Universal Draft on the Sun Sentinel Week 6 - Combine News & Nolan's Defense

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by ckparrothead, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/spo...log/2010/03/analyzing_the_draft_week_6_1.html

    Simon takes on position by position Combine developments, along with Miami meetings.

    Then I follow up with a look at how Nolan's defense worked in Denver, and what it might mean for Karlos Dansby as a potential free agent signee, and what jobs we might be able to fill via the draft.

    Incidentally, and this isn't in the article, but I fully believe that Mike Nolan would be the driving force behind Miami's (rumored) pending contract offer to Antrel Rolle. I focused mostly on the use of linebackers in Nolan's scheme, but one thing is clear via Nolan's history. He wants a crafty veteran free safety. I don't think Miami currently has the cog he wants there and I'm sure he wishes, even though it would have made his life harder last year, that Miami had kept Renaldo Hill.
     
  2. moley6969

    moley6969 Active Member

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    another great indepth analysis !!!!!!!

    i have read every weeks it great!
     
  3. AllFinsAllDay

    AllFinsAllDay A True Fan

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    Execellent breakdown I especially liked the idea of spending 12 on another position, and filling the other roles.
     
  4. Aqua and Orange

    Aqua and Orange Poster With A Porpoise Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Wow. I'm only halfway through and must say it is an awesome read. As always you guys do great work, CK. Give my best to Simon.
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Will do my man.
     
  6. thejetssuck

    thejetssuck Seasoned Veteran

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    Hats off to you and Simon!! Great read!
     
  7. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Spiller
     
  8. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod The Oracle

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    Great read. :up:
     
  9. RichmondWeb

    RichmondWeb Greetings from Portlandia Finheaven VIP

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    How would Weatherspoon fit in Nolan's system?
     
  10. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    E. Thomas/ E. Berry
    J. Hughes/ J. Worilds
    B. Spikes

    That would be a very fine 1st three rounds.
     
  11. skipp2myloo13

    skipp2myloo13 Rookie

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    Earl Thomas, Cam Thomas, Solb. And Dansby. But i love yours as well ^
     
  12. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    Outstanding read!!!!!

    While reading (might have gotten wrong lol), one of biggest differences to PP defense I found was the SOLB. In PP 1st year he had Matt Roth and this year JT, who was asked to put on weight. They pencilled in Roth for the starting job before his injury and it seem PP wanted a rush stop 1st pass rush 2nd SOLB, while Nolan wants more of a, is it fair to say a Julian Peterson, finesse type of guy? I can see, why they now consider Dansby for that position.

    Superb analysis, I loved it
     
  13. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    I would piss in my pants with excitement
     
  14. PhinsTD

    PhinsTD Phins fanatic

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    That was quite possibly the most informative article I've ever read. The part about Nolan's defense that is. Dan Williams has been my guy at 12, but watching look stiff, and then his inconsistent motor on tape, I've changed my mind.

    My main problem with Earl Thomas was his weight/strength. He really answered those questions and moved up with me. I'd love Thomas/Worilds/Spikes or Edds in some form. The WR I most want later on if we wait is Blair White, though is a lot like Hartline.

    Parcells has always developed NT's later in the draft.

    CK, what are your thoughts on Long from Louisville and Harbor from Missouri State. Any of those guys a prospect for one of the 6th rounders, in addition to an OL'man?
     
  15. SR 7

    SR 7 A True Fan

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    I'd go with Graham or Spoon round 1 than Worilds or Graham/PITTA (TE) round 2 and a NT in round 3.
     
  16. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    That SOLB spot would JT be considered. I know he played Safety when he was young and is most def. suited to passrush but what about covering TE....i not sure what you think?
     
  17. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    it was a nice read....like the info about the defence but we still need a WR

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  18. Mr. Magoo

    Mr. Magoo Ayatollah of rock and rolla

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    The Dolphins went into the season with Cover 4 personnel but in practice didn't really seem to play it very much. In fact, what it looked like to me is they ended up playing a lot of single high safety with Sean Smith in up-man coverage and Vontae in off zone, with the linebackers rolling that way in underneath zones (they seemed to do less of this as the season went on, but maybe that's just my imagination). Now I understand this sort of coverage goes to both corners' strengths. Smith still has trouble driving routes when he plays off and we all saw Vontae's disturbing tendency to lose his balance, fall down or mis-play the ball in man to man last year.

