When did Dolphins fans officially turn on Ireland?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SkapePhin, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    For the most part, I've always held a neutral position on Ireland. I felt he was an average GM who has made some good moves, and some bad moves, but for the most part performed OK in terms of talent evaluation, especially compared to previous Dolphins GMs. I did come to a turning point mid season where I wanted him fired along with Philbin for his handling of the OL which was a dumpster fire early on. I though the state of the OL was inexcusable and was tanking our season. That being said, I said at the start of the season that if this team got to the playoffs, Ireland is safe, and I still hold that position.

    While I have been rather neutral on him, it seems like the vast majority have been fervently against him for several years. I am interested to know what was the turning point of public opinion on Ireland.

    Was it Dez-gate? To me, that seems the most likely as I remember the backlash being strong and his rep never really returning. Or was it more gradual with the constant 7-9 seasons? Can you pinpoint the exact moment when you or the vast majority of fans became anti-Ireland? And how has that opinion changed over the years?
     
  2. Stills&Landry

    Stills&Landry Well-Known Member

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    IMO it was ever since Sparano's lame duck renovation after Harbaugh turned us down.

    They all should have been fired right there and then.

    Not that I didn't like Ireland but if you clean house you bring out the bleach and the Lysol and every abrasive chemical at once.
     
  3. SCall13

    SCall13 Finheaven QB

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    The moment he was hired for the most part.
     
  4. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    I have also been neutral on Ireland but I started to feel some resentment towards him when he stab his friend (Tony Sparano) in the back with that trip to San Francisco. Even if Ireland was toeing the company line by going to California with Ross, he should have let Sparano know what was going on.
     
  5. Stills&Landry

    Stills&Landry Well-Known Member

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    That didn't bother me nearly as much as the evidence that we had lost faith in the project but stuck with it when option A fell through... pathetic.
     
  6. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I had forgotten about that. I agree, that was a true **** move. But I don't care if the GM is a **** as long as he is bringing in talent. Ireland has had his draft failures, specifically in 2nd and 3rd rounds, but he has also hit on every first rounder and a ton f late draft picks, so it's a bit of a wash, although I would absolutely love to see some 2nd round hits. His OL acquisitions have also been hit or miss.

    I think a lot of his problems are personality based. He doesn't endear himself to players or media, and that has come back to haunt him on occasion. But it seems his talent acquisitions are starting to come together with the one essential ingredient (QB) in the mix.
     
  7. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    The Dez thing was more embarrassment than anything. I really don't care about that. For me the turning point was the Pat White pick. A 2nd round pick for that dude was just pure stupidity. Also, he's just picked guys I wasn't very high on. In 2009 when we picked Vontae Davis it surprised me...when our pick came I was literally trying to decide if we were going to pick Hakeem Nicks or Clay Matthews...I was happy that we were going to get a serious need and playmaker and then we picked Vontae. Then in the 2nd round I thought Max Unger was a no-brainer and we took Pat White!! You want to know who was available between the Pat White and Sean Smith picks? How about Connor Barwin, Max Unger, Andy Levitre, LeSean McCoy, Paul Kruger, Sebastian Vollmer and William Beatty....and we took freakin PAT WHITE!!!

    The next year we traded down because he wanted to recoup the 2nd round pick we lost in the Brandon Marshall trade...quantity over quality. We could have had Earl Thomas who I wanted but we instead got Jared Odrick...Odrick has been solid and a much better fit in the 4-3 which is not what he was drafted to play mind you, but we passed on a playmaker in Earl Thomas. Some people wanted Jason Pierre-Paul, some wanted Dez Bryant that year. I was also very high on Demaryius Thomas but we passed up playmakers for the safe pick...the D-line.

    I'll just say that Tannehill was the first time he picked someone in the first round that I really wanted.
     
  8. Stills&Landry

    Stills&Landry Well-Known Member

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    Pat White was all Tuna-Sparano-Henning...

    They authored that monster called "The Wildcat".

    Back then Ireland was hardly mentioned, it was all Tuna and Sparano on here and the news, Ireland was low profile.
     
  9. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    He was the GM, if he wasn't making the picks then he should give his salary back to the Dolphins organization. If he wasn't making the picks, then what was he doing? Why was he getting paid?
     
  10. ProStyle

    ProStyle Banned Hammered

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    When he drafted Vontae and SS, and did not resign Goodman.
     
