What the Alex Smith Deal Means for Miami...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Billk78, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    In 2013 Tannehill was provided a running game (156 yards), time of possession (35-25) in NE and a 17-3 halftime lead similar to Jags. He threw 2 interceptions in the 2nd half and didn't score. News flash, we didn't win by 3 scores Homer.

    And people were bitching about Bortle's 2nd half performance. At least he lead a few FG drives to give his team a chance.
     
  2. The Ghost

    The Ghost Stamos

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    The dude was/is the definition of good, not great. He was the no.1 overall pick because he had a lot of things going for him. He just never had what I would call an NFL arm. He would compare to a more athletic Chad Pennington.

    It's no coincidence both times he was supplanted his former team it was with a QB significantly more capable velocity, even if it comes with less accuracy.

    You can win with Pennington/Smith types but it takes a really complete team. That's why Smith in Washington looks HORRIBLE.

    If Andrew Luck loses ANYTHING off his already below average arm I think he will be in danger of falling into the "game manager" category.

    Blake Bortles has a weak arm too but he doesn't have the accuracy of the other guys.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  3. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    That decision was made on draft day 2017. His 2017 was irrelevant. That is the issue that I have with drafting a QB this season.
     
  4. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I hear you, but they could've kept both, Mahomes has no leverage and there's nothing wrong with having both on the roster...
     
  5. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    LOL. Now we're going back to rip on a 2nd year QB on the road against a tough team in a game where his OL allowed 6 sacks. Nice.
     
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  6. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    That only delays the development of the new guy and creates a QB controversy (something that teams will go to great lengths to avoid).
     
  7. The Ghost

    The Ghost Stamos

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    I can only imagine what it would be like for Ryan Tannehill to have one of Hill or Kelce.....let alone both. Hunt's style and production is similar to what Ajayi gave Miami.

    For the record, I'd never accept Tyreek Hill on my team.
     
  8. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I heard that Tannehill threw 4 INTs in a flag football game in pre-school. I also heard he could never beat the nearby dominant pre-school and that he put up a ton of garbage time stats. Not only that, but he just didn't have "it". All the kids said so.
     
  9. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    If Mahomes plays well, KC looks smart. If Mahomes plays not so well, KC looks stupid. Ultimately, the wisdom of trading Alex Smith will have nothing to do with how well Smith plays in Washington, and everything to do with how well Mahomes plays in Kansas City.

    Chiefs are taking a risk. Is it a smart risk? I don't know, but what I do know is that it's a great way for Andy Reid to deflect from the fact that he's done the worst coaching of his career in playoff games.

    (And no, I'm not a Reid fan. I think he's a Peter Principle in action coach. He's a great, great offensive coordinator, but his game management is truly abysmal.)
     
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  10. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    He also had an interception in a pregame walk-through
     
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  11. The Ghost

    The Ghost Stamos

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    Ryan Tannehill only played flag football because none of the bigger kids could tackle him.

    Everyone knew the only way to stop him was to dive at his shin after the play was over.
     
  12. Liphinphan

    Liphinphan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Are you sure? I have heard others say it was a highly intense, competitive practice with PS players picking off his errant throws? And that it pissed him off and showed his lack of leadership?.....Oh, thats right Lurking, It WAS a walk thru with idiot players screwing around and RT let them have it. Sucks when the true story doesn't put him in a bad light. Much better to make one up , that one can repeat, and use erroneously in arguments....Thanks for clearing that up again
     
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  13. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Ah, the days when scrubs like McCain were screwing around and winning practice squad trophies while our HC was picking up gum wrappers. Seems like only yesterday,
     
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  14. The Ghost

    The Ghost Stamos

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    Ya but all the blades of grass on the field were evenly cut.
     
  15. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    If you can't be good, look good......
     
  16. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    Pretty interesting results in the 2 recent cases where Playoff team had established QB and they still drafted one in first round.

    In 2014 the Patriots drafted Jimmy G. The Patriots hadn't won a Super Bowl in 10 years under Brady. His passer rating was slowing declining over a 4 year period. 111, 105, 98, 87. Then with the pressure of possibly being replaced Brady raised his Passer rating 10 points and finally won that Super Bowl. With competition on the bench the passer rating has stayed above 100.

    In 2017 the Chiefs drafted Mahomes. KC was in the playoffs regularly but had early exits. They also had no vertical passing game and felt Smith was the issue. With pressure of being replaced Smith has his best season as a pro and also shed the label of not being able to throw the ball down field. While the results didn't change the Chiefs were rewarded handsomely by trading the motivated QB and getting more than they would of if they stayed pat.

