The lawsuit will be against NFL not the Dolphins,hazing is a legal form of bullying. | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The lawsuit will be against NFL not the Dolphins,hazing is a legal form of bullying.

skaarsgard said:
Guess I was confused by the "COURTS" attachment to the header and the thread starting off with... "Hazing is a legal form of bullying"
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Still worth discussing.

Its relatively simple, did Martin go through anything that could be construed as such:

A hostile work environment exists when an employee experiences workplace harassment and fears going to work because of the offensive, intimidating, or oppressive atmosphere generated by the harasser...

The United States Supreme Court stated in Oncale v. Sundowner Offshore Services,[4] that Title VII is "not a general civility code." Thus, federal law within the USA does not prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not extremely serious. Rather, the conduct must be so objectively offensive as to alter the conditions of the individual's employment. The conditions of employment are altered only if the harassment culminates in a tangible employment action or are sufficiently severe or pervasive.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_work_environment

If yes, we lose. Period. And im not sure how anyone can look at what hes gone through and objectively say "yeah, we are totally fine, thats doesnt appear to be the case at all". All ive heard is people spinning this into a blame the victim routine and making wild, ridiculous excuses about how the NFL is "different".

And thats assuming Martin even takes this to court. I dont think he will...unless there is more information we dont know. The league is masterful at delaying cases or having them settled in their favor. The concussion settlement was for $765 million, which is supposed to cover everyone, including future players. Im not sure how anyone can think Martin stands a chance of a big payday by himself. Likely they would settle it for something like the veteran minimum($2 million). Martin could have made vastly more money just by keeping quiet and continuing his career.
 
Hayden Fox said:
If Martin takes this to court to prove a point and garner money, he is exactly what is wrong with this country.

This is not what the court system is for.
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The civil courts exist to right wrongs. If Martin feels he was wronged, the courts are the place to seek justice. There are plenty of countries where that isn't the case; I doubt you'd want to live in any of them.
 
skaarsgard said:
Hazing is a legal form of bullying? Wtf does that mean exactly?

Hazing is definitely illegal in some states regardless of any ties to bullying... Some states have legislated it illegal if it leads to injury (physical or mental).

A simple google search of "is hazing legal" will answer that question with hundreds of replies in one second.

But we really haven't read of hazing leading to martin leaving the team. We've read countless stories on bullying and or racism. However, if we substitute the bully and or racist buzzwords with "harassment" and "discrimination" we then have a much clearer assessment of the infractions and paths leading forward.

And that is going to very ugly for the dolphins and professional sports in America.
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In reply to Spesh... I think we're on the same page here.

Also, I posted a much more detailed outlook on my opinions of Martin's agenda and paths moving forward in the Incognito voice mail thread before that I'd be interested in your thoughts on.


http://www.finheaven.com/showthread.php?346692-Looking-at-the-voicemails
 
Phindog said:
Martin has no clue what he has done in his rocking the NFL with this non-sense.

Hazing is a legal form of bullying and the NFL allowed it to go on without any guidelines.This is a slippery slope but if there is a suit and the fact that Martin more than likely will never set foot on an NFL field again,will have no choice but to sue.

What team in their right mind would even consider a locker room cancer like Martin? So if you're going to sue,they say go after the biggest phish, no pun intended,

The NFL knows about the hazing and allows it to continue.They are at fault as much for not controlling or setting rules in place prior to this ever happening.

The NFL avoiding suit may have to step in and come up with a financial settlement for Martin and re-evaluate their policies.[/QUOTE

No idea what you are basing your info on. As mentioned by Polian yesterday, this is an issue of Federal law, Human Resources, and providing a safe work place.
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Spesh said:
So he should have just sat around and been put through the ringer by a sadist. Toughness! Meekly keeping quiet about a problem while losing money and being threatened. Such toughness! Letting a bully walk all over you. Rawr, all this manhood toughness is making me hard!

He risked a lot coming forward. His reputation, his financial well being, and his future. That requires fortitude. Of course you dont recognize that because courage of conviction doesnt require fists and hitting things.
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I'm sorry it's so hard to look outside the box.

If he was at wits end he should have had a sit down with the coach and the owner,he should have gone to Cogs and said enough is enough,and let some of the team mates know he had enough.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
No idea what you are basing your info on. As mentioned by Polian yesterday, this is an issue of Federal law, Human Resources, and providing a safe work place.
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I'm basing my info on common sense,the NFL knows about what rookies go through do they not?

The player if he was smart and I'm guessing seeing his family is in the business would go after the big dog,the NFL.

It's not that complicated..
 
Phindog said:
I'm sorry it's so hard to look outside the box.

If he was at wits end he should have had a sit down with the coach and the owner,he should have gone to Cogs and said enough is enough,and let some of the team mates know he had enough.
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That's what the player's/ team's / league's unwritten rules would suggest he have done. The written rules of the league or federal law ( Another google search task for you, whistleblower protection) would mandate a different response. It sounds like Martin followed the latter
 
Martin went the I no longer want to play in the NFL route.The I still want a lot of money route and I now have enough evidence to get both.

Armando Salguero ‏@ArmandoSalguero 23m
Not for a while. He's in treatment and lawyered up. RT @karljlaw: when do you think we hear from Martin, the most important one in all this.
 
Phindog said:
I'm basing my info on common sense,the NFL knows about what rookies go through do they not?

The player if he was smart and I'm guessing seeing his family is in the business would go after the big dog,the NFL.

It's not that complicated..
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It is complicated. You say that hazing is a "legal" form of bullying. According to who? The NFL's knowledge of something does not make it law.
 
Phindog said:
Martin went the I no longer want to play in the NFL route.The I still want a lot of money route and I now have enough evidence to get both.

Armando Salguero ‏@ArmandoSalguero 23m
Not for a while. He's in treatment and lawyered up. RT @karljlaw: when do you think we hear from Martin, the most important one in all this.
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Or you can counter that argument with Martin went the abused and need of protection route. Whether that protection was needed for his mental state, financial (current and future) state or simple, fair employment, we've yet to hear.

His handlers have guided him down the legal path of protecting himself first and foremost.

We can all probably agree it was done knowing his future in a locker room was most likely forfeited in doing so.
 
Phindog said:
I'm basing my info on common sense,the NFL knows about what rookies go through do they not?

The player if he was smart and I'm guessing seeing his family is in the business would go after the big dog,the NFL.

It's not that complicated..
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I would GUARANTEE that there is some legal wordage in each team's charter about 'hazing' and or 'harassment'... From the NFL... That would hold them exempt (to an extent) from damages... Like colleges... Even when it is knowingly being practised...

Also I would think it would be hard to prove that the NFL governs, monitors or could be expected to know exactly what goes on in each and every team locker room... You would have to prove that the League was negligent... Like if Martin went to them and they ignored him... Which it doesn't look like what happened.

I think you would be hard pressed to drag the league into this and the easy target is the Phins as the 'employer'. But no question you are going to see a lot of new regulation by teams and owners to prevent this in the future... No matter what the outcome... There are going to be a lot of 'Jonathan Martin' rules put into place.
 
Youd think that all this pure torture that Martin has been the beneficiary of,that these un-named sources would have said something or anything bad about Cogs but it's pretty much the opposite.

The only negative about this entire case is the foul sewer mouth email that Martin saved.Martin would have been servred dealing with it right then calling a meeting with Philbin and Ross.
 
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