This is what Ireland did the last time he had the 12th pick

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by phinatic1399, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

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    ### The Dolphins learned Sunday night they will pick 12th in April's draft. San Diego, Miami, Tampa, Carolina and New Orleans all finished 7-9. The draft order among those five teams was determined on strength of schedule. The Chargers pick 11th, followed by Miami, Tampa, Carolina and the Saints.
    The last time Miami picked 12th (in 2010), the Dolphins traded the pick to San Diego for the 28th pick (Jared Odrick) and the 40th choice (Koa Misi). Miami passed on Dez Bryant and Jason Pierre Paul, among others, at 12, that year. The last two players selected 12th were defensive lineman Fletcher Cox by the Eagles (2011) and quarterback Christian Ponder by the Vikings (2010).




    Instead of staying put and taking Pierre Paul he traded down and took Odrick. Instead of taking Gronk he took Misi. He passed on Bryant. He has no clue to evaluate impact talent. Good luck this offseason. Were all gonna sit back and hope he takes a big time WR, pass rusher, or CB witht the 12th pick but I can see it now. Ireland will either stay put and take and OL or trade back to accumilate more picks and draft more scrubs.

     
  2. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    two guys who contribute alot now. took a while...but, trade down get tyler eifert is in the cards. then extra pick for T. Cant lose. you can pass on a good player, but makes no diff if the player is not something we really need.

    IMO, Kennan Allen is no better than Stedman Bailey and Bailey stock likely to rise after combine.
     
  3. phinatic1399

    phinatic1399 Diehard Phinatic!

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    two are extremely serviceable but that's all. I could care less if they contribute. So what john denny contributes. Odrick is a 3rd round talent that rarely flashes impact ability and misi is an extremely average LB. I would much rather have JPP or Gronk.
     
  4. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    so who do you want? quit badmouthing others while not giving insight please!!! Pierre Paul's name not mentioned much this year. notice that?

    ---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------

    and gronk had injury issues. well documented. but hindsight is great thing you know? plus he plays for the best QB and system in the league. Its not just about talent.
     
  5. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    I'm already worry about what Ireland might do. I hope he proves me wrong and has an awesome free agency and draft but I'm not holding my breath. I keep thinking we're gonna do great but I'm worry he's going to mess everything up.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  6. LANGER72

    LANGER72 A True Fan

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    We should take the best player available at 12. We need elite talent across the board. The pattern of plugging holes with 2 tier talent only goes so far. We have a solid team, but we need to grab great players.
    At 12, usually there is an elite RB, LB, DE, TE, SS, or the 2nd best WR still on the board. Team usually make a run at QB's, LT's, CB, and WR so there should be a player we can use.
     
  7. srdnaty

    srdnaty Practice Squad Punter

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    The best organizations build through the draft and a lot will trade down to stock pile picks. Look at the Pats. The more picks you have the better. The success rate of hitting a draft pick is not good, so if you have more picks you increase the likelihood of success. Nothings a guarantee. Look at some drafts 5-6 years ago and half the first round picks are not on rosters.

    Trading down can be a good philosophy if players on the board are over valued and you can still put yourself in the spot to get a player you want later in the draft.
     
  8. LANGER72

    LANGER72 A True Fan

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    I disagree about ODrick, he is just playing out of position. He is a 3-4 DT, not a DE. Misi is not a force at the LOS, but he is effective in coverage as a LB. That was his strength when he was drafted. He is a good player, but he is not the right part for this 4-3 defense. He was drafted to play OLB in the 3-4. He is still servicable, and maybe have some trade value if the team decides to go that way. Probably not this year though. .02
     
  9. srdnaty

    srdnaty Practice Squad Punter

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    What if there is not "elite talent" at a position of need at 12? "Elite Talent" is a very subjective term. Some would have said that Ted Ginn Jr was an "elite talent". Personally I'm not extremely impressed with this class of WR's. If we trade down it could be a good decision.

    Also I think drafting a RB with the 12 pick is foolish. Its a passing league and Rb's are a dime a dozen and usually only last 5 years. I agree with the Parcels/Ireland philosophy, no RB at 12. For every top 5 RB selected anyone could name 5 later round picks that are very productive.
     