    They also seemed to start the season with Wilson at FS and Bell at SS and I noticed down the stretch a lot of plays where they switched this up when they were both in the game, which seemed to improve the play of both. I've always thought Bell should be playing FS anyway. He's got the instincts and the speed. When Clemons would come in he always played FS that I could see. Bell moved back to SS in these situations, which were almost always early downs.

    Anyhow, I'm not sure if these were trends or just odd occurrences.

    Either way, it seems clear that Nolan does things differently. His use of Hill, who's better in coverage than in run support, seems to bear this out. I'd also wager that in Nolan's system we also won't see safeties leading the team in tackles.

    You obviously know a lot more than this than I do. Is Nolan's tendency to play a lot more cover 2, safeties back? I know he's a pressure guy, which seems to suggest more of a rush 5, drop 6 in zone coverage configuration. Smith still doesn't seem comfortable in zone, so you've got to wonder what that's going to do to him.

    Sheesh. What a long offseason! So many questions!
     
  19. Dogbone34

    Dogbone34 cowboy surfer

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    i thought McClain would be our guy at #12. I also like Spiller but I'm hoping we end up with Sean Weatherspoon. That dude's a football player.
     
  20. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i'm well aware that every prospect has warts but spoon did have some stiffness in pass rush drills yesterday...

    i think he's a little bit overrated to be honest...he's not a top 20 pick to me
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I have a real nagging suspicion about him. If Miami were interested in Dustin Keller, were interested in Percy Harvin, are interested in Dorin Dickerson and Dexter McCluster, they want guys that present mismatch opportunities and change the ways that defenses face the team. C.J. Spiller does that too.

    I said this before but I think it's a 50/50 chance Ronnie ends up traded.
     
  22. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    for a 2nd round pick i'd trade ronnie in a heartbeat...the rb crop is deep in this draft...we can get a good one if we traded ronnie who may not spend half the season on ir every year...

    my choice ben tate auburn...love him

    unless spiller was in play
     
  23. Mr. Magoo

    Mr. Magoo Ayatollah of rock and rolla

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    Chargers would be a logical partner. They generally like to build through the draft (what was it, like 20 of their 22 starters were acquired through the draft?), but Ryan Matthews might be moving away from their grasp at the bottom of round 1, and even he is almost totally unproven in the passing game.
     
  24. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    you're not getting a 1st for ronnie brown...not happening

    a mid to late 2nd would be the best i can see...
     
  25. Mr. Magoo

    Mr. Magoo Ayatollah of rock and rolla

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    No, I meant for their second. I agree, no way we get anyone's first.
     
  26. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i can see that...and i'd either take ben tate there or hope he fell to pick #74...i know sparano LOVED his pass pro in 1 on 1 drills at the senior bowl...
     
  27. Mr. Magoo

    Mr. Magoo Ayatollah of rock and rolla

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    The worry I think with trading Ronnie is what it does to Ricky. He very publicly and vocally was upset when Ronnie got hurt. Not just because he and Ronnie are friends, but because he doesn't want the spotlight or the workload that goes with being the #1. He also very noticeably wore down once he got the main job. By the Texans and Steelers games he didn't have much left.

    I agree with everyone about Tate. He's one of those guys who doesn't really stand out in one area but does everything well enough to get on the field and be productive. We always sort of expect Auburn running backs to be elite but Auburn really hasn't been the same the last few years and the offensive line wasn't great in the games I saw.

    But I don't think, whatever you think of Tate, he's going to step in and let Ricky stay in his preferred #2 spot. I guess I just worry the guy will up and retire rather than face a full season as the top guy. I know he's got like three or four women he has to pay child support to but still, it's a concern.
     
