Wake Miami's most efficient pass rusher

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DKphin, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    I don't agree with Armando often, but I'm on the same page on this one.

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2009/11/wake-miamis-most-efficient-pass-rusher.html
     
  2. jtoomuch

    jtoomuch Apalled and aghast Donator

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    This seems so obvious. There must be something we don't know. I still cringe at the amount of time opposing QBs have to throw the ball sometimes. I don't understand this either.
     
  3. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Because he don't have a complete skill set to play DE/OLB in the league? I guess a OLB/DE being able to cover or stop the run is so yesteryear.

    The BUF game is Wake's coming out party. But sit down and look at BUF's OLINE that game. 2 Tackles that were 3rd/4th string at best, and 2 ROOKIE Guards. Sure Wake had a great game, but when he gets his chance against the likes of Brees/Sanchez/Brady he comes away w/ 1 sack. If the guy was a complete LB/DE, he would be playing. But he isn't.
     
  4. tylerdolphin

    tylerdolphin More Smug than Birthday Dog Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Yea, we wouldn't want a run stuffer like Porter to lose snaps to Wake. Wake might not be good at it.
     
  5. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    I'll never forget Cowher talking to Greg Lloyd on the sidelines and saying,(paraphrasing)"Rush the QB, that's all I want you to do." I know Wake may have some issues with run defense, but we need his young knees.:wink: Plus instead of taking Joey out when Wake is in the game, we could switch to a 4-3 taking a MLB out of the game and moving JT to DE. That would improve run defense and put our 3 best pass rushers on the field.:up:
     
  6. Ghostfx123

    Ghostfx123 Rookie

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    The only time i saw edge pressure the whole game last week was when wake was in there give the kid more snaps he's earned it.
     
  7. SRM

    SRM Scout Team

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    I seriousy believe Wake can get 10 sacks this year if they just let him do his damn thing.

    Is it not enough that he has 2 more sacks than Porter in probably less than 1/4th of the playing time?
     
  8. mmikel30

    mmikel30 Starter

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    i don't see how that matters porter dosent cover or make tackles give wake his snaps,
     
  9. baseballcb95

    baseballcb95 A True Fan

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    Is this serious? Im not saying wake is god or something but really? Porter is one demensional (if u can even say tht considering he sucks at rushing the passer), how much worse can wake be?

    Look no further than the stats:

    (GamesStarted, TKLS, SACKS, Passdefensed, FF)
    Porter- (7, 12, 2.5, 1, 1)
    Wake - (0, 11, 3.5, 0, 1)

    Wake has played in 6 games, porter has played 7, porter has started all 7 of his games, wake has not started a game , and wake is recieving between 1/4 to 1/3 the snaps Porter is.

    Call them player A and player B and who do u think has produced and deserves to play more? get rid of his name and gues what, he probably is 3rd sting. thats all porter is at this point. a name.
     
  10. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    I could actually agree with this. Take Chowder out and peel the ears back. But people are advocating starting/giving the majority of the snaps to Wake, I along w/ the coaching staff don't agree.
     
  11. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Determined by playing time, the Coaching Staff believes as I do. Now you may think I'm wrong along w/ the CS, but they know alot more than you and I.

    BTW, Wake against that poor *** OLINE in Buffalo was a reality. I watch alot of those game since my brother is a huge BUFF fan, and those tackles that week were pathetic and probably came from the CFL themselves.
     
  12. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Porter does have to contain on running plays don't he? Something Wake has shown no ability to do to date...being he runs straight up field and the qb either steps up or the tackle rides him out of the way. How did he get his sack this past weekend, didn't JT pressure him into Wake?
     
  13. SRM

    SRM Scout Team

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    What does Porter even do? All I seem him do is run past the play, or get stood up by the tackle. It seems like either one of those is happening every play. And if he does manage to get the tackle, it is 7-8 yards downfield
     
  14. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    That would be almost all the LB's outside of JT imo.

    Frankly if he got more snaps, at this point I wouldn't care. The sooner he can prove people one way or the other right or wrong the better off this team will be. MIA isn't destined for the playoffs and will end up being a avg team with a avg record.

    But again I just don't believe he brings enough to the game to warrant more snaps. You either believe in this CS or you don't. I was told this excuse non stop about Penny. Wake fans need to understand that reality also.
     
  15. SRM

    SRM Scout Team

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    I agree. But I just think we aren't going anywhere with Porter. Wake's overall LB skills definitely to need to be polished, but really the only way that happens is for him to get game time and experience at the position.

    It's kind of like Henne, he could only learn so much by getting tip after tip, it's obvious there are a ton of things that he can only learn by being on the field.

