drafting a kicker in the first then declaring Ireland's "success" rate in the first is outstanding because he "hasnt" busted on a player.

 

[SkapePhin]

It can't be both ways. You can't whiff on 40% of your picks and also be solid in the first round. Add in all of the second round misses and it isn't a pretty picture.

Jake Long went to 3 pro bowls on this team. He contributed. How can a pro bowl player be a whiff if he contributed on a high level for several years? If RG3 is out of the league in 3 years due to injuries, is he a whiff too? I think you guys are aging semantics at this point. Both Vontae and Jake contributes greatly to the team while they were here, unlike Ginn and Allen. For that reason, I wouldn't consider them whiffed picks.

 

[Spesh]

Jake Long went to 3 pro bowls on this team. He contributed. How can a pro bowl player be a whiff if he contributed on a high level for several years? If RG3 is out of the league in 3 years due to injuries, is he a whiff too? I think you guys are aging semantics at this point. Both Vontae and Jake contributes greatly to the team while they were here, unlike Ginn and Allen. For that reason, I wouldn't consider them whiffed picks.

Yup. Spending a top 2 pick on a player who gives you 5(or in this case 3) years? Absolutely a whiff.

Lets flip this around: what about Robert Gallery. Is he a whiffed draft pick or not? He was a horrific tackle, just a complete bust for where he was picked, but he had a good season at guard. By all accounts, you would consider that a "solid" second overall pick.

How about Ronnie Brown? He was actually on the team for a winning season, but had what...1 good statistical season? Was he a "solid" draft pick?

What is your criteria for "non-whiffed" picks? 5 good seasons? If they have a single good year but are hot garbage for 4, do you consider that a great pick? How about if they never contribute to a winning record, still a great pick?

Apparently, myself and others have a higher opinion on first round picks. Granted, some consider Ireland a great general manager so they might have a skewed opinion on the importance of draft picks.

 

[miamiron]

You would need to compar it against drafts from other GMs during that time period to really make sense of the data. Can't really compare it in a vacuum. You need to determine what is the success rate of draft picks in each round for "successful" GMs and then compare Ireland's work against that.

That wouldn't work because it's more difficult for a draft pick to make a top team versus a team coming off a 1-15 season where most of the draft class should become the nucleus for the future. Look at our 2008 draft when 9 players were selected and all nine players are no longer on this team.




Plus we don't know how much of a say Ireland had in the early drafts and even though I have doubts galore regarding Ireland
I cannot definitively say WHICH PLAYERS HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR.

 

[The Omen]

Also, our first overal pick is about to be on another team. Two out of five being gone already isn't solid, especially when you look at who we passed on.

Long was a wiff because he might go to another team that will essentially outbid us? That's not a whiff if he is desired by other teams, as a matter a fact with all his 2012 woes and once Clady is locked up by Denver, if Long hits the Market he will be the most desired FA LT... Hardly a wiff

VD wasn't a whiff either, before the season started we got a 2nd round pick from the team that had the 1st overall pick just months prior... Just our luck the Colts go and turn a 2-14 team into a playoff team... Guys like Allen and Jamar Flethcher, now those are whiffs!