The Great Mistake of signing Hartline: A Waste of #2 WR Money + Foolish Strategy | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Great Mistake of signing Hartline: A Waste of #2 WR Money + Foolish Strategy

im really surprised about the holdup on the deal. whats up?
 
It's obvious the OP knows nothing about football. When evaluating individual play you have to look at the individual player and what they did or didn't do. It takes other teammates to do their jobs correctly for WR to score TD. True Hartline only had 1 TD but how many times did he get 2-3 steps behind the defense only to be over or under thrown? I'd say at least 4, not his fault if the QB didn't put the ball where it needed to be. So actually he had 74 catches 1000 yards and 5TD ( based on what HE actually did) so the question is are those #2 numbers and worth 6mil???? I'd say yes!
 
Disagree completely. Hartline is being paid not only because he is absurdly clutch, but because he has a year of chemistry with Tannehill under his belt already. You drop Hartline and bring in a new receiver for what 1 mil less a year, and there are no guarantees as to how they will mesh with Tannehill. The Tannehill to Hartline connection has been proven to work, why stop a good thing?
 
When Hartline was single covered he played well. It is not a mistake to resign Hartline even at 6 million.
 
I like what Hartline does and his rapport with Tanny is a hard thing to duplicate with a new guy. Now that I've started entertaining the idea of drafting a Keenan Allen in the first I've changed my stance. I'd rather pay Jennings an additional 2-3 mil to be paired with a 1st round rookie WR. That way you save the money that would go to 2 wideouts (Hartline @ 6 + Wallace/Jennings @ 12/8), and in turn can spend 8 on a solid proven receiver like Jennings and just an additional 1.5 on your first rounder that has an elite ceiling at a cheap price. In that situation you can not only bring on Jennings and Keenan Allen (quickly falling in love with the kid) for around 10 mil combined, you can further add an additional big play guy, like a Cook (@6-7 mil). There's 17 mil to an established more than solid veteran in Jennings (or bump it up to 21 mil if you're a Wallace guy), a rookie contract for Allen and a seam threat in Cook. And just like that you have plenty of cap room to fix your other holes and have 3 big play receivers paired with one of the better slot guys in the league in Bess. Throw in what Lamar Miller brings to the table out of the backfield and boom, you've got weapons on offense and still a good chunk of change burning a hole in your pocket. Just my 2 cents (no pun intended....).
 
LDaniel7 said:
The. Truth.

Football people -- watch the film on this guy and tell me he's a number two on a good team? Or tell me he's not more of a backup 2 -- ie. a number 4? -- not even a slot WR?

LD
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The other 9 gm's in you're fantasy football league don't count as football people.
 
I gotta say the hartline bashing is getting old. He was one of our best players last year yet you people bash him. You have to pay some players that you groom. IMO Hartline was great last year. I know what youre response will be already. "But only 1td". True but I dont blame as much for that, tanny overthrew a few, albeit probably cuz of hartlines speed, but hartline isnt a deep ball guy, he was just the only guy that could fool the cbs and safety. As for his YAC, that will greatly improve when we can get the damn safeties away from him. Id fall too if i knew there was always gonna be a guy waiting to drill me. Wallace and a fast te will will greatly improve hartline. Not to mention the great chemistry with tannehill, his work ethic and dedication, his leadership and intelligence. He is worth the 6.5-7 mill. So get over it.
 
LDaniel7 said:
With the numbers 6 and 6.5 million per year being thrown around for resigning Hartline, I just have to post regarding the limitation that will bring Miami's offense.

For sake of argument, let's say Miami signs Wallace [Note: the argument gets even more powerful if Miami doesn't sign Wallace, more on that later]. Anyway, say Miami signs Wallace, a WR that MUST be double-covered in some fashion, if the opposing team hopes to hold the Phins in check. However, that weapon is nullified to extreme degree IF the number 2 WR on the other side of the field can EASILY be single-covered and poses no threat to gash the D down the field. Which, of course, is exactly what Hartline is: He'll be paid excellent NUMBER 2WR money, without the ability to be a number 2 that can make opposing teams pay for single coverage.

Not only that, whenever you pay an extremely mediocre WR that much money, you rob yourself of money that could go toward greater talent -- say Wallace at WR or Cook at TE.

Do the numbers:

Which tandem would you rather have? Which would put the most pressure on opposing teams? Wallace + Hartline for 19 million per, together. Or, Wallace + Cook for 21 million per, together?

Laugh. It ain't even close. Hartline with his slow-foot, non-physical, non-separation, non-leaping, non-redzone, poor catch-radius ability just ain't maximizing anything for the O. It's a waste of money AND a waste of a number 2 skill position that DEMANDS speed and talent, leaping ability and physical play and great catch radius, if not great speed. Hartline has NONE of those things.

And one thing is certain: If Hartline gets signed for anywhere near 6 mill w. guaranteed money involved, you might as well fold up that money and smoke it, if a number 2 playmaker is your goal. The Fins will have necessarily COMMITTED themselves to mediocrity at that position -- AND wasted money that could have gone for Cook, etc. -- OR, passed on potential gamebreaking WRs in the draft and skill/potential in lower rounds because they already "filled" that position.

