Too Bad We Don't Scrimmage With Bucs This Year...Jets-Bucs Game Observations

[ckparrothead]

Anyway guys I'm sure I am one of about a dozen people in the country who actually tuned into ESPN at 5am this morning and watched the Jets go up against the Bucs all the way across the world over in Tokyo Japan.

Concerning the title of the thread...

WHO THE FVCK IS WR CHARLES LEE!?!?

This guy impressed the HECK out of me in this game, and he didn't even make half the plays he could have. But he's got body, lots of speed (football speed, dont know what his 40 time is), the guy makes great physical catches, and his route running must be pretty good because he was getting open.

I don't know where Keenan McCardell was, but he wasn't playing. Keyshawn came out after the first series, and I don't remember seeing Joe Jurevicious in the game. Those three have solidified their spots as the top three receivers on the Bucs. Karl Williams has been with the Bucs forever, and he has special teams value...so he likely will have a spot. Jacquez Green was signed in the hopes that he can be Jon Gruden's "blue streak" a la James Jett (Gruden said this himself, he wants at least one guy who can stretch the field with blazing speed). Reggie Barlow is also with the Bucs and he also has special teams value.

If the Bucs only keep 5 WRs there's a pretty good chance Charles Lee will not be one of them.

This is why I wish the Bucs and Phins scrimmaged this year, because it would give us the added chance to check out Charles Lee, and if we like what we see then we could try and trade for him just like the Bucs did with OT Cornell Green last season. Far as I can tell Charles Lee is a 4th year WR who was drafted in the 7th round by the Packers.

Why was I impressed? Because with Keenan out, Joe Jurevicious absent (it looked like he was anyway), and with Keyshawn only playing the first series, this guy Charles Lee broke into the game on the first series against the Jets starting defense, and he made an absolute FOOL out of Aaron Beasley by running a great route and using his body and strength to pull in a ball right on Beasley's azzzzz baby. Beasley should have had the INT but Lee ripped that puppy right from the air and managed to plant his feet JUST inside the sidelines (on purpose too!). Then later, when the Bucs first team reached the goal line, Lee had a GREAT touchdown catch falling down but the refs overruled it called it incomplete...however had there been replay this would have been a very controversial call a la the Chambers non-TD against the Jets. Lee continued in the game getting open for sure-fire TDs, but he had Shawn King throwing to him after the first series and of course...he couldn't hit him.

Let me put it to you this way. I've seen our group of youngsters play...Sam Simmons, Kendall Newson, Robert Baker (those two saw them play in Europe too), Chris Jackson, etc...and barring what happens today against the Titans (I mean heck Simmons could look like the 2nd coming of Hines Ward when the cameras roll for all we know)...I would give a roster spot to Charles Lee. I was that impressed.

Other observations from the Jets game.

Know this, the Jets will probably be better than 9-7 this year. Sorry to say it. I know that the Jets suffered losses in the offseason, and those losses WILL hurt. But the Chad Pennington Jets are a completely different team than the Vinny Testeverde Jets. The Vinny Jets started out 1-2, the Pennington Jets finished up 8-5 with two of those losses coming in Pennington's first two games before he had a firm grip on his team.

For those of you who thought Pennington was a faker, a one season wonderkind, think again. He looked very very good against a very very tough Tampa D and yes...on the very first drive of the game with 1st string Jets O vs 1st string Jets D, Pennington drove the Jets 70+ yards for a touchdown.

Lamont Jordan started the game in place of Curtis Martin and he was going nowhere, Sapp wouldn't let him. But Pennington unleashed an aerial assault against the Bucs secondary (who was missing their best player Ronde Barber) and he utilized Curtis Conway to serve notice to the Bucs that they NEED to find themselves a decent safety to replace the departed super bowl MVP Dexter Jackson. On one play, the Bucs actually brought on a nickel corner blitz (seems awefully complicated for the first preseason game, don't ya think?) from the right side of the field where there were 2 receivers stacked up. You might think, ok Chad make a read and toss it to the side of the field where the corner just peeled off. But no, the Bucs rolled a safety up to cut off any of those receivers who decided to break their routes to help Chad. Mistake. Chad had safety Howell lined up on the left side against Curtis Conway one-on-one deeeep down the left sideline. Howell went for the interception and missed, Conway caught it and the play went for like 40 yards.