    If anything though, just give the man the starting position at the 4-3 DE when we're in that formation. If he isn't going to be in as a linebacker, give him that at least.
     
  16. baseballcb95

    baseballcb95 A True Fan

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    one of the main and probably only reasons porter is getting all the time is

    A) his name is Joey Porter and not cameron wake and is playing off past accomplishments
    B) His contract
    C) do u f'in blame Sporano, how would u like to be the 2nd year head coach of a struggling team and tell a great has been OLB with an ego unimaginable that a CFL player is starting ahead of him lmaoo Joey wuld probably woop his *** and spit on him, then talk **** cuz thats wat hes best at this season..
     
  17. 72champagne

    72champagne the annual ritual

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    Porter runs his mouth every week like he's about to give a big performance then falls on his face. That's about to get old real quick. I don't think too many players start their first year out with big sack numbers against NFL offensive tackles. You have to practice against them and play real games against them. For anyone to already judge Wake as incapable or not likely to produce is just biased bologna. He's shown nothing but promise.
     
  18. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    :jimmyjames:
     
  19. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    I doubt Porter is on this team next year, let's find out what Wake can do and what he needs to improve on. While we're at it let's do the same with Turner on offense!
     
  20. U-M_all_day

    U-M_all_day Starter

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    Wake probably hasn't even hit 60 snaps this year
     
  21. Dr. Phin

    Dr. Phin Scout Team

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    I think it is simply that the staff doesn't have the balls to sit Porter. He was in the Buffalo game because Porter was hurt, and much to Porter's dismay...he showed that he was worth a further look. In fact, he looks one hell of a lot better than Porter. Porter is crap against the run, so having Wake in there won't be much of difference there. Also, I rarely see Porter in coverage...so no loss there either...
     
  22. Dr. Phin

    Dr. Phin Scout Team

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    I understand your points. And Wake may not be the answer, but at this point Porter is not producing and needs to be replaced by someone...anyone...and Wake so far is looking like he deserves a shot at being that someone...
     
  23. Dr. Phin

    Dr. Phin Scout Team

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    Yep...when Sparano says he got 11 snaps in the game...I bet that includes his special teams plays. I doubt he had more than 5 actual plays lined up on defense. I think he only had those two in the first half...
     
  24. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Even saying what I did, it isn't enough. You want me to say Wake is a beast? That he can cut it in the NFL? Well we can ALL speculate to why he isn't getting more snaps....but the fact is this COACHING STAFF isn't giving him the snaps. NOT ME.

    Let him sink or swim. Frankly I don't care. This team is a 9-7/ 8-8 team that needs to look to tomorrow. This CS and FO brought this team into this season w/ glaring holes. OLB/ILB one of them...people like myself wanted Henne earlier, and I was told this CS/FO believed that Penny was the answer. Well this goes the same....if WAKE was the answer he would be playing more. It sucks but it is what it is.


    :thanks:
     
  25. Possum

    Possum I'M AMAZIN', YEA, IM ALL THAT!! Donator

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    run his mouth. he is very good at that.
     
  26. fin_fan23

    fin_fan23 Active Member

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    Orakpo leads all rookies with 5.5 sacks. I haven't seen the numbers, but I'm fairlllllllly confident he's been getting more snaps than Cam Wake. There seems to be a sentiment floating around that Wake's sack numbers mean nothing because of the Buffalo game.... Sacks are so difficult to come by, though.. let's not lose sight of that. 1 sack a game is a hall of fame career. It's just ridiculous that he isn't playing more.
     
  27. Etuoo33

    Etuoo33 Seasoned Veteran

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    I think it's time to find out what we have in both Wake and Turner. Wake makes plays, so put him on the field so he can learn to be a complete LB, sure we are going to take our lumps but at 3-5 we are hardly SB ready. We need to find out if Turner can even play at this level. The other guys that we have at his position are not getting it done to say the least. If they get to play we at least will have an idea going into next season if what we have is adequate.
     
  28. Fish-Head

    Fish-Head U made the pudding but forgot the proof.

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    Sorry Dubz but to argue that Wake should not get reps because he is one dimensional is walking headlong into an argument about the value of Porter who has been one dimensional for YEARS now. If Wake is rushing the passer BETTER than Porter... then just what do we have to lose?

    and please no more 'Level of Competition'... JT was out against that same Buffalo OL... Have we not seen enough of Wake now to evaluate the player instead of constantly referencing who he has played against or who has cut him in the past?

