Videos of every Hartline target and reception 2012

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by fanfin, Mar 1, 2013.

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  1. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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  2. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    Looks like Hartline's lack of TDs has been missed throws by Tannehill and him being slightly over matched versus #1 CBs. Wallace would help him with that. I think he is a more than capable #2 but regardless gotta bring him back. Double moves= a lot of TDs Tannehill simply missed Hartline on a lot of TDs that are throws Ryan will make next season. He makes plenty of 50/50 catches. He destroyed Arizona for 253 yards. Wallace Hartline Swope and intrigued by Armon Binns and Rishard Matthews. I also like Brandon Myers TE from Oakland who finished 5th in the league in yards by a TE and has connections to Philbin and receivers coach Ken O'Keefe
     
  3. RT2DT4TD

    RT2DT4TD Active Member

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    Thank you so much!
     
  4. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    excited to see him get a full offseason with Tannehill to work on the deep balls. Hartline has deceptive speed. Most fail to remember that Brian missed the ENTIRE OFFSEASON with an appendectomy and calf injury. Didn't practice until last week of training camp
     
  5. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    Man..Hartline is such a tease he runs some beautiful routes.But that extra gear, ability to break tackles is nonexistent. No way he should be a #1 at beast a poor mans #2.
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I watched the same videos. I draw different conclusions.

    FIRST VIDEO: Houston, Oakland, New York Jets, Arizona, Cincinnati

    INCOMPLETE PASSES
    01. TD POTENTIAL: Hartline can't separate, no window against single coverage on play-action.
    02. Sidelines. Covered. Ball thrown high on purpose, because window was too tight.
    04. INTERCEPTION. Tipped at the line.
    05. Sidelines. Miscommunication.
    06. TD POTENTIAL: Miscommunication. Tannehill wants the outside shoulder. Hartline isn't on the same page.
    07. TD POTENTIAL: Tight coverage, Hartline fails to come back to ball, or use body to shield the catch.
    08. Hartline gets open, Tannehill pressured too quickly couldn't hit the window.
    09. Slant pattern. Ball on the back collar bone. Dropped.
    10. TD POTENTIAL: Tannehill scrambles, throws into Hartline's bread basket, dropped.
    11. Slant pattern. Excellent coverage Cromartie. Hartline ran the route wrong.
    12. TD POTENTIAL: Deep ball, single cover Cromartie. Can't separate. Ball overthrown. PASS INTERFERENCE.
    13. Tannehill throwaway. OFFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE.
    14. Curl. Thrown too wide.
    15. TD POTENTIAL: Fade in end zone. No window. Overthrown.
    16. TD POTENTIAL: Fade in end zone. Separation good enough. Overthrown.
    17. TD POTENTIAL: Deep ball single coverage Kyle Wilson into end zone. No separation. No window.
    18. TD POTENTIAL: End zone single coverage Pat Peterson. Ball on the money. Hartline can't win. Covered.
    19. TD POTENTIAL: Great call at line. Deep throw, single cover. Great separation. Overthrown.
    20. Misccomunication on short throw.
    21. INTERCEPTION: Hartline fell down on the route.
    22. Tannehill throwaway.
    23. Comeback. Very little separation. Ball too far inside.
    24. INTERCEPTION: Tannehill hit as he threw, ball came out wrong as result of hit.
    25. Extended play. Scramble drill. Hartline executes. Ball too low.
    26. In breaking route. Hartline didn't get head around. PASS INTERFERENCE.

    CATCHES WITH TOUCHDOWN POTENTIAL:
    01. TD POTENTIAL: Accurate deep ball, single coverage, separation. Hartline goes down immediately after catch
    02. TD POTENTIAL: Accurate back shoulder near end zone, Hartline doesn't keep his feet to try for any RAC.
    03. TD POTENTIAL: Out pattern. Well thrown. Lots of separation. Goes OOB instead of RAC. CB is only defender in sight.
    04. TD POTENTIAL: Back shoulder. Hartline no separation vs. Cromartie. Well thrown ball. Difficult to pull down w/ tight coverage.
    05. TD POTENTIAL: Deep ball, double move. Lots of separation. Ball slightly overthrown to where RAC TD not possible.
    06. TD POTENTIAL: Deep ball single cover William Gay. Lots of separation. Ball on the money. Hartline caugh
    07. TD POTENTIAL: Square in near end zone. Ball caught at 7 with room to run. Got 6 yards, needed 7.
    08. TD POTENTIAL: Deep route w/ Pat Peterson. Tannehill pressured, screws up timing. Great job Hartline to even catch it.
    09. TD POTENTIAL: Scramble drill. Hartline executes, tags upfield, Tannehill underthrows. Caught but could've been TD.