  10. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    And what if nyg had missed on jpp???

    Id be al for trading down again this year.
    i think theres a good chance if we dont trade down, the board may dictate an ol pick at 12... im not confident a premiere edge rusher will be.there at 12.... trade down and get a 3rd, 2nd rounder???? Where there is a ungodly amount of good talent this year, many.of which can fill a need for us.... sign me up.
     
  11. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    2 words... Cordarrelle. Patterson.


    Either trade back and pick this guy up or take him where we are. Can you say PLAYMAKER?
     
  12. northnj dolfan

    northnj dolfan Well-Known Member

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    I agree 100% best player available, this team needs playmakers at alot of positions that you mentioned.

    We need studs on this team,

    Manti Te'o would be nice after watching Danny Woodhead running on us yesterday
     
  13. psfign

    psfign A True Fan

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    hind sight is always 20/20
     
  14. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    Hindsight is such an interesting/convenient tool used by fools.
     
  15. Lilseb93

    Lilseb93 This Is My House

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    Odrick and Misi are decent to solid picks, but neither is a play maker. We have very little of guys who can take over games. I understand "play makers" is a subjective term and the draft is a crap shoot, and yada yada yada..... but I see other teams find guys who make immediate impacts all the time. Decent starters are great to build with, but you also need play makers or you will have a mediocre team that will go 7-9 every year.

    We're an average team. That's all. We draft average players. That's all I know Ireland for. He has yet to draft a big time play maker. His two play makers were traded for and a FA from Canada.
     
  16. nyashfan

    nyashfan For Earth Below

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    I think the Dolphins could really benefit from a power back. Would you give any consideration to Montee Ball, especially since 1) Daniel Thomas is looking like a bust and 2) WR could be addressed in free agency?
     
    miamiron likes this.
  17. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Formerly Fiedler for MVP

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    Leading up and during these drafts, people here were SCREAMING for guys like Earl Thomas, TY Hilton, Gronk, Michael Wallace, Jimmy Graham. Its not hindsight.

    Ireland's style is clear: invest heavily in the trenches(which apparently are still a mess), then pluck "acorns" at the skill positions, then wonder in front of a national audience why he only has 4's, 5's, and 6's at WR.
     
  18. Lilseb93

    Lilseb93 This Is My House

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    Agreed. A lot of us wanted those guys at the time. It's homerish for someone to say it's hindsight to excuse Ireland.
     
  19. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    Completely agree.

    I think everyone here would love for our general manager to display alittle foresight. Sadly, Ireland uses hindsight and only worries about yesterdays holes. Its that type of foolishness which leads to Marc Colombo being signed then having to spend a second round pick on Jonathan Martin.
     
  20. Exuro

    Exuro Well-Known Member

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    The 2012 draft was mainly a foresight draft. Many key free agents in 2012 had replacements drafted. Now, it's a different story if those picks worked out, but the intent is plainly visible.

    Jake Long... drafted Jonathan Martin
    Anthony Fasano... drafted Michael Egnew
    Reggie Bush... drafted Lamar Miller
    Brian Harline... drafted Rishard Matthews and BJ Cunningham
    Randy Starks... drafted Kheeston Randall.
     
  21. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    Lol I agree that we missed on a lot of great talent throughout the years. I also think if we pass on Patterson we will be watching him in highlight reels for another team every Sunday wondering why we took a Ginn-esque receiver instead of him.

    Somebody email Jeff a youtube video of C. Patterson and J. Hunter :lol:
     
  22. srdnaty

    srdnaty Practice Squad Punter

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    Ty Hilton was a third round draft pick which means he was passed by twice by each team, so everyone who needs a WR was a fool not to draft a guy with one good season? If that is the case than you are saying that the people on this board would be better NFL GM's than most everyone in the league.
     
  23. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    Let look at who's playing well right now......ya, that's the guy we should have drafted. I can be a GM in the NFL too!!!
     
  24. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    Yup.

    I asked you this in another thread and you avoided it, but do 2 wrongs make a right?

    General managers should be held accountable for their mistakes. If they pass on a player they could need, they should be held responsible. The excuse of "everyone else did it to!!!!" is laughable. Its high schoolish.

