Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SkapePhin, Jan 6, 2018.
Urlacher isn't getting in this yr. Nice of him to acknowledge Zach, tho.
This is an uninspiring HOF finalist list IMO
All-star players on an average defense tend to get overlooked. Zack Thomas didn't get the sexy stats like Jason taylor did (sacks).
Looking back, with players like Jason, Zack, Surtain, and Madison in their prime, I can't believe the defense wasn't awesome.
The defense was pretty awesome. Just not in December or January.
Man I don't think you are remembering this correctly. Our defense was lights out with those guys until 2004. The issue was always the offense from play calling, poor personnel and a limited QB in Jay Feidler.
He was a frumpy quiet guy that went about his business. If he played for say the Cowboys or Giants he'd an eventual lock. Zach is probably the 2nd best mlb of his era (behind Ray Lewis), i think that's deserving of the HoF.
That 2002-2003 team was one of the best Dolphins teams ever in my opinion. It had the NFL leading rusher and NFL leader in sacks and they still missed the playoffs. Wannstedt wasted a ton of Defensive talent that Jimmy Johnson accumulated with his insistence on Jay Fiedler.
Had they drafted Drew Brees in 2001 instead of Jamar Fletcher like everyone thought they would things might have been different.
The 11 point choke in the final 3 min in the last game against NE was one of the worst losses in franchise history. And it was all on horrible coaching. Dumbstadt.
And on those defenses that we had the actually leader was Trace Armstrong. He was actually the leader of the whole team. We just didn't have the QB
I know Miami has a lot of great players play for the organization. I have been a fan since 1970. Zach is my all time favorite for how he played the game that he was never supposed to see the field due to his limited measurables.The thing they couldn't measure with Zach was his heart and drive to succeed.
Look at how many All-Pro selections (first and second team, but first team especially) Zach Thomas has on his resume. Then compare that against the resumes of a lot of other guys who are already in the Hall of Fame. Then consider that he played during the same era as Ray Lewis, at the same position.
He should be in the Hall already.
God to have Drew Brees!! Instead of Fletcher who was a really good zone CB in college which worked perfectly in our man to man system.
Also credit to Jimmy Johnson, not just for drafting him but after signing Jack Del Rio in free agency he just cut him and named ZT the starter and man that paid off but you never heard people talk about that. JJ gave him a real chance and he didn't care who the veteran was. If you could play he'd start you.
It's a shame he may not ever get in..
He was so good, like Wanny said..A ton of 1st team All Pros with the "best ever" Ray Lewis..
So exactly true. Zach is one of my favorite Dolphins of all time. The consummate professional and always the most prepared player on the field. I remember Peyton Manning discussing how Zach always new the playcall, no matter how many changes he made on the line. When Manning points you out as the main reason he struggled to beat the Dolphins in regular season matchups, that speaks volumes about the quality of player you are. He may never get in due to his size, but to me, he epitomizes exactly what kind of player the Hall of Fame should be filled with.
Nice post bro!
I agree but can’t place the blame on wannstedt because Fiedler was trash. There were no better options at the time. It was Jimmys philosophy that we can win with a game manager anyway. In hindsight, that was a mistake
Zack is one of my all time favorites! I still laugh when I think of his farewell speech. He started crying and had nothing to wipe his tears until his wife (I believe) handed him one of those old style baby diapers. That was a funny moment, but it didn't phase him, he kept on, would wipe away those tears as needed, and finished his speech with aplomb. That sort of summed up his career. Being labeled as undersized and too small never kept him from achieving great things. Any LB on our team, heck any player, need only to look at Zack as an example of how to prepare and maximize their potential. Even though Zach always seemed like an afterthought to those except the players who played with him and opposing QB's, he is definitely worthy of being in the HOF. I don't know about McMillan because he was out all season, but we don't have one LB, not a friggin one!, that is worthy of carrying Zach's jock!! They're totally clueless! Combined, they're half the player he was!
There's two jerseys hanging on the wall in my office - Marino and Thomas. That pretty much sums up my opinion on the subject.
I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why he's not a finalist at the very least.
Zach didn't have a pregame dance and primal scream like Lewis. Urlacher was deployed in a unique MLB role in the Cover 2 scheme. Essentially, he's being overlooked.
Oh, speaking of overlooked, why do I keep seeing support for often injured Tony Boselli? Hello committee! RICHMOND WEBB
I absolutely blame him. He insisted on Fiedler and refused to bring in any formidable competition.
We of course know he passed on Drew Brees.
That defense was damn near lights out those 3-4 years after Marino retired. That Defense beat the eventual super bowl champion ravens almost entirely on their own.
I do blame Jimmy for not getting a guy in place before Marino left, though he seemed to like Damon Huard. I would of liked to have seen what Jimmy would have done had he stayed a few more years.
Zach was like 5-11 and 240 lbs and that compact frame hit like a Mack truck. Jerome Bettis was a huge RB who a lot of defenders hated to have to tackle and I remember Zach laying a monster hit on him, and then it was like Bettis wanted no part of Zach. Even in his older years when he was traded to the Cowboys he almost killed a wr in practice... that was one of the most vicious hits I've ever seen. He also diagnosed plays super quick, and even though he wasn't fast he was actually very good in coverage. He just seemed to Always be around the ball. I'm certainly biased because he was a phone and one of my all time favorite players but man... no way does that guy not deserve the HOF.
Dolphins bias at it's finest...Zach should be a HOF'er...I hope he gets in some day...
This is what I remember most about Zach - his arrival:
I love Zach attack, he was/is one of my favorite Dolphin players and he should be a finalist for the HOF no doubt about it. Hell, if you can put Terrell Davis in their you can definitely include Zach.
Urlacher doesn’t belong in the hall
Fiedler was actually playing well in 2002 until the broken thumb... Ray Lucas, along with the choke job in NE in week 17, cost us a division title and a playoff appearance that year.
So you think I'm biased, but you...agree with me? I'm confused.
And late in games that mattered.....
A lot of revisionist history in this thread re. that early ‘00s defense. If they were a great defense, they were the worst great defense I’ve ever seen.
Yes I wish Jimmy was all in. Just like I wish Saban was all in. Those were two of the best coaches in the world at the time. While we passed on Brees, he wasn’t a sure thing by no means and wasn’t the Drew Brees that we know until he went to the saints. Revisionist history imo
Killer Bees were a much better defense...and obviously the "no names" were top 10 ever.
no not you, the voters...Zach will be the victim of Dolphin bias...
Classic case of lack of team success ultimately being his downfall.
At least with JT he had some all time numbers, played longer and was Defensive MVP. Zach essentially has tackle numbers.
But had the Fins been relevant during his career, he would be a shoe in candidate with the same exact stats.
Sucks, but I don't believe he ever gets in . . . . and Urlacher shouldn't either IMO.
Two of my favorite players from that era were Zach Thomas and Cory Schlesinger. Those two knew how to play the game in the old school way. I don't recall the exact number of facemasks that Schlesinger broke with his blocking for Barry Sanders but there were quite a few.