Curtis Conway is basically what we (or at least I) expected him to be. This was a guy that I originally wanted the Phins to sign over Derrius Thompson. Thankfully, Thompson has proved to be better than I originally thought. But Conway looks to be about as good as I expected. His major weakness, is health. So we'll see if he stays healthy, but with Pennington tossing the ball I expect that they aren't going to miss Laveraneous Coles TOO much so long as Conway is healthy.

I don't expect him to stay healthy though...and he's not going to make a lot of the difference-making plays that Coles did. And the Jets did get ripped in the offseason of quality players (they have Albert Johnson returning kickoffs! lol), so they won't be as good as the Pennington Jets of 2002.

But thats not saying much, it still could mean an 11-5 or 10-6 record.

(by the way the Bucs succeeded in nickel-and-diming the Jets defense to death and Charles Lee made some starting Jet corners look like real dumb@sses...bucs would have scored TD on first drive of game too if it weren't for controversial call on the Lee TD)

Back to the subject of the thread...we do play the Bucs in preseason. I would LOOOOOVE to see the Phins make an offer to the Bucs for Lee...like a 7th or 6th rounder.

 

[Disgustipate]

Good review, I didnt watch. But I think it takes a bit more then the first preseason game to label the Jets as a contender for the division. Gruden and Kiffen put about as much thought into stopping the Jets as Chester McGlockton puts into downing another 5 Big Macs.

 

[ckparrothead]

Well thanks for the compliment man, but I wasn't just taking into account what I saw in two series. I'm talkin about the fact that the Jets seem to be about the same team they were when Pennington was leading them to like a 7-2 record in the final 9 games. Now I know that won't work out the same, with Conway replacing Coles and the special teams hits they took (take note, they will lose at least one game due to a special teams gaffe or two) but still...what I was trying to point out is that saying the Jets will be worst than 2002 because of all the hits they took in the offseason is not the same as saying they'll be worst than 9-7.

Worst than 2002 could mean as much as 10-6 or 11-5 is what I'm sayin.

By the way I nearly spit up my drink when the ESPN guys started talking about the signing of big Chester McGlockton "about 375 pounds or so big boy" and one of those asinine dumb@sses be it Macguire or Theismann started talking about how McGlockton will come in and improve the rotation, and also be a good mentor for the young Dewayne Robertson to learn under.

My god I HOPE that the Jets ask McGlockton to be a mentor to Robertson. PLEASE! Robertson will be the fattest, laziest SOB in all of football.

One thing that was blazingly obvious in this game is that ESPN and ABC need to get Paul Macguire and Joe Theismann OFF THE AIR! Put Jimmy Kimmel on or something. They say the most asinine stuff I swear. On one play, with all the 2nd stringers in, Dewayne Robertson got double teamed in pass protection by a center-guard tandem, and he was completely stifled and held up. Shawn King then rolled out to the right and put Robertson back into the play. Macguire then goes on to point out how incredibly good Robertson is because he was over there lumbering toward Shawn King after King rolled to his right hand side. My god any 250 to 300 pounder could have done what Robertson did! He didn't do anything special whatsoever. The OLmen that double-teamed him even took it easy on him and they had him completely neutralized...King put Robertson back in the play by rolling out to within like 15 feet of Robertson so Dewayne just turned to his left and ran toward King thats all.

"King rolls out to the right here and who is the guy chasing him? Its Robertson. Now THATS speed"

FAAUUGGGHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. Robertson was only that far to the right because he had been pushed like 5 yards off the ball by the OL tandem.