    And i'll say it outright: there is a good number of posters on here that could absolutely be better general managers than Jeff Ireland. They have publically proven to be vastly more accurate in their predictions than our paid GM. The "armchair general manager" snide comments are also hilarious. If these "armchair GM's" are more accurate than Ireland, doesnt that say more about the guy who is actually the general manager than the people on this forum?
     
  25. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Formerly Fiedler for MVP

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    The guy played in our backyard for Pete's sake. We should have at least as much info on the guy than other teams. Ireland may or may not have wanted him in the draft, but he asked for him as part of the Vontae trade and got rejected. I wonder if he was targeting Hilton in the 4th just like he targeted Graham a round later than he was taken. Day late and a dollar short.
     
  26. insomnia411

    insomnia411 The world is yours

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    Oh interesting. Because I clearly remember screaming for Dez at 12, and begging for Hernandez in the 3rd during the 2010 draft. I guess I'm a fool cuz I'd rather have explosive playmakers than plodding bums that wouldn't start on good teams. Odrick is pretty good, but Misi and Jerry are both awful. Given what we SHOULD have had from that draft, the 2010 draft was an embarrassment and the fact that Ireland is still our GM is a joke.
     
  27. mrhankey81701

    mrhankey81701 A True Fan

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    Completely different scenario from what OP is mentioning. We traded down because we didn't have a 2nd round pick. This year we have 2 2nds so the need to trade down isn't as a great. In fact I would say trading up is a more likely scenario
     
  28. Tunaphish429

    Tunaphish429 1st Ballot Hall of Famer Donator

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    Hindsight is twenty twenty...jpp was seen as a project...and the team that took him took him as a luxury because they had so much talent at de...gronk was coming off an injury...its not like everyone thought he was going to be great...oh yea and tom brady is his qb...that helps a bit...

    Jeff ireland does not get a pass but most of irelands top picks were players that tony coached that year in the senior bowl...

    Oddrick at one time was actually thought to be a top ten pick...so we when everything shook out those players we got were great value...we also got dobbins in the trade..a player who has not worked out for us..but was pretty good for sd and the texans...

    Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
     
  29. SQuinn17

    SQuinn17 League Dominator

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    Typical Jeff Ireland logic right here. Keenan Allen is 6'3, 220 and plays similar to Brandon Marshall without the attitude problem, yet he's just marginally better than Bailey, a 5'10 guy who we could probably get in the 2nd round anyway.

    Additionally, nobody else besides yourself would trade Earl Thomas, who's made 2 pro bowls already, for 2 "serviceable" (mediocre) players in Misi and Odrick.
     
  30. Austin Tatious

    Austin Tatious Starter

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    They had already squandered a second for Brandon Marshall in that draft. Then they drafted Odrick who was redundant to a solid player in Kendall Langford. Misi is an average player. In the 3rd they drafted John Jerry over Jimmy Graham.

    They should not have traded for Marshall.

    They should have stayed at 12 and taken Earl Thomas or Dez Bryant.

    Instead of redundancy in Odrick, they could have resigned Langford.

    Geez, this isn't brain surgery, Ginger. None of the foregoing requires any hindsight. Marshall was a known malcontent but Miami made the mistake to trade for a guy with emotional problems. They squandered two 2's. Then Odrick was a luxury when they already had Langford. You get no where when you draft redundancies. They had holes they needed to fill. Ireland was obviously looking heavily into Dez. If Dez isn't your cup of tea, Earl Thomas would have filled a tremendous need. Redundancy plus an average linebacker with off the field problems (Misi) for the 12th pick.
     
  31. endorPHINS72

    endorPHINS72 Restore the greatness!

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    Foresight is a tool rarely used by the ignorant and the dumb.
     
  32. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    So he is, yet again, just replugging the same holes he is creating. And using your logic, he decided that right tackle shouldnt be addressed at all. I suppose he's still hoping Colombo comes out of retirement for one final paycheck.

    Brilliant stuff. Thank god the NFL awards the team that has the most losing seasons.....wait a second.
     