    TOUCHDOWNS
    01. Blown coverage. Not a defender for miles. Hartline caught from behind, but fell into end zone.

    FIRST VIDEO CONCLUSION: By my calculations here I have 20 potential touchdowns in the first 5 games. The two players (Ryan Tannehill & Brian Hartline) managed to capitalize on only 1 of the 20 opportunities. I have Ryan Tannehill clearly at fault (even if it's because of pressure in his face) on only 5 of the 19 missed opportunities. The other 14 missed opportunities were a combination of Hartline not showing strong hands, not being on the right page with his quarterback, not keeping his feet during the catch so that he can run after the catch, not creating enough separation, or not being physically impressive enough to run all the way into the end zone despite having the opportunity to do so.
     
  7. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    What excuse is there for the previous season and half of the season before that?
    Hartline has 2 tds in the last 42 games
     
  8. insomnia411

    insomnia411 The world is yours

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    He's a decent #2. I'm not looking for decent, I want dynamic. Give me Mike Wallace, two explosive rookies and keep Bess in the slot.
     
  9. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx A True Fan

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    Just lacks next level ability, all there is to it.

    IMO take whatever $ you were going to offer hartline, offer it to amendola instead. Danny actually gets separation.
     
  10. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod The Oracle

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    If I'm betting which player was not on the right page, I'd guess it was Tannehill a lot more then Hartline.

    I saw more bad passes then bad routes.
     
  11. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod The Oracle

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    this was good stuff, thanks. i wonder how often we threw into the endzone compared to others teams?

    This has me liking Hartline even more. I do not see our problem as "Hartline not being a number one" as much as we did not have a 2nd outside WR period. Hartline got 74 catches, Bess had 61 then the next WR we have is WR R Matthews tied with FB J Lane with 11 catches. We need a real WR who can line up outside, get 50 catches and allow Bess to go back to the slot. Adding either a speedster or "simply" a 2nd good WR will help a lot.
     
  12. Scotty P

    Scotty P Well-Known Member Donator

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    Um....I believe Chad Henne, Henning, and Sporano are legitimate excuses. Look at his production with better QB play, better play calling and a better game plan. He still has upside potential.....IMO
     
  13. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    If we cant/dont get Jennings/Wallace then I go with Draft pick and Ryan Swope with Hartline. But either way, Hartline should be in the four man rotation. its really not a matter of scoring TD's but he was the man in a weak WR team. everyone knows this. pay the man. He is asking half of the others.
     
  14. jetsh8r

    jetsh8r A True Fan

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    I think everyone that wants Hartline to walk will be very sorry they did.
     
  15. insomnia411

    insomnia411 The world is yours

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    If we can't get Wallace, Jennings or Bowe then we should probably use our first 2 picks on wideout.
     
  16. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    Thanks fanfin for the excellent compilations. Thank you also Max Lukas for making them (and I hope you're on phinheaven!). I have to question whether these are all the targets for Hartline though, as I seem to remember a few more. These underscore several things for me.

    Hartline:
    1. Best sideline footwork in the NFL, we would be foolish to waste this in the slot. The QB can throw the ball out of boundes and Hartline catches it with his feet in bounds consistently. That's virtually indefensable.
    2. Great route runner. The WCO demands a lot of timing routes and precisely run routes. Hartline was phenomenal at this, always running to the correct spot, always breaking his routes correctly and at the right time, always being where the QB wants him to be.
    3. Defends his QB's pass. Hartline routinely comes back to the ball when the QB intentionally throws him open short. This doesn't sound like much but I'd say at least 1/3 of the NFL fails to do this and it causes interceptions.
    4. Good hands. Hartline seems to have exceptional hands, consistently coming down with the ball in traffic and making catches at full stretch. He sacrafices his body willingly and holds onto the ball. He fumbled once (Stephon Gilmore with the strip and Jarius Byrd with the recovery ... I'd love to hav ethose two players!). But, it seems that a few non-catches are missing from these montages. Perhaps it's just my memory failing, but I thought he had a few more bounce off his hands.
    5. Good downfield blocker. These highlights don't show it because Hartline is the target, but he's a very good downfield blocker. Willing and capable, he is the type of WR that would allow a great RAC guy to break plays long. Cordarrelle Patterson would love him.
    6. Can't run the fade effectively in the red zone. Sure, he's 6'2 and has a little speed, but CB's seem to elevate and bat the ball away on the short red zone field. They also get an arm into the catch and rip/rake it away.
    7. Can be single covered. Hartline can abuse some CB's in single coverage, even good ones like Aqib Talib, but some athletic corners can blanket him effectively. This is true of all WR's, but it's worth noting.