BTW, Robertson really did not look that impressive. I can see why I believe it was Peter King, mentioned that Robertson didn't look to be the same guy in practice that was getting all that hype prior to the draft.

 

[MDFINFAN]

Thanks CK, I tried to get up and watch, but I fell back asleep. I'll be watching more of Lee tonight.

 

[ckparrothead]

Take a look at him. He let one or two balls go through his outstretched hands but you just had the feeling that he ALMOST had that...ya know, that feeling? Where you know this guy is all over the place making plays and you just want to see him get more and more chances...with a GOOD quarterback throwing to him. He had Brett Favre up in Packerland, but maybe he wasn't ready yet.

Ya know, he wouldn't be the first fourth year player we see come from complete obscurity to become a great playmaker. I believe we've got one under contract ourselves, goes by the name Derrius Thompson, ya know that guy thats been startin on the other side of Chambers and catchin all those deep passes lately? The dude with the big arms...

heh.

 

[MDFINFAN]

I hear ya, On the Jets, you say the 1st Team looked good on O, you didn't say too much about their D except that Lee was making them look bad, what about their run D..will Ricky be looking at 150 yards, and how about their pass rush, did Brad have all day?

 

[akfinfan]

I did see this game, and that 47 yard pass to Conway should have been intercepted, it was underthrown and if the guy playing defense was a starter it would have been picked off. He had perfect position to make the play but but paid too much attention to the WR instead of where he was between the WR and the ball. Either way it was a 47 yard pass, and it made Chad look good, BUT Preseason games don't mean didley squat, and $$ Says the Jets won't be better than 9-7, because with the exception of the PATS everyone else(Bills and Dolphins) got much better acqusitions this offseason, and the Jets lost some, especially with Coles and J.Evans. We'll see come September.

 

[ckparrothead]

Yeah sorry I didn't include a real review of the Jets.

Brad had allllll day long to pass that rock. I think Abraham might not have played or somethin. Ellis did get into the backfield once but even Brad Johnson was able to shake him. I took special note of the fact that the Bucs offensive line was giving Brad a lot of time to pass the ball. He was giving the old nickel and dime bit. Jets look to be softest on D over the middle. Funny part about Lee's first catch is Beasley did have good coverage on the man, but Lee plucked it from the air and muscled it away from Beasley all Sam Madison style (except reversed...madison plucked it from harrison). The Jets were definitely allowing Pittman and Alstott to look good running on them too.

Like I said, the Bucs drove all the way to the goal line, and should have had a TD except a ref overruled the Lee touchdown catch and said it was bobbled. Remember that rule we came across with Chambers against the Jets where they said that even if you have possession while you get two feet down in-bounds, if the ball bobbles out of your hands when you hit the ground out of bounds then it is not a catch? (one of the worst and stupidest rules in all of football) Well this would have been along those lines. Lee caught and bobbled it, but secured the ball by the time he sled chest first onto the border of the endzone and the sideline, with his feet draggin...which means possession, but by the time he slid allll the way out of bounds and turned over onto his back, the ball somehow slid out of his hands maybe cuz he was balancing himself or somethin. So they ruled it no-catch, and replay might even have upheld that call but it would have been a judgement call and if they didn't call it a TD it would have been shaiza.

Macguire and Theismann spent a lot of time unduly kissing Shawn King's butt too. Since when did King all the sudden become a good player? The guy still might not make the team still! They've got Jim Miller and Chris Simms and they probably won't keep 4.

 

[ckparrothead]

Dude if Chad Pennington had been starting all year long last year there's no doubt in my mind the Jets would have been like 11-5 or maybe even 12-4. Don't let our homerism blind you.

So saying the Jets have gotten worst this season because of the departures of Randy Thomas, Laveraneous Coles, and Chad Morton...still leaves them open for a good 10-6 or somethin.

And the way this division beats on each other, 10-6 could be a division title. We'll see man, it will be fun to watch but like it or not ALL FOUR of the teams in this division are contenders for the division title.

The Phins because our personnel is the best.

