The Dolphins’ Jarvis Landry has some cryptic tweets. Let’s try to make sense of them

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Albert Romano, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. Digital

    Digital Starter Finheaven VIP

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    The Steelers are great at not overpaying for a talented but not dominant WR. Each time they let someone go, the media says it is a mistake. Yet, they keep making the correct moves. Here in Miami, we lost Welker because we lowballed him. It wasn't very long ago that we failed to extend Miller and Vernon, and saw them become priced out of the market. I have a feeling Landry will be gone, but if he stays, it's almost guaranteed that we eat an albatross contract. The time to re-sign him was a season or two ago, when he was reasonably priced. Any decision we make now is going to be a bad choice.

    Let's face it, our front office isn't the Steelers or Packers, and we don't keep our nucleus in tact very often. Although, that has changed somewhat in the Gase era.
     
  2. Chuck-182

    Chuck-182 Well-Known Member

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    If you're trying to compare Grant to Landry you must be delusional. I like Grant but I doubt he's ever gonna do much for us.
     
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  3. RobertHorry

    RobertHorry Scout Team

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    I'm not comparing Landry to Grant. I'm comparing the absurd ration of his catches to TDs.
     
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  4. 1 dol fan

    1 dol fan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the argument on FH for not paying him (roughly 6-9 months ago) that he didn’t score enough TDs?

    That was also the argument for resigning Stills. He scored so many TDs that we would be lucky to replace that production.

    So now that Landry has put up double his previous TD catches for the season, he still doesn’t deserve it. Not saying I’d sign him to a 5/$75mil but I’d go as far as to offer 5/65 as a final offer.
     
  5. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

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    9 TD/season is damn good regardless of the amount of catches.

    Are you expecting 15-20 TDs?
     
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  6. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

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    Bingo.
     
  7. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    Mike T swings for Graham, especially if Landry leaves just watch. Although he is more a red zone target probably at this point but it’s a name so...
     
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  8. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

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    3, 6, 8, 6, 2, 10, 8.

    Do you know what those numbers are? TD receptions by Julio Jones through the years. Never would I compare the two. Julio is top notch elite. But the TD argument with Landry is over after this season.

    He produced 9 TD catches with piss poor QB play.
     
  9. GreenMts

    GreenMts Seasoned Veteran

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    Landry is an exciting player. Is he a consistent difference maker - no. For that money give me a top quality TE and put someone serviceable in the slot and let Landry go. Fine with that. We should not be paying big money for a slot receiver.
     
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  10. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    1 dol fan likes this.
  11. 1 dol fan

    1 dol fan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Thanks Albert. Helps to put things into perspective.

    I wouldn’t budge beyond 13 and if he wants it sweetened, do it in the guaranteed money.

    I don’t know what I’d offer him in that case but maybe first two years fully guaranteed with a portion of the 3rd (say half?). That would be roughly 30mil. Is that enough? Or too much?
     
  12. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    I think Jarvis target is like 14, my opinion is 30 m guaranteed is too much for my liking. This is why I think we have the impass.

    The WR FA class isn't great and you could see a team like Cleveland knock it out of the park without batting an eye. I think the only way he stays is if franchised and that’s a big bite. Maybe they franchise and extends after but idk man.
     
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  13. Blackcreekbandit

    Blackcreekbandit Drunk Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I see your points but one thing you left out is Pitts ability to identify wr talent in the draft year after year. That makes it easier to let guys go
     
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  14. Digital

    Digital Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Depending upon cost, he could be a great get. At his size and athleticism he's still a seam mismatch in our division against any LB. While the Seahawks system doesn't utilize him, he would have a renaissance in Gase's system back home in Miami. But you're right, he isn't as fast, athletic or durable as he used to be.
     
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  15. volk

    volk Seasoned Veteran

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    The same thing happened with Welker, and we all know how that worked out. I understand people want to save money for other positions, but many of them also believe we will draft a replacement, which would be worse than paying him. You might save money, but you are wasting a draft pick on a position we already have the best player in the league at. We need those picks at DL, LB, OL, and TE. You want to save money, then don’t overpay for Suh and LB’s that can’t cover anyone. Let Wake walk and get rid of Parker. These are real moves that don’t require letting your best performer on offense go.
     
  16. Digital

    Digital Starter Finheaven VIP

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    You are absolutely right. By no means do we have that kind of eye for WR talent. But, we have done much better in that department lately. Consider, we go Landry when he was overlooked, and when we grabbed Parker he was clearly worth the pick and possibly the most talented WR in that draft ... but his injury issues have prevented him from reaching those heights. Then our savvy trade for Stills when he had no market looks quite good. Rarely do WR's move from one team/system to another and maintain the same level of success, so that makes the Stills move far more impressive than most people realize. And for a 6th round pick, Jakeem Grant looks pretty darn good to my eye.

    We're getting better at identifying WR talent. OL Talent ... not so much. (Yes, I see Jesse Davis and Eric Smith, but we can't compare their talent level to Landry, Parker, Stills and Grant).
     