  28. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    what's up with brandon grahams arms now being listed at 2 inches longer than they were at the senior bowl??? is the new listed measurement of 32 inches plus accurate??? cause those 30 inch arms were the only concerns i had at the nfl level...

    all i can say is i hope we can land dansby friday...we need him bad and this ilb group in the draft is very thin imo...

    if we do get dansby i think i'm leaning with brandon graham now at pick #12...i love everson griffen but i just don't think i can trust him like i know i can brandon graham and graham does seem to fit the mike nolan defensive breakdown better...

    i also think graham will be on the board at pick #12...i just wish i could have seen him in lb drills at the combine...
     
  29. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    rickys leaving next year anyways...if he doesn't want to play if ronnie is dealt then he can leave...he's not gonna help us long term anyways...

    if ricky doesn't want to be part of the rotation we could roll with tate or whoever we draft hilliard and cobbs...rb is one of the easiest positions to come in and contribute right away and we know tate's pass pro is nfl ready so we can trust him to pick up blitzes and keep henne clean...unlike so many of these other draft rbs...

    i think ricky would stick it out 1 more year even if ronnie was dealt...that's my feeling...dude needs money
     
  30. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    I cant even see us getting a 2nd for Ronnie
     
  31. Mr. Magoo

    Mr. Magoo Ayatollah of rock and rolla

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    Maybe he stays. In fact, he probably does. But I don't think you can brush off so easily the possibility of losing your top 2 running backs. Hilliard looked good in limited duty and Tate is an underrated guy assuming you can get him but that's still a very significant drop off from Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams, particularly since in this particular example we're not talking about adding much to the passing game.

    For a mid to late second I still think I'd do it. But I'd make sure to take Ricky's temperature on it beforehand. The idea of a running team going into the season with Lex Hilliard, Ben Tate and Patrick Cobbs is frankly a frightening one.
     
  32. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    well then you shouldn't use a 2nd round pick on a rb especially if you're afraid to give him the rock...

    i'd rather give the ball to a rookie rb than a rookie qb or many other positions...it's just not as difficult a transition as other positions as long as you can trust the guy to not get your qb killed in pass pro...

    if i'm taking a rb with high pick i expect him to contribute in short order...
     
  33. jwong

    jwong FinHeaven VIP

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    I agree as ,much as I love Ronnie, I would not mind drafting Spiller then trading Ronnie to say the Chargers whom are left with Michael Bennett and Jacob Hester at the RB position. Could we possibly get their late first for Ronnie? The chargers are trying to win now, we have a trade history with them and if they gave up a 2nd for Chambers they might as well give a late first for Ronnie, right?

    BTW great work on the sunsentinel CK!
     
  34. footsteps falco

    footsteps falco heart..

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    great read thanks mucho
     
  35. Aqua and Orange

    Aqua and Orange Poster With A Porpoise Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I do not see Ireland and Sparano drafting a RB 1st overall considering Ricky and Ronnie had us near the top of the league in rushing all last year.

    This is NOT because drafting Spiller wouldn't be a smart thing for our team's future (I think it could be a very smart idea that would pay dividends for our franchise for years to come), but the fact is that after a 7-9 finish many are saying this is a critical moment in the futures of Sparano and Ireland with the Dolphins. I think in their minds a successful season next year saves their jobs, while a successful season 2 or 3 years down the road gets the team a great chance with a different coaching staff and infrastructure. Thus, they plug the holes their team has now and they roll the dice that their record is better next year.

    I know what I said isn't popular, but I think hearing from the key members of the coaching staff that this next year is a "put up or shut up" year means that BPA could go out the window come draft day and fits for this current team could rise to the top.
     
  36. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    Does anyone think that we could be interested in Dickerson as a WR prospect? That size and speed could be great there.
     
  37. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    So, let's say we sign Dansby and pick up Hughes in the 2nd.

    In this scenario, things would look something like this:

    3-4 WOLB: J. Hughes
    3-4 WILB: Crowder/player to be drafted
    3-4 SILB: Crowder/player to be drafted
    3-4 SOLB: Dansby
    2-4 WOLB: C. Wake
    2-4 WILB: coverage LB to be drafted
    2-4 SILB: Dansby
    2-4 SOLB: J. Hughes

    . . .

    That's the idea, yeah? I love the idea of specialized players. There are few players like P. Willis, but by rotating, you can get a guy that's about as good in run support and another that's about as good in coverage.
     