    Tannehill:
    1. Perfectly in sync with Hartline. They both read the play the same way and are on the same page. Makes for an incredibly smooth battery.
    2. Only 1 pass even had a chance to be intercepted. When a QB throws a WR for 1k yardage and has zero INT's and only 1 that even had a chance to be intercepted, that's dominant by coaching standards. How do you let that WR walk in free agency? Answer: you don't. Unless there were more targets not shown, this is the most impressive part of these videos--that Tannehill correctly threw the ball where it could not be intercepted a ton of times, Hartline made tremendous catches in traffic or toe-hangers over the sideline and we never put the ball at risk.

    People see Hartline as white and without true deep speed. They immediately think he's a below-average receiver and probably best in the slot, neither of which is correct. Hartline is definitely an outside receiver. He has a little speed and makes tremendous hands catches even when contested in traffic. The WCO requires precise route running, understanding and awareness to break your routes correctly, and good hands. Hartline is exceptional at all of these areas. I can't see Philbin and Sherman letting Hartline go. Ireland wants to hold onto him to prove he can find acorns. Hartline is a good receiver who will be resigned IMHO.
     
  17. MrEd

    MrEd A True Fan

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    Idk, I watched the videos and was reminded why I don't want Brian Hartline back. This guy was not explosive. He is not powerful. He falls down after every catch. He is basically a run stop and turn possession WR that we can have in Matthews or Binns. After noticing this repetitive play, I took Hartline back off my Mock Offseason as a possible re-signee. I do not want Brian Hartline back. Not even for $3.5mil. I'd rather give Binns what he's getting than to pay for the underwhelming WR Brian Hartline was. I appreciate the videos and the post though. But it definitely helped convince me why I don't want Brian Hartline back.
     
  18. maralieus

    maralieus Lets get those balls deep!!

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    The question is, is it Tannehills fault for overthrowing, or is it Hartlines fault for not being able to hit that next gear to go get it? I think That with a player with real speed Tannehill wont miss on those long throws. Fast WR's can get seperation which allows them to be able to adjust their speed accordingly and make a play on the ball. Hartline has no business going for deep balls. The only time he gets deep catches is off of blown coverages or if the throw is perfect and the CB is draped all over him. You'll never see him beat a CB and safety and catch it running for a long TD. But when you have a play break down he is a very reliable target, and he is money in 2 minute situations, he absolutely killed some CB's last year working the sidelines routes. I say keep him, put him where he belongs on the field, which is as a #2 against #2 Cbs, and let him do what he does well, because he is very good with Tannehill, and he very well could become an integral part of a playoff run.
     
  19. broccoli rob

    broccoli rob proud of your boy

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    Sweet! I was tired of abusing melatonin, so I'll use this to fall asleep tonight
     
  20. kcbrown

    kcbrown Life is what we make it. Donator

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    good one rob
     
  21. enigmatics

    enigmatics Go get me a juice box!

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    This is such a copout.

    It's the QB's job to know his receivers skill sets. Overthrown passes are just that, overthrown passes! The whole world knows Hartline doesn't possess that kind of speed skillset. It's Tanny's job to better adjust his passes accordingly.
     
  22. CRAZYDOLFAN305

    CRAZYDOLFAN305 We Are Still Going To The SB

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    Maybe consistent QB play ? What was Marshall Excuse for just just 3 Td's in 2010 and just 6 in 2011? Majority of our problems over the last decade can be directly attributed to inconsistent quarterback play!
     
  23. broccoli rob

    broccoli rob proud of your boy

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    Yep. Tannehill is holding Hartline back. like Matt Moore did. Like Chad Henne did. This poor Hartline, he gets a lot of bad luck.
     
  24. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod The Oracle

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    Try some White Widow.........
     
  25. sirvmac

    sirvmac Well-Known Member

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    We need a better #2 than him. Let him walk.
     
  26. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    why not keep him and make him #4
     
  27. MrEd

    MrEd A True Fan

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    I would argue til I'm blue in the face why I don't want Hartline back, but the signs are pointing to the fact that Ireland wants him back, so am not wasting my time hating. :D
     
  28. fakespike

    fakespike Starter

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    WW is a sativa, not gonna help anyone sleep. He'd be better off with a Kush.
     
  29. PlexGod

    PlexGod Starter

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    yeah what i get from the videos is a couple of missed oppertunities from Tannehill and just a total inability to make explosive plays from Hartline. The guy just can break a tackle to save his life. to may trip ups and falling for no reason. He is not a guy that can catch a 10 yard slant and break it for 30 yards and a TD. outside of the one game with the broken coverage he just can make plays with the ball in his hand. We need to let him go and upgrade in the draft or FA. I think a guy like swope or woods or hunter or bailey would all be upgrades over Fartline. Get wallace and draft one of those four and have bess in the slot and matthews as #4 and a decent TE and we will put up points in 2013.
     
