Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DKphin, Oct 10, 2012.
Read more at http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2012/...-more-and-more-each-week/?PfBCGuffA2ZS3YF5.99
Still have to do something with the pick we got...preferably someone better than Pat White.
Or any of our picks that didnt make the team or see the field.
Don't know how credible of an assessment that is.
I didn't watch the game but...
They just played an incredible game and won a game that NO ONE thought they could win.
Curious if anyone here saw it. What did you think of our former corner, the 'Bookworm' . :chuckle:
Vontae was inactive.
That's hilarious, how pathetic.
Where are all the Ireland protesters now?
Well it was for a injury :lol:
That is why they won. LOL.
Looks like everyone on this board including myself was wrong, and Ireland was right. Getting a 2nd round pick and conditional 6th rounder was a steal for Vontae Davis.
This was a move I actually applauded Ireland on, one of the few. A couple of us, WV included, tried to tell you this guy was highly over rated and that Nolan did a nice job covering his weak *** play. Not one to say I told you so but............:up:
Vontae has the talent to be one of the top players in the league. He's wasting that talent by being lazy and his next contract will absolutely show that.
Remember he was a 1st round pick back before the rookie wage scale went into effect. He made a ton on his 1st contract and should be set. That could be part of his lack of motivation.
whoa there...I personally thought vonte was better than smith but I didnt think either of them were good enough to net you a 2nd rounder...it was a good trade for us and A LOT of us knew it...
You can go back to the Vontae Davis threads.....there were very few people who stood up for the trade. Sorry, it doesnt look like you were one of them.
Now we just have to hope that Ireland or whoever replaces him makes good use of that pick, and that second 3rd rounder they got for Marshall. The first one was already a waste. I already forgot that garbage tight end that Sherman wanted to cut on Hard Knocks' name.
He is PFF's lowest rated CB in the NFL (out of 156)!!!! Also, he is the worst CB in the league as far as opposing QB rating when thrown to!!
Id love it if someone found this clip...............
I noticed no one even talked about it on here. But, after Vontae got beat in the first week by Alshon Jeffery for that TD(that was mentioned) he had ran all the way back to the wall. As he turned around and tried to start walking back, he trips and falls flat on his face. Hillarious. I think he may have tripped on the netting for the FGs or something, Im not sure because I only saw it a couple of times. Would like to see it again.
It pretty much sums up Vontae.
I liked the trade then, and I like it now. This team didn't need unprepared, unmotivated and immature players,
and his and Smiths contracts are coming up. It's doubtful we could've kept both, so at least we got something for him.
At the time, I thought this was a horrible trade. I will admit, I was wrong.
I'm always in the wait and see camp. And I'm not through waiting on this one, not by a longshot. But I'll always give our players and decision-makers the benefit of the doubt.
Was supportive of the trade. Culture is a huge thing in the NFL. People always overlook it, but we had a few players who weren't getting on board. Vontae seems like a good guy, but he's always had concentration issues. If he played up to his physical tools in college, he'd have been a top-10 pick; if he did so in the NFL, he'd be an All Pro. You don't want two of your best players to be underachievers. It was a big deal to move Marshall and Davis - that we got 2 3rd's and a 2nd out of them, well, that's gravy.
Looks great now, but you have to question, how would he have played here? Maybe Coyle would have gotten more out of him
Not everyone, I and quite a few others thought it was a good trade from the get go
Well, everyone is different. He might be taking his brother getting killed a little harder than his brother. You could see from his "call my grandma" statement that he is a little dependent. Not saying it's an excuse for his play but some people deal with things differently. Maybe, maybe not, but maybe one day it will click for him. Or not.
Vontae has all the talent in the world, just a poor work ethic. During their 2nd year, Vontae was clearly better than Smith. Their rookie year was similar they just struggled at different aspects of the game.
I think something people don't give Smith enough credit for is during their 2nd year, he really struggled in camp and preseason and worked his *** off to get better. Smith has also gone from a horrible tackler to solid. Vontae just seemed content with where he was at.
You didn't hear me cry when his dumbass was shipped out. Admit the mistake and cut your loses, Jeff did exactly that.
You mean the guy who drafted him in the first round? That Jeff Ireland?
The tide has turned on Vontae. He prefers to continue to play on his talent alone and not work at his craft. Whereas Sean Smith has seemingly turned his NFL career around by working hard to improve his craft. I was a big fan of Vontae, and actually had bought his jersey, but, was not bothered by the trade that sent him out of Miami. Players come and go in this business and Vontae made his choice as to where he was taking his career. I've never really been a Sean Smith fan up until this season. Smith has earned my respect and Davis lost me has a fan. It's tragic in how a player like Davis never saw the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm just glad Ireland had the guts to make the call and trade him. At this point it really doesn't matter were that #2 pick from Indy falls as long as Davis isn't here to screw things up, especially when the team seems to be gelling like they are.
Not everyone hated the trade. Did I think Davis would be the #2 worst CB in the league with regards to QB rating allowed? (He's at 155.x, by the way) after playing 3 games? No. Do I think it hurts that he's in a brand new system? Hell yes.