  38. 52CANES

    52CANES Well-Known Member

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    Or Ronnie may leave next year for nothing in return.
     
  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    This is why I tried to say to take the 30 inch arms thing with a grain of salt until they're confirmed at the Combine. It wouldn't be the first time I saw a guy's arms or hands mismeasured at the Senior Bowl and refuted at the Combine. Also, I mean when we're talking about an OLB position it's just not as important anyway. Clay Matthews' arms were only 32 inches. It's just not as big a deal for that spot as it is for let's say a left tackle or a defensive end.

    I'm right there with you. I do wonder between Miami's having interviewed him and between his running a 4.72 at the Combine...maybe Derrick Morgan is back in the mix after all? He doesn't scream "linebacker!" at me like I would think Mike Nolan would want...but, you know, it's entirely possible I'm just wrong. It's been known to happen, frequently. LOL.
     
  40. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    yeah the derrick morgan running a solid # and the fact that we interviewed him also makes me wonder if he's in play...

    wasn't it you guys who confirmed that last year each and every one of our picks we met with in some capacity other than just watching them workout???

    has brandon graham been contacted by our front office...everson griffen...anybody else in that pick #12 consideration grouping???

    i saw we met with dez bryant...if he gets to #12 (i doubt it now also) i think he's a target...too much talent not to be

    here's the other question...what's the comfort level on trading back say 5 slots from #12 and still having brandon graham on the board??? seems like a risky proposition to me...although we sure could use the additional pick/picks

    it's very possible to me though that 3 years from now everson griffen may be the best of the lb crop bunch...he's so darn talented
     
  41. FinaticalOne

    FinaticalOne DieHard FinFan 4 Life

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    I think you are missing someone...

    Hey CK, always enjoy reading your posts/articles, but there is one thing that jumped out at me.

    In your running backs analysis, you left out one who I thought was one of the biggest intrigues in this year's draft. You mentioned runners impressing in Indy such as, CJ Spiller, Jahvid Best, LeGarrette Blount, Anthony Dixon, Jon Dwyer, Toby Gerhart, Montario Hardesty, Ryan Matthews, Dexter McCluster and Joe McKnight. Is there a reason why you left Ben Tate out of your analysis? I think he is going to be an absolute asset to any team. After his Combine performance, he is one of the biggest, strongest, and fastest RB in this year's draft class. And during the Senior Bowl week, he proved to be the best blocker of all the running backs, which would make him a player capable of playing all three downs.

    Tate actually collectively outperformed all of the aforementioned prospects. So I am curious, why not mention Tate?
     
  42. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Talk to Simon.

    I'm also high on Ben Tate. But there are a lot of reasons to like guys like C.J. Spiller, Ryan Matthews, Anhony Dixon, Jahvid Best and Toby Gerhart above him.

    On my board I have Tate #6 behind those five, grouped in the 3rd round along with Monterrio Hardesty (who immediately follows Tate) and Jonathan Dwyer (who pulls up the rear of this grouping). Then I have guys like LeGarrette Blount and Joe McKnight in the 5th round.
     
  43. JAYROD305

    JAYROD305 Well-Known Member

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    earl thomas or eric berry works fine with me 2 real good ballhawking safeties both have great skills we would be real lucky to get 1 of those 2 guys
     
  44. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i have tate 4th followed by anthony dixon mccluster hardesty gerhardt dwyer

    i have spiller matthews and best all going before the late 2nd round thus they're not listed and tate is...

    my only gripe with dixon is that he struggled for my eyes in 1 on 1 pass pro drills at the senior bowl...it looked like he tried to use his arms too much and did not have his feet under him all that well...

    i love him as a downhill runner though...hardesty would be higher if he wasn't so darn injury prone...

    dixon plays faster than he timed and you could see in combine drills there's a suddenness about him that some of the other backs lack...i'm not so sure that gerhardt plays as fast as he ran...
     
  45. ROADRUNNER

    ROADRUNNER FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    not bad boys b+..............only messing good read keep up the good work.
     
  46. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Similar to Shonn Greene a year ago but I like Dixon's instincts for getting north-south better than I liked Greene's.
     
  47. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Wow!

    Really good stuff guys.

    I just got my mojo back on for football.
     

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