  17. RobertHorry

    RobertHorry Scout Team

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    16.4 to 8.8

    Do you know what those numbers are? YPC between Julio and Jarvis and that's with Julio demanding bracketed coverage almost every play.
     
  18. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Feels like a lot of people are doing the sour grapes thing. He’s our best WR and it isn’t even close - catching, running, blocking, ST value - none of the other guys can do all of these things as well in one package. Need to keep him.
     
  19. fakespike

    fakespike Starter

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    ya'll are harsh
     
  20. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero Donator

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    I agree with you but playing devils advocate, the additional 101 catches and 7 TDs equates to a TD every 14 catches (every game and a half or so), not a bad average, although Grant still had the better average TD per catch.
     
  21. Adam Strange

    Adam Strange Question Authority Finheaven VIP

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    And if he wants 15 million and half the stadium? Give it to him. God forbid we be without our slot receiver this year. There goes the Super Bowl run.
     
  22. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    One receiver can do it all,a Great balanced WR, this is reflected in the fact that he has 21 TDs from the red zone and 23 TDs outside the red zone
    The other one plays in a 10 yard box, this is reflected in the fact that he has 19TDs in the red zone and 3 TDs outside of the red zone

    Being a red zone threat is a good thing, and while Landry was very good there this year, his 9 TDs came at the expense of the running game that only yield 4 rushing TDs...
    • 2017 offense, force feeding Landry, netted 31 total TDs...
    • 2016 offense, balanced, netted 41total TDs...
    • No matter what the reasons are, coaching, QBing... you name it, it doesnt matter, his red zone production CAN be replaced, as it was in 2016...
    There is this trend were the less we target Landry. the more TDs overall the offense scores... The sample size his minuscule so take this with a grain of salt. But it's still interresting that both seasons Landry was tops of the league in targets, were the 2 worst scoring outputs by the offense...

    • 2017: 161 targets, offense total TDs: 31
    • 2016: 131 targets, offense total TDs: 41
    • 2015: 166 targets, offense total TDs: 35
    • 2014: 112 targets, offense total TDs: 39
     
  23. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

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    I am talking strictly touchdown production, which was the biggest knock on Landry by Dolphins fans prior to this season. Clearly stated that Julio is without a doubt in a class above. It helps, however, to have an elite QB throwing you the football vs. the absolute trash we had at QB (Cutler AND Moore).

    I'm curious what Landry's YPC was with Tannehill at QB last season before he went down. His overall 12.1 YPC is fine for a "slot receiver" -- it's difficult for me to take WR numbers too seriously with atrocious QB play.
     
  24. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    10 million plus a year for a slot guy is absurd.

    Doug Baldwin is a better player and he barely got 10 a year. I'd swap them 100% of the times if I could.
     
  25. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    The real problems is were not getting WR1 production from anyone on he team (and the QB play hurt).

    If, for example, Parker was the WR1, things might look a little different.
     
  26. Adam Strange

    Adam Strange Question Authority Finheaven VIP

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    Excellent point. Landry's supporters want the team to pay him #1 WR money, even though he's not. And that's an extremely short-sighted thing to do when the team is lacking a #1 receiver and will have to pay for one in order for the team to improve. Not a good idea to keep overpaying people when there's still a huge lack of talent on both sides of the ball.
     
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  27. superphin

    superphin Starter Finheaven VIP

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    We lose Landry we lose our best RZ target last year. 6'3 Parker caught less than 17% of his passes inside the 10 while 5'11 Landry caught 78% of his passes inside the 10. I would gladly pay him at least 13 million. His value to the team is worth at least that. We all want a stud #1 WR unfortunately in the last 15 years we have failed draft a #1 WR, and our free agent pickups have bombed. If replacing/drafting/singning quality players was as easy as many want it to be or think it is. Than why is it taking so long to fix the mess that has been our OL and why did it take so long to find a QB to replace not Dan Marino but to surpass Jay freaking Fiedler as our longest tenured starting QB.
     
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  28. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    I will bet you ANYTHING that New England will NOT SIGN LANDRY
    IT'S NOT HOW THEY DO BUSINESS.

    And frankly I'm tired of "If we don't sign player x
    he will go to New England"
     
  29. Csonked Out

    Csonked Out FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    and if Landry got 14 we would be paying 22 million a year for 2 non #1 receivers, I want to let him walk for that reason alone. Personally, I like Stills better anyway.
     