  33. Exuro

    Exuro Well-Known Member

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    So, he shows foresight by addressing potential holes before they appear, and now the criticism changes to having hole to fill to begin with? None of the players I listed are mutually exclusive, this year proved it. The free agents can be retained and then Miami has starters plus depth.
     
  34. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    I see you subscribe to the "quantity over quality" philosophy that Ireland employs. We passed on Earl Thomas who I wanted and has 10 INTs and 3 fumble recoveries in 48 games...13 turnovers. Jared Odrick and Koa Misi combined have 3 turnovers in the same time period.

    It's time for quality...time for playmakers.
     
  35. Mogwai

    Mogwai Seasoned Veteran

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    What a ridiculously false statement. Without hindsight how do you judge what was once foresight? Hindsight is probably the greatest teacher. Results don't just spring out of random chaos. They are the reaction to the choices that were made. Without learning from the past how else would you improve moving forward? There are people on these forums who constantly reject the idea of learning from past mistakes. They mock people for bringing up moves from the past because they don't understand the connection with the present. I've seen this here for years now, people like you look at this team with confusion through a very short sighted lens because you don't think to look back at that road that led to this point.
     
  36. MRojas4

    MRojas4 The Cheese Connoisseur Finheaven VIP

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    Really?

    Another Captain heindsight thread?
     
  37. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    You cant have it both ways. Ireland cant have drafted Martin to play 2 positions on the field at the same exact time. As well, Ireland publically stated his desire to resign Long last offseason. By every single statement that has been made on the subject: it wasnt "foresight" in case Long leaves, it was hindsight with Ireland drafting Martin to cover up his past mistakes at right tackle. And if Long walks, that isnt a shrewd move by Ireland because he has Martin, that is complete incompetence.

    http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sport...hins-ot-jake-long-wont-talk-cameron-wake.html

    Yes, lets not speculate any further.

    Anyways, even if your 100% correct(your not), then Ireland has no interest in fixing this team. He drafts players and immediately plots to replace the same players he just drafted. Again, i wouldnt call that "Foresight" id call that paranoia. And failure, lots of failure. I wont even get into how hilarious it is that people still believe 6th and 7th round draft picks(some of whom have been cut) are viable replacements in impact positions.
     
  38. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    you kidding me? Misi was a beast in the run game in this 4-3. He got his nose dirty alot! totally disagree there. Odrick is a DT period in either scheme.
     
  39. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    and yet you and alot of others wouldnt even consider that he did look at the past moves to change up. Alot of people who hate Ireland only have one liner blanket statements of hate with little to no backup.

    None of us know how decisions came about on the inside. We can only speculate on what we are told by the media, whome I take with a large grain of salt and try to read between the lines. I look at Ireland as a guy who is shrewed and who can make mistakes like any other GM in this league. After all, he is human. We all talk on here, myself included, like we know exactly what something is, until the truth comes out later. Alot of overreaction happens around here and they pounce like tigers to meat only to find out it was tofu.
     
  40. mrhankey81701

    mrhankey81701 A True Fan

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    At the time Odrick wasn't redundant to Langford. If you remember going into the draft we had announced Randy Starks would be moving to NT opening up a hole at RDE. At this point Paul Soliai was still considered a bust. The plan was to start Odrick, Starks and Langford on the D-line. Misi was a slight reach at the time but he was drafted to fill the hole across from Cam Wake. Hind sight is easy but at the time we drafted to fill the holes we had in our front 7.
     
  41. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    It was different circumstances then.

    I know I hang my hat on Eifert, thats just me. I am confident that if Ireland/Philbin see a stud DE, CB, S, or OLB/MLB at 12 they will take them. But IMO, it seems to me, that when it comes to CB's at least, that there are not elite CB's in this draft based on what I am hearing, so why draft one in round 1 if you know you can get a guy who fits and will be just as good in round 2 and you take the guy you know will fire up your offense in round 1?

    Why take a WR who is not elite and will probably just be as good as some 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounder? Particularly if you just obtained Jennings or Wallace in FA?
    due diligence on value, thats what it really is.
     
  42. Gonk

    Gonk A True Fan

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    Trading down would be idiotic in this draft. We need a big time playmaker/star on this team, which we can get with the 12th pick.
     