WRONG. Waste of money and a number 2 roster space.

Please send Hartline and his 6 million dollar request on his way. Instead, sign Wallace and Cook and start from there, in the draft...

Sincerely,

LD
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didn't Hartline get 1000 yards going against the best defenders often times double-covered? yeah, pretty sure he can handle single coverage by the opponent's #2 DB
 
Man the kid came in late due to illness. Did everything asked of him. Played above his skill level ... and people are upset if he benefits an extra 500,000 to 1,000,000 in a free agent market that likely will go bonkers. I don't get it.
 
maralieus said:
I gotta say the hartline bashing is getting old. He was one of our best players last year yet you people bash him. You have to pay some players that you groom. IMO Hartline was great last year. I know what youre response will be already. "But only 1td". True but I dont blame as much for that, tanny overthrew a few, albeit probably cuz of hartlines speed, but hartline isnt a deep ball guy, he was just the only guy that could fool the cbs and safety. As for his YAC, that will greatly improve when we can get the damn safeties away from him. Id fall too if i knew there was always gonna be a guy waiting to drill me. Wallace and a fast te will will greatly improve hartline. Not to mention the great chemistry with tannehill, his work ethic and dedication, his leadership and intelligence. He is worth the 6.5-7 mill. So get over it.
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I have played starting quarterback for 4 years and it's not Hartline's fault because he couldn't get into a 3rd gear on an overthrow from Tannehill. An overthrow is an overthrow, simple as that. It's the quarterback's fault.
 
Everyone talks about Hartline having only 1 td last season and are quick to make excuses blaming
everyone but Hartline and his inability to get into the end zone. The same people need to get another excuse for
Hartlines 1 td in the previous 26 games before this past season...Now your talking 2 tds in 42 games

Just take a look at the points the Dolphins have scored in the past 42 games
2012...288 pts
2011...329 points
2010...186 points....last 10 games

That's 803 points the Miami Dolphins have scored in the past 42 games
Hartlines contribution over the same 42 games has been scoring 12 points

12 points out of the last 803 scored

He is responsible for .014% of our total point output

I cant for the life of me figure out how many of you would even entertain for 1 second paying this guy $6-$7 million a year
 
jjizzim said:
It's obvious the OP knows nothing about football. When evaluating individual play you have to look at the individual player and what they did or didn't do. It takes other teammates to do their jobs correctly for WR to score TD. True Hartline only had 1 TD but how many times did he get 2-3 steps behind the defense only to be over or under thrown? I'd say at least 4, not his fault if the QB didn't put the ball where it needed to be. So actually he had 74 catches 1000 yards and 5TD ( based on what HE actually did) so the question is are those #2 numbers and worth 6mil???? I'd say yes!
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I agree with you it take more then one person to score a TD but it works both ways... There were just as many plays if not more were Hartline had a chance to break a shoe string/ ankle tap tackle and score a TD and he didnt. He has shown over the past 4 years he has terrible terrible YAC ability. The guy simply can not stay on his feet or break a tackle or shake someone in order to score a TD.... So yeah our ROOKIE QB missed a few throws but our Veteran WR also has his share of poor plays that didnt help us to score. At the end of the day 1 TD a year for a #1 WR is really bad and not worth 6+ mil a year. I agree with OP when he said there are alot of 2nd and 3rd round WRs this years draft that can become good players in this league and would probably give us the same production Hartline can as a #2. 550-700 yards ad 2-3 TDs can be done by a decnt rookie wr as a starting #2. Guys like Woods, Hunter, Bailey, Hopkins, Patton and maybe even Swope i think can do it for us. With Wallace here Hartline would do what he did when Marshall was here. 600- 700 yards a 1-2 TDs.
 
Let's look at Hartline over the years with a speed threat (Ginn) and then marshall as his no. 2, then compare that to someone who's been the #2 to Wallace..Jerricho Cotchery Stats--2 years in pittsburg..2 TDs, high of 237 yards, Antonio Brown Stats : 3 years 7TD's, high of 1000 yards. (2nd year),
Emmanuel Sanders Stats: 3 years, 5TD's, high of 626 yards this last year and they played with Big Ben as QB..Hartline is pretty much equal with them. When you look at Hartline with a speeder as the other receiver he avg 16.3 yards a catch..even by himself last year he still avg. 14 yds. So he'll do just as good as any other #2 with Wallace in fold.

Receiving Stats
SEASON TEAM GP REC TGTS YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LST
2009------ MIA 16-- 31-- 56-- 506- 16.3- 67-- 3- 26- 0-- 0
2010------ MIA 12-- 43-- 73-- 615- 14.3- 54-- 1- 27- 1-- 1
2011------ MIA 16-- 35-- 67-- 549- 15.7- 41-- 1- 30- 0-- 0
2012------ MIA 16-- 74-- 128- 1,083 14.6 80- 1-- 48- 1- 1
Career--------- 60- 183-- 324- 2,753 15.0 80- 6- 131 2- 2
 
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