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  30. Liphinphan

    Liphinphan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Well said. I get the Wes Welker stuff but who else? Ninkovich? Sammy Morris? Brandon Gibson? Mike Gillislee? Silly narrative
     
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  31. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    "pay the man" "pay the man".....never mind that we need help in so many positions, let's just over pay for a slot WR and of course once we do that we still never a real #1.....so lets just say Parker becomes that #1 then how do we keep him when it's time for him to be a free agent? Do we just let him go to keep Landry because "he plays with passion"?
    Now lets say Parker doesn't become that number 1.....we still need to bring a #1. I'd love to keep Landry but I'd not pay him 10mill a year, lets alone 14. Our FO keeps making these kinds of dumb deals that are bringing the team down but what's amazing to me is how many people on this board wants the FO to keep making those same dumb deals......I guess people just never learn....smh

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  32. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    for the record, Welker wanted to leave and we couldn't stop it. So we got two picks for him. Talking about Welker has gotten real old man

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  33. Beach Bum 91

    Beach Bum 91 Water Boy

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    After reading through this thread, my vote is : don’t overpay and if he walks enjoy that 3rd or 4th round comp pick. Use the money saved on signing and upgrading positions of need.
     
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  34. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    Does anyone remember Welker's td production in his 3 years/46 games
    with us? He had 1 receiving td in 46 games/3 years

    I don't care what he did after he left us
    I only cared what he did for us and it wasn't very much
     
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  35. matt11390

    matt11390 Starter

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    Not that I'm arguing. I agree Miami must do a lot better with their TE usage but 2017 was a different season for Landry. This season he didn't have the big long plays like the few he's had in the past. However, 2017 he produced in the red zone which hasn't ever done. Your slot WR needs to be a red zone threat especially when that position typically isn't the beyond 20 yard guy like the wide outs should be. I go back and forth with Landry and his future. I love him as a player and his productivity is off the charts. But is he worth 14 million a season? Probably not. Although realistically Miami needs to look beyond the position label of slot vs wide out. They paid Stills 8 million a season for one good season. Landry now has 4 very good seasons. If Stills had 4 productive seasons like Landry would Miami have paid him 14 million? Once again, don't look at the position just the value. Can Miami create an offense where their best offensive player is the slot WR and pay him as their best? They sure can. It ultimately comes down to what Gase envisions for the team. Personally I want Miami to keep their best players instead of letting them walk. Just my opinion.
     
  36. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

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    This I agree with.
     
  37. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    When you ask if the team can "create an offense where their best player is a slot and pay him like one?" The team has been running it's offense thru Landry and it has not worked at all. We've had one of the lowest scoring offense in the NFL with him being the number one target.

    When you say the team "needs to look past the position".......that's how we got in a cap mess to start with when we made a DT the highest defensive player in the NFL. The pay structure of super bowl winning teams does not include over paying for DT's and slot WR's. You pay big money for your QB and the guys that can get to the QB. If you over pay for Landry then we'll have a big problem once we have a real number 1 in place.

    Like you said, he's have 4 very good seasons and yet the team can't score enough. No it's not his fault but rather, the fault lies with your line of thinking that running an offense thru a slow slot WR would work. It hasn't and it won't and you've had 4 years of it so there's no excuse for anyone not to know. It's right there for everyone to see. A slot WR catching 100 passes will not work when 90 of them are 5 yards or shorter.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  38. superphin

    superphin Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Are you saying we've had one of the lowest scoring offenses BECAUSE of the amount of targets Landry gets or because he is by default our #1 receiver?

    if its the 1st one to that I say the Patriots of 2001 had the #6 scoring offense with Troy Brown as their primary target. I know Brady is Brady but I'd like to believe 2016 version of Ryan Tannehill if not better than 2001 Brady isn't that far off. I'd also like to believe besides OL the 2016 phins had better WR/HB/TE corp than the 2001 pats. Obviously Pats had better defense/coach/and OL thus a Super Bowl.

    Also since we've had Landry and a healthy Thill our scoring offense has been #11, #27, and #17..2014 Wallace had 3 more targets than Landry, 2015 I would say is a wash as we had a coach change and Coordinator change in the middle of the year it was just a mess all the way through. 2016 without out all the fuss of 2015 we went back up to #17. 2017 could have been an upward trend with Thill in the lineup, maybe even a top 10 or right outside the top 10 offense.
     
  39. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I'm saying that as long as we keep running our offense thru Landry we will never be a high scoring power offense. I'm not blaming him. It's the coaching staftS who for some weird reason have decided to do that. I have explain many times before why I feel this way but on a nutshell, going thru him we need 12 to 14 play drives in order to score because he's not going to get you chunk yards. The problem with needing so many plays is that you have to be perfect most of the drive. When you have to run that many plays you'll have a bad pass or a drop or a sack or a penalty or a turnover.......so many times we're having a good drive and boom, something goes wrong and then drive dies. When you can go deep then you don't need so many plays and you can score more. Yes other teams have gone a few yards at a time but you need to be perfect like the 49ners were back in the 80's. That's the point I'm trying to make. You want to know why we have some many drives that don't end with a TD? Simple. Look who we're running our offense thru

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  40. TannDaMan17

    TannDaMan17 Well-Known Member

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    Juice is much more valuable than Baldwin, and it's not even close. Besides being more than 4 years younger, he's got better hands and is tougher too. Juice just needs to calm down sometimes. Once he learns how to do that, the sky is the limit. Juice still has HoF potential, that ship sailed for Baldwin a long time ago.
     

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