Do I think he's better than Sean Smith? Nope. He's way too inconsistent. We brought in a guy just like him in Richard Marshall. Flashes great plays. Allows big ones at times. Physical, press cover corner. AND we got a 2nd round pick for the investment. Davis just simply did not develop. The fact that Coyle signed off on this tells you all you need to know. The guy is a secondary guru who turns coal into diamonds everywhere he goes.
When most GMs take a risk on a guy who has the talent to be a world pro and lose, they are out a 1st round pick.
Miami lost 14-15 spots in the draft. That ain't bad. Maybe it's because I've been a poker player for so long but I see the value here.
Well thats not what you said when it happened. In fact you didnt say anything. So dont say you stood up for the trade when you didnt. Anyways, while everyone wants to say now that they were all for the trade, go read the major threads regading the trade at the time it happened - alomost nobody was for the trade. Go look it up. I swear some people's memories are worse than a politician's around here.
talent wise, Vontae was worth the risk. A big issue people had with Ireland and Parcells drafts were they were conservative picks. The early return on Vontae wasn't bad, but much like many players before him, he felt his talent was enough to get by in the NFL. Look at Vontae's tangibles, if he put the effort in he'd be a top 5 CB, maybe even the best in the league. So far, he hasn't had that drive to get better.
Besides, most were calling for us to draft Darius Butler that year.
Yep I agree with the Vontae pick too. He was top 10 talent that fell to pick #25 because of attitude and work ethic. It was worth the risk of getting a top CB at #25, and it was hardly a conservative pick. Vontae couldn't dedicate himself like he was expected to, and we moved on. Its happenes all the time in the NFL.
I am one to say I was happy he was gone, we lost a starting CB but he was a bum. Smith is now shining and although Marshall is struggling I feel like we are better, plus we got a 2nd rd pick! We can draft his replacement as this draft class has a few good CBs. I am happy that cancer is off the team.
I have no problem with getting rid of Davis, i buried the guy in many posts. But am not going to give the guy who spent a first rd pick on him, credit for getting less for him now.
ireland still drafted him with a 1st, getting a mid to high 2nd for him... how is that winning?
Well, he helped us win some games over 3 years. Winning isn't free. You have to pay something.
A mid to high 2nd for him... a year before his contract is up.
I was pretty conflicted about the trade (because even though Vontae wasn't great, he had the physical tools and I thought he'd improve). Not too upset about it now though.
You see value in trading a 1st round pick for a 2nd several years later? I don't. I will give him credit for cutting his losses though.
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Not 'everyone' agreed with you. I personally thought, since he showed up out of shape to camp and then looked lazy on Hard Knocks, thought the move was worth it. You don't go into work, with a new boss in town, fat and slow. With Philbin preaching 'professionalism' it was a matter of time before a player had to become a example. And that example was Vontae. Getting a 2nd for him was a good move by Ireland.
In the long run, Vontae will bounce back, IMO. But I do believe this season might be shot for him. His first few games in INDY were terrible. One of which was being matched up against Marshall and being abused all day.
I was initially really disappointed when we traded Vontae. I thought during training camp he was being left out as a wake up call to get up to speed and I hoped it would work. The guy has talent. Obviously it wasn't getting through and he was shipped out and the trade did make sense. I'd still not say he is a liability etc based on his start in Indy as that's just 4 games whereas he has 3 pretty good seasons here.
There have been many threads since this trade happened, where people have made discussion points on this trade. Just because it didn't happen in what you call the 'major threads' doesn't mean it wasn't said. Don't sit here and try to re write history as you see it.
Well I specifically said "when the trade happened", as in people's initial reaction. Why cant people differentiate between an initial reaction and hindisight a month later? Of course we all agree it was a good trade now, or even a few weeks after, but I was contrasting everyones initial reaction to a month later. I read this forum several times a day. Ive gone back and read the initial reaction threads, and I know what was in there. Go look it up if you dont believe me.
And you werent posting anywhere near when the trade happened, but I guess yuo are going to tell me too that you were here saying it was a good trade from very first day too?
I turned off FH for awhile. It helps sometimes. And when I started posting again, I was on board with it. When it happened, I was on board with it. You don't show up to your job, with a new coach fat and slow. PERIOD. When you do, you show no respect to the person coming in to do their job. I have made this point, several times in several threads. Just because I wasn't here posting for you, doesn't mean it wasn't felt/said.
This offseason, the chicken littles were running rampant here. Its why you take a break from this place. When I did post, I said it several times. And I stand by it. I don't follow the echo chamber here, never have never will.
---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------
My initial reaction, was as it is today. I don't struggle with reading comprehension.
Well if you didnt originally post about the Vontae trade then I wasnt talking about you. I am sure there are man many many people who were ok with the trade when it happened, but I was specifically talking about the posters in this community and their initial reactions. If you didnt post then, I wasnt talking about you. Simple as that.
Cant argue with this statement. I'm usually the one going against the grain here. Probably time for me to vacation from this site too.
Vontae who. Sean Smith clearly outperforms him on the reg
Good move Ireland.
I see value in realizing that a play didn't develop and being able to extract a 2nd round pick out of him. That's what matters. Yes, in a perfect world, we don't miss with that 1st rounder but considering the past... I'd take it. We didn't get a pick for goddamn Jason Allen
I found my very first post when I reacted. I was political haha. I said "if Coyle said okay then Davis must be done. Wow. Great value, too"