  30. AFCMiamiEast

    AFCMiamiEast A True Fan

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    As a starting quarterback in highschool and potentially in college, I agree 100%. There is no way around it. This is where the term "chemistry" is key, and the connection between a QB and his receiver is so important so they learn each other's tendencies. The only way to improve it is experience.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Every quarterback in the NFL misses opportunities. Every single one. Tom Brady overthrows players. So do Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers.

    On those videos I saw a lot more opportunities missed because of Brian Hartline's shortcomings than I did because of Ryan Tannehill's. Approximately three times as many, as a matter of fact.
     
  32. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Honestly, I think catch with potential #7 tells me everything I need to know about Hartline. That was a play that really frustrated me when it happened, and seeing it again on the video just frustrates me again. There are things to like about the guy, he's a solid player, but he's just not good with the ball in his hands.
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    The thing that bothered me on that play is just he seemed so content to go down when being tackled shy of the end zone. There's no nose for the end zone there. No mentality that he is not going to be stopped until he gets the ball across that plane. Everything is a numbers game with Hartline. I did good enough, we'll live to fight another down, we'll probably get the touchdown eventually. It's the complete opposite of Hakeem Nicks' attitude, as an example.

    The play just before that one that I noted, Catch #06...that one is just as frustrating in its own way. He and Tannehill created a lot of separation with a combination of double move execution and eye fundamentals. At the moment Hartline catches the football he's at a dead run with 2 or 3 yards head start on William Gay. Gay by the way, ran a 4.48 at his private Louisville pro day, so let's not pretend this is some 4.3 speedster. With a 2 or 3 yard lead and only 25 yards separating you from the end zone, you either dig deep and find the speed to finish this play, or you don't. He didn't.
     
  34. kcbrown

    kcbrown Life is what we make it. Donator

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    Damn CK you nailed it with this point. This is exactly what the kid does and it is not acceptable on championship teams.

    He doesn't fight for the endzone as if his life depended on it. That is the difference between NFL starters and your #3 or #4WR (amongst other things)....it's mental.

    He is a decent player Fin fans but when you are at the 5 yard line, and your team is counting on you to score (because your team sucks at scoring)...where is the anger, the power, the "No one is going to stop me!" or the "GTF off me!"in the guy? I think the kid has the skills (not the speed) but there is no extra fight in the guy. Run ten yards, catch the ball, fall down (sometimes willingly/easily)....that is our Hartline.

    Did you all see Crabtree in the playoffs? Boldin? White?, etc....once the WR catches the ball he immediately heads up field hand fighting/shoving defenders away or juking away from them OR if no one is in the immediate vicinity, he scans the field and looks for the quickest path to the endzone. I don't see that with Hartline (Bess does it - but he is just too slow/too small so he can't score either).
     
  35. AFCMiamiEast

    AFCMiamiEast A True Fan

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    I didn't/couldn't watch the video, and am in no way downplaying the fact that Hartline is disgustingly void of any mindset or ability of making plays after the catch. However, if a quarterback overthrows the ball, it's just that. Overthrown. A lot of you are drinking the Tannehill kool aide and can't see him do much of anything wrong. I do believe he will be an above average franchise QB for us, but it's not on Hartline to step into a 2nd gear that he may not have just because Tannehill tossed the rock a tad too far. This is where chemistry comes into play and you learn your receiver's tendencies and speed. It will only get better once the two progress, and if Hartline is back next season.
     
  36. hrpuffin

    hrpuffin Well-Known Member

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    Why dont we keep our good players and get more good players? Seems kind of simple to me.
     
  37. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    remember, Hartline didn't practice ALL off-season till last week of Training Camp.

    ---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

    he is still a good receiver, last time I checked you can't have too many. Just ask GB, they lost Nelson and Greg for most of the season.. They still had Cobb and JJ step up big time.
     
  38. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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  39. DrMom9900

    DrMom9900 Well-Known Member

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    You guys focusing on a WR's stats, in probably the worst couple of years for dolphins receivers, are wasting your time. Hartline has only been able to play on a mediocre team. If he make makes td's on all the td potential throws you guys think he should have, we'd probably be in the superbowl cause we'd be scoring 40 points a game. This is a team game and it has a funny way of balancing out. Yes hartline lacks numbers in the TD column, but how can you guys hold that against him? Maybe if we were playoff caliber team, and he was holding us back, then you anti-hartliners would have a point, but the fact is, this guy has been nothing but a hard worker, consistent and a solid WR. He's not a number one, He doesnt want to get paid as a number one, but this guy is a valuable asset to whatever team he plays for. Another year with Tannehill, plus more help in the receiver core will do nothing but up this guys game. Hartline is a fking beast.
     

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