    Lastly the 'Penny situation' has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on the present Wake debate. Pennington like it or not was still playing at a high level... You wanted to see Henne, fair enough but the coaches were far more JUSTIFIED in keeping Penny in on sunday than they are right now.

    THE REAL ISSUE IS THE FACT THAT PORTER IS NOT PERFORMING.
     
  29. josekareh

    josekareh Finfansince75

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    What????

    at this point, he is playing better than Porter who had 0 tackles last game... What do you have to lose?
     
  30. ton80

    ton80 Member

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    :tumbleweed:
    He only came away with 1 sack vs Brees/Sanchez/Brady........duh ..he barely played! Wake is a better player than Porter.
     
  31. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    Get some new material cause Sunday's a coming..!!!
     
  32. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Is he a starting? If not you need the new material.

    I was told this FO/CS staff KNEW what they were doing, to believe in them. Well I am, he isn't starting, his snaps are limited and it is what it is. I really don't care...This FO/CS brought this team into this season w/ glaring holes and weaknesses that make no since. I rather see what this team has for tomorrow, today.

    People need to get over themselves. Wake has had limited snaps...is it because of his skill set? Is it because he's a beast whose being held down by the man? Why is he seeing limited action? If he was all that you think he is....WHY isn't he PLAYING more?
     
  33. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Wouldn't he be starting? If not why isn't he? People told me that Penny was this CS choice. Well from what I've seen this season...Porter is this FO/CS choice.
     
  34. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Penny was playing at a high level? I guess if you say so. He picked up where he left off after that BALT game, losing and throwing picks.

    Fact is this CS and FO believe that Porter is a better player/performer than Wake. I just happen to agree. And that is the sentiment that was thrown my way when the debate about Penny was going on. It is what it is.
     
  35. GasPed

    GasPed Well-Known Member

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    Circular Logic: A logical fallacy where one argues for a conclusion that has already been presumed in the premise.

    Example - DolfanDuBbZ~'s neurotic dislike of Cam Wake

    Q: Why aren't the coaches playing Cam Wake? A: Because they don't think he's any good.
    Q: Well why don't they think he's any good? A: Clearly because they're not playing him, stupid!

    :rolleyes:
     
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  36. Fish-Head

    Fish-Head U made the pudding but forgot the proof.

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    I only mentioned Penny in order to try and discard the logic that the two scenarios are the same... Or even similar.

    Henne was not getting reps behind Penny AND PLAYING WELL... Therefore he was not outplaying Penny at the time. He was waiting his turn.

    This is NOT that.

    By your own logic (see what we have for tomorrow... today and your logic to start Henne NOW) you support a move to see what we have in Wake who is the future (certainly more than Porter) and yet you are resistant.

    Just pointing out the contradiction.
     
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  37. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    Dude you get over yourself - you threw him into the crapper the day "you arrived" because of his past, because of his level of competition, now when the guy blows his nose the wrong way..., guess who is there to defend their initial unfounded & biased near bigoted against all things Canada case -your case doesn't wash... and BTW he will get more snaps every week - most people have seen this from the start of training camp - he that being WAKE and no Professor he doesn't need to start to make a big contribution so take your humble pie and move on from your bias and admit that he can and will help a whole hell of a lot or are you going to continue defending your bias...? Wake can and will play in this league he was heads above the competition in the CFL - in my op. a piss poor league..., they through everything at him like I have ever seen in the CFL before..., the other teams are glad Wake is gone... now Wake can and will play against the big boys - Reality bites eh...?

    So keep shoveling your B.S. ... So as long as you continue to soil yourself I'll be here to watch...
     
  38. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    Or what we can all call B.S.
     
  39. walt

    walt A True Fan

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    I think it's well established that the only way to beat Tom Brady is to be in his face. The Fins didn't get that done on Sunday, so they lost. Wake should have been in a lot more than 11 plays.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Far as I can tell, Wake has only had 21 snaps since the Buffalo game. Before this NE game he'd had 10 meaningful snaps. He beat Jon Stinchcomb and forced Brees to step up in the pocket where he got his ball batted away. He beat Damien Woody and then got picked up by a double team from Brandon Moore. He beat Damien Woody again in the second game and forced an early throw on a 3rd & Long which didn't convert.

    I haven't scoured all 11 of his plays against the Patriots yet but he did get a sack and he also got a pressure.

    The bottom line is the kid can rush the passer effectively. If that isn't good enough to get on the field in your scheme somehow, then the scheme needs to adapt to the talent.

    Knowing what you're doing and doing the right thing are two different things. This staff absolutely knows what they're doing, and they know why they're doing what they're doing. But that doesn't mean they're doing the right thing.
     

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