  43. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Wasnt Langford also considered more a 3-4 DE? Odrick is a pure DT IMO who was asked to cover at DE until the youngin got going. I expect some action at DE. We absolutely must find the right pieces.
     
  44. J Tes

    J Tes next generation

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    you're one hell of a good hindsight GM. Why don't you have some foresight and tell us all who Miami should pick this year? Majority of the mocks on here are way off base when it comes to value but at least they're putting their name to a prediction. You are just whining.... I mean playing GM with hindsight. Hard to screw that up
     
  45. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    ok, great... now tell us who that is....
     
  46. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Please keep us all in touch on who that supposed playmaker is. Inquiry minds want to know.
     
  47. iwastherein72

    iwastherein72 Well-Known Member

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    So you would not have taken an Adrian Peterson with the 12th pick?

    RBs like Daniel Thomas and Lamar Miller ARE a dime a dozen. RBs like Peterson are a PRICELESS commodity no matter how long you have them.

    Unfortunately this draft shapes up as exceedingly lackluster at almost ALL skill positions. When the Heisman winner is a FR it means the upperclassmen just ain't got it.

    If you want a concise summary of ireland' draft history, here it is: he consistently tries to draft linemen and def. front 7 players one round HIGHER than their value should call for... and consistently tries to draft skill position players one round LOWER than they should go for. With the predictable result that the skill position players always wind up on other teams' rosters and we have MEDIOCRITIES in the trenches. He is like the alternative universe of the rest of the NFL... doing the opposite of what the the GOOD gm's do.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2012
  48. MRojas4

    MRojas4 The Cheese Connoisseur Finheaven VIP

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    I just love at the Misi talk and no one gives Ireland credit for taking him over another LB everyone kicked and screamed for. What's his name? Oh yeah, Sergio Kindle. Who would of tho
     
  49. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan A True Fan

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    These type of arguments are so silly. San Diego traded up to 12. Why arent you knocking them for passing on JPP. You act like the dolphins were the only team who screwed up by not taking JPP. Im sure almost every team that didnt select him before he eventually came off the board wishes they wouldve drafted JPP. Id have to go back and look at the players taken, but obviously he has to be one of the best players taken in that entire draft.

    With these ridiculous arguments youre basically suggesting that if a GM dosent hit the exact best player available when its their turn to draft that they suck. Do you even realize how difficult it is to take the guy who winds up being the best player with each pick. It would never happen. A team is lucky to do that twice in a draft. Most of the time a team is lucky to do it once, even with their 1st round pick. Once you get outside of the top few picks in the first round, you cant expect to hit the best player. When Tom Brady was drafted, the best player in the entire draft wasnt selected until the 6th round. Therefore only New England selected the best player when it was their turn that year and it took them till round 6 to do it.

    Anybody who didnt take Gronkowski in the 2nd round that year goofed. Id have to look to double check, but Id bet Gronk was the best player taken in round 2. Its hard to match the best TE in the league. I guess that makes every GM in the game a total moron. Get real with this ****.

    And Dez Bryant............. you guys love some crack babies. Im still happy we didnt draft him.

    Also in 2010, Bill Parcells was calling the shots, not Ireland.

    If a guy drafts good players more often than bad ones then he has done a nice job. I cant kill someone for missing out on a specific player beyond a certain point unless he made a completely ridiculous selection. Now having the 1st overall selection you better take a real good player. If you dont get the best guy in the whole thing you should at least come close. And if your team needs a QB and you pass on one that turns out to be a great player while taking a POS LT, then its a huge problem.

    Finally, when your QB is Tom Brady and you select an offensive player, that players chances of success are drastically increased by the fact his QB is Tom Brady.
     
  50. fakespike

    fakespike Starter

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    Should have had Earl Thomas but that's not the point; if Ireland can't spot a game changing talent we are doomed. Remember that SD made that trade to take ryan Matthews, who as a fantasy owner, I can assure you is a bust: it goes both ways. I thought the trade was decent value and suited our rebuilding goals at the time, but both those picks were duds. We need a team leader now, Milliner, Te'o, Werner, Matthews etc. Someone to make turnovers hopefully.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2013

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