We Are a Terrible Screen Pass Team | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

We Are a Terrible Screen Pass Team

So did it improve with Matt Moore at QB?

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Many of those screens are built ins to the read option...they arent called screens by gase

Only difference id expect to see is less qb reading the edge defender post snap more direct hand offs regardless to keep tanny from taking unnecessary contact

They already said that hes gonna be more of a pocket qb going forward...believe it

Anyways if the box count says throw the bubble pre snap throw it post snap we will

And miami just signed the worst screen blocking wr in football to $20 million guaranteed so theres that too
 
Many of those screens are built ins to the read option...they arent called screens by gase

Only difference id expect to see is less qb reading the edge defender post snap more direct hand offs regardless to keep tanny from taking unnecessary contact

They already said that hes gonna be more of a pocket qb going forward...believe it

Anyways if the box count says throw the bubble pre snap throw it post snap we will

And miami just signed the worst screen blocking wr in football to $20 million guaranteed so theres that too

It's a catch 22. You put in Caroo for Stills as a better blocker and the secondary doesn't have to respect the deep ball and therefore are in better position to make a play on outside screens. Then it's no longer a constraint play which is the only time screens should be used.

And the built-in reads for the outside screens need to go away. I guess they will fade as you mentioned, but that crap should have been shown the door with Lazor. It only works well in college because of the extended hashmarks that lengthen the fieldside. Otherwise, NFL players are too smart and too fast for it to work.
 
Not to mention that screen passes often work because you caught the defense off guard... Kinda hard to do when you're the team doing it the most, wild guess is that opposing defenses are going to be looking for it if they have done any type of homework...

Now we're getting somewhere. Every time Miami took the field last year, I muttered ("PLEASE no screen pass THIS time!!"). If I can tell it's too common, every DC knows it and, I'd stake my life on this . . . it's practiced by every Miami opponent. Yes, it's to keep the D honest and, yes, it CAN be a big play, but it seemed more often than not it LOST yardage. How about a fake screen and draw or a fake screen to one side and throw to the other. If the idea is constraint or to slow the D's reaction time,there are other ways besides the standard screen.
 
Its not going away when its a numbers advantage play...and thats what it is count the box play...the bubble used as an extension of the runnng game...the goal isnt to gain 8 yards a clip its to gain 4

And as long as miami has more slug straight ahead guard play than lateral and range athletes i wouldnt be scrapping it as in the inside zone read option with built ins when it jump starts the run game although if it is scrapped somewhat it will be with qb health in mind more than anything else

Numbers play all the way though

Also miami isnt throwing deep verticals out of those looks anyways outside of maybe a pump the screen wr act like hes gonna block then release down the seam when the middle deep or shaded safety gets nosy so pulling stills for a caroo there given the blocking aspect of things isnt the worst thing
 
Its not going away when its a numbers advantage play...and thats what it is count the box play...the bubble used as an extension of the runnng game...the goal isnt to gain 8 yards a clip its to gain 4

And as long as miami has more slug straight ahead guard play than lateral and range athletes i wouldnt be scrapping it as in the inside zone read option with built ins when it jump starts the run game although if it is scrapped somewhat it will be with qb health in mind more than anything else

Numbers play all the way though

Also miami isnt throwing deep verticals out of those looks anyways outside of maybe a pump the screen wr act like hes gonna block then release down the seam when the middle deep or shaded safety gets nosy so pulling stills for a caroo there given the blocking aspect of things isnt the worst thing

I get the math and, like everyone else, I'm not advocating "scrapping it." But, like every other play, if it stops working or works infrequently, reduce it's usage. Maybe go from 2nd most screens in the league to 15th. I don't watch replays of any game so my memory could be wrong, but . . . it seems to me the two problems with the screen were poor WR blocking and/or running a screen when the CBs were playing tight. In any case, calling a play when it loses ground two thirds of the time (I made that number up) begs for a rethinking. Again, I agree with your logic and we seem to disagree only by matter of degree. We seem to disagree only on how often to run the screen.
 