    In both of these case the 1st round pick didn't provide any stats to help the team. But the pressure on the starting QB was ratched up and both responded with better season than they had had in years. Not sure how Tannehill would respond to that type situation since he has always had the starting gig and no pressure to lose that job.

    I do know that if his passer rating went up 10 points like Simth and Brady that would probably have a bigger impact than any player we could draft that would be on the field.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  17. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Garoppolo was drafted in the bottom of the 2nd round... And Brady's rating didnt shoot up when they drafted Mallet in 2011...
     
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  18. Spiff

    Spiff Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The Patriots have drafted a handful of QBs since Brady is their starter: Jacoby Brissett (3rd round 2016), Jimmy Garoppolo (2nd round 2014), (Ryan Mallett (3rd round 2011), Kevin O’Connell (3rd round 2008), Matt Cassel (7th round 2005), Kliff Kingsbury (6th round 2003), Rohan Davey (4th round 2002). The Patriots lost a Super Bowl when Wes Welker dropped a pass and they won one when the Seahawks play caller had a brain fart. I don’t think it has anything to do with drafting a backup QB.
     
  19. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    That is one giant assumption.

    What does it mean if Brady wins this year after the Jimmy G. threat was removed? Why didn't his play drop off? I'm pretty sure Brady would be insulted by the idea that he wasn't working as hard or as focused before drafting Jimmy G.
     
  20. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    And now they may win one with Garappolo gone.
     
  21. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    Both QB's rating went up over 10 points when threatened. You can believe what you want. To me it made a difference.
     
  22. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'm going with the improved running game and the emergence of Tyreek Hill as bigger reasons than drafting Mahomes.
     
  23. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    He is part of that team and will get another ring if they win. 8 games as Patriots makes it so.
     
  24. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Your sample size is exactly 2...
     
  25. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    I'm sure that played a part in it also. Football teams are pretty complex. No one factor explains anything. Just showing that successful teams have done it in the past and it has benefited them. You can't deny that.
     
  26. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    It hasn't happened very often. Can you think of any other cases like that? I just used what i can remember. Their may be more that I missed.
     
  27. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

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    Thing is I think we're wasting time talking about all this. I fully expect Ryan to be our QB in 2018 LIKE IT OR NOT. It's so hard to find a QB in the NFL, the guys coming out this year probably have a much bigger chance at being busts than any good. Ryan has shown many signs he can be and is a good QB, I think we'd be foolish to spend a high pick on one this year. We should have a contingency plan for Ryan re-injuring his knee but the rookies are likely not ready to play anyway. If we signed Cousins and moved on from Ryan I may turn in my fan card. Just think that would be a ridiculous move.
     
  28. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

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    Drew Brees with Phillip Rivers behind him? Dumbest move in SD Chargers history!
     
  29. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I can still say that it hasn't happened when the incumbent had less than 10 years in the league.
     
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  30. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    I actually agree with you. Tannehill is the QB and we should draft some defensive help at 11. But I'm just making a point to the people that think drafting a QB it is stupid and could never happen. It has happened.
     
  31. Avigatorx

    Avigatorx Sec. 107 Row 2

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    How many more restrictions and modifiers do you want to add to your criteria?
     
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  32. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    He's good at that.
     
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  33. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    Somewhat different. Brees was still on rookie contract. Smith and Brady on 3rd or 4th and Tannehill on 2nd.

    But yeah that was a mistake by the Bolts.
     
  34. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Just my original restrictions. Solid starting QB that is not at the end of their career.
     
  35. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Based on Brees' performance up to that point, they had little choice.
     
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  36. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Miami drafting a QB in the first would be stupid. It is unlikely to happen and I predict it won't.
     
  37. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I'm sorry but Jimmy was drafted to be Tom's back up. Not to challenge him for the starting roll. And Tom was never threatened by Jimmy, that's just ludicrous
     
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  38. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    Hugh? His 4th season was better than anything Tannehill has ever done.

    And thanks to ISS for bring up Brees and furthering my point. Sample size is now 3 for 3
    Brees went from 67 passer rating to over 100 when threatened with Rivers joining the team.
     
  39. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    He's been saying this for a long time. In another thread I can't remember which one but he laid out the last 10 to 15 years of drafting quarterbacks with an incumbent in place. I'd like to think he could post it again.
     
  40. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Thank you, in fact I posted this in August 2017

     

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