The Bills because they've got what should be a vastly improved D (plus offensive personnel is still pretty top notch).

The Pats because they went 9-7, didn't lose anyone important, and only gained a bunch of personnel on D.

And the Jets because like it or not when Pennington was in the game they were already the best team in the division. They may have taken hits, but how much will those hits drag them down to the rest of the group?

Overall Phins should be favorites because Jay Fiedler when healthy led the team to a 7-3 record...so its possible that the Jay Fiedler Phins were as good or better than the Pennington Jets. But while the health of Fiedler has a past that calls his 2003 health into question, Pennington has never suffered from injury problems (in his short-lived time as starter, nor as backup).

 

[P4E]

Originally posted by ckparrothead
On one play, with all the 2nd stringers in, Dewayne Robertson got double teamed in pass protection by a center-guard tandem, and he was completely stifled and held up. Shawn King then rolled out to the right and put Robertson back into the play. Macguire then goes on to point out how incredibly good Robertson is because he was over there lumbering toward Shawn King after King rolled to his right hand side. My god any 250 to 300 pounder could have done what Robertson did! He didn't do anything special whatsoever. The OLmen that double-teamed him even took it easy on him and they had him completely neutralized...King put Robertson back in the play by rolling out to within like 15 feet of Robertson so Dewayne just turned to his left and ran toward King thats all.

"King rolls out to the right here and who is the guy chasing him? Its Robertson. Now THATS speed"

FAAUUGGGHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. Robertson was only that far to the right because he had been pushed like 5 yards off the ball by the OL tandem.

:rofl:

Man, CK.... I watched that same thing... and the way they were straining to make some kind of God out of Robertson was PAINFULLY embarrassing for them -- even for Robertson. lmfao!

I guess it was Thiesmann offering up the superlative cr*p... and exactly as he's talking this SH*T, everyone watching what's on screen is seeing this fat boy saying, "Duh, which way did he go???", and then doing a half-a**ed waltz over to no closer than 15 feet when the ball was released!

Can you say "Not a factor"?

:rofl:

 

[Jeep]

I was one of the dozen that stayed awake for the first two series.. I really didnt care that much about TB, but since CK is from the area, I am sure he paid more attention..


What I noticed, primarilly against the TB defense was 1) NYJ could not run if theirs depended on it.. 2) their passing game looked pretty sharp and being a division foe, that bothers me..

I have faith in our secondary, but even the best tandem in the league is subjected to getting burned, so that has me a little concerned..

The Jet defense really didnt impress me, but they did hold TB to a field goal..


Over all, I think the fish is still a better team.. but as the saying goes.. its still TC/Preseason...

 

[rafael]

I disagree CK. Pennington is special and that makes the Jets a dangerous team, but their run D is horrible. That weak middle will prevent them from being better than a 9-7 team especially with 4 games against RW and Travis Henry.

 

[Dolfan984]

Jets depth is crap.

 

[ckparrothead]

Let me put it to you this way. I've seen our group of youngsters play...Sam Simmons, Kendall Newson, Robert Baker (those two saw them play in Europe too), Chris Jackson, etc...and barring what happens today against the Titans (I mean heck Simmons could look like the 2nd coming of Hines Ward when the cameras roll for all we know)...I would give a roster spot to Charles Lee. I was that impressed.

Insert foot in mouth. Sam Simmons did end up looking like the second coming of Hines Ward. My god Simmons was hot today.

If a year on the practice squad going up against Surtain and Madison does THIS to you...hurry up and cut JR Tolver NOW. Put him on the practice squad and within a year we've got a pro bowler!

 

[J-E-T-S]

ckparrothead, I have an infinite amount of respect for you, as you can tell things like it is, unlike many of your counterparts and mine as well. Many Fin fans feel the Jets have no shot, and the Fins are unstoppable, while many Jet fans think that Chad is Joe Montana, and the Fins will automatically choke every year. All I'm saying is that I'm impressed with your lack of blatant bias.