I get the math and, like everyone else, I'm not advocating "scrapping it." But, like every other play, if it stops working or works infrequently, reduce it's usage. Maybe go from 2nd most screens in the league to 15th. I don't watch replays of any game so my memory could be wrong, but . . . it seems to me the two problems with the screen were poor WR blocking and/or running a screen when the CBs were playing tight. In any case, calling a play when it loses ground two thirds of the time (I made that number up) begs for a rethinking. Again, I agree with your logic and we seem to disagree only by matter of degree. We seem to disagree only on how often to run the screen.

Well what you are disagreeing with is lining up in that formation more than anything else more than you liking or that look...cause its a box count pre snap and a post snap edge read by the qb if the box count says hand it off or keep it and run with it primarily

There are some designed wr screen calls the tunnel variety but its a run pass option in the zone read with built ins
 
I think the failure rate goes deeper than just the guard play. Every screen play we attempt looks poorly executed, mistimed in tmers of player positions, with poor blocking from the WRs and TE, if he's involved, and insensitive timing of the pass to the receiver. There are a lot of interdependent parts in a successful screen play - ie one with more than 2 yds gain - and we seem very poor at making those parts mesh. Either the ball hits the receiver early and the blocking isn't correctly set up or it his late and the whole screen is telegraphed, to be stopped behind the LOS. Plus, as many have said, it's overused and our propensity to run it makes it even less effective.
 
Well what you are disagreeing with is lining up in that formation more than anything else more than you liking or that look...cause its a box count pre snap and a post snap edge read by the qb if the box count says hand it off or keep it and run with it primarily

There are some designed wr screen calls the tunnel variety but its a run pass option in the zone read with built ins

Still think we mostly agree. There was something wrong with Miami's screen game that is separate from box count. Poor blocking? D reading the play call? Personnel? I don't know, but if the box count says the screen is the best play and results show it's one of the worst plays, there is something wrong somewhere. One more time . . . in general I'm a fan of the screen. It has a number of advantages. But when the math says it's a good call and the results say it was a bad call, something is wrong. My vote goes to frequency of the call and (lack of) blocking.
 
Still think we mostly agree. There was something wrong with Miami's screen game that is separate from box count. Poor blocking? D reading the play call? Personnel? I don't know, but if the box count says the screen is the best play and results show it's one of the worst plays, there is something wrong somewhere. One more time . . . in general I'm a fan of the screen. It has a number of advantages. But when the math says it's a good call and the results say it was a bad call, something is wrong. My vote goes to frequency of the call and (lack of) blocking.

Corners sniffing it out more than anything else and poor blocking...by the wrs or tight ends...when i got 3 out there and you only got two the numbers say throw it but corners started sniffing it out and pressing it post snap before our blockers could get there or in stills case going thru him

When i said guard play i didnt mean for the bubble i meant for the outside zone stuff in the run game which to offset miami can use more the inside zone read stuff with built ins which allows for more interior oline plsy to stay inside the tackles and limit the athlete space limitations they have and we got a lot of that right now in the 2 deep guard group
 
Corners sniffing it out more than anything else and poor blocking...by the wrs or tight ends

Yup, we agree. Poor blocking was pretty obvious. And "corners sniffing it out" smells a lot like "look guys, Miami runs a LOT of screens so when the box count is in their favor, think screen first." And when the (lack of) success of the screen is in the D's favor, the screen threat is minimal. The OP (Wanny?) posted numbers on that but I'd like to see more detail. Was the screen thrown mostly on 2nd down? mostly in short yardage situations? I'm guessing the OP gave all the data he had, but tendencies work to the D's advantage. I'd still like to see some fake screens. Make the D pay for emphasis on the screen.

We're in COMPLETE agreement on guard play.
 
It's a catch 22. You put in Caroo for Stills as a better blocker and the secondary doesn't have to respect the deep ball and therefore are in better positionto make a play on outside screens. Then it's no longer a constraint play which is the only time screens should be used.

He'll be more of a threat when he learns to not look back at the qb at 10 yards on a fly.
 
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