  11. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    I think someone mentioned that awhile ago. Ireland was trying to come across as a mini-Parcells but didn't have the credentials to pull it off. Parcells because of his reputation could pull off being a butt-wipe to people but Ireland couldn't because he didn't have that reputation.
     
  12. Stills&Landry

    Stills&Landry Well-Known Member

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    While I sure haven't enjoyed our team being his school he sure has developed and if things don't go "Rick Spielman" he might eventually...

    That guy saw a talented Dolphins team inherited to him fall apart and did a marvelous job putting that Vikes team only to end up dismantling it...
     
  13. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    I am happy with Ireland, and don't want to replace him unless there is a "can't miss" type to put in his place. There were several picks I didn't like, but I love the way he has handled the cap and don't reach for a lot of players that some here wanted. The team has a lot of young talent that once they are developed could turn into some great picks. Is he perfect, no. But changing GMs every year is a recipe for disaster. We are SOO much better now than we were just two years ago and are heading in the right direction if you ask me.
     
  14. aquaman54

    aquaman54 Starter

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  15. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    When he made the 2nd Brandon Marshall trade - got horrible value for him. Also, when someone posted his picture wearing shorts.
     
  16. phishxhead

    phishxhead Ring Of Honor

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    Actually we aren't much better talent wise - except at QB and coaching. Without T-hill its possible we would have a worse record than we had 2 years ago. This is the misconception that people have around here after winning a couple games IMO. You could argue that we had more talent 2 years ago, outside of QB.

    You can take a look for yourselves....

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/lineups.htm
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2013
  17. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    That's usually the difference between teams making the playoffs or not.
     
  18. Dolphins7273

    Dolphins7273 Banned Hammered

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    When they started out 0-7 his fourth year.
     
  19. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Donator

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    I like Ireland so never...
     
  20. IL Lusciato

    IL Lusciato Banned Hammered

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    i honestly cant stand when anyone points out draft picks and who we "could have drafed instead" its such utter and complete nonsense.

    for any guy who is a star, you can look up where he got drafted, and then go down the line and find probably at least half the league "missing" on the pick. its so annoying.

    I think guys stopped liking him really for no reason at all.

    I think it is all about one person - CHAD HENNE. this was a parcells pick, and it did not work out, and when your QB is not a franchise QB, you sink.

    Parcells catches a ton of CRAP around here because we only had one division title and one playoff appearance with his regime so far, but people forget he changed the culture here to an extent.

    I dont think Ireland was ever bad at all - there is ONE REASON FOR THIS - JUST ONE, and it goes like this:

    Look at the 2009 Offensive line. It was SOLID, we were leading the league in rushing. Then all the sudden, sparano decided to constantly shuffle the line every damn down, and i have no idea why. Several of those guys that were on that line are now starting elsewhere in the league, it makes no sense. Couple that with Henne, and that is why we could never get over the hump PERIOD. Ireland brought in Reggie Bush, Brandon Marshall, Cam Wake, OV, Hartline, Clay etc.

    Philbin didnt want some of those guys and they are now gone, and really ireland was just building what parcells and sporano wanted - and they sucked in this day and age to an extent, but ONE YEAR after philbin wanted a diff breed of player, this man has brought in the right guys, and more importantly, Philbin has gotten production out of Irelands "groceries" .



    Another thing to add - If we lose Ireland after this season its a str8 up SIN. That is b/c - watch this team, the reason we are strong in December is mostly due to DEPTH. we have FINALLY after years of anquish built DEPTH on this team, that allows us to compete all season. Ireland has had a huge hand in building up this depth. I'm sick of this "what have you done lately" mentality in the NFL. look around the league - the best, perennial contenders stick with the same management and usually the same coaches for years at a time. Trying to strike gold every 3 years is just dumb, it rarely works.

    That is also why everyone with the "clean house you get everyone" mentality is also dead wrong. Ross had it right. its showing. keep ireland.
     
  21. tcdrover

    tcdrover Pro Bowler

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    When Tony was canned it started and when dez cried to the media it snow balled.

    I don't really have a problem with Ireland at least not based on the martin fiasco and any of those reasons above.

    He could do a better job of spotting talent, but he is probably in the top 10 of GM's if you analyze intelligently how the team is budgeted and run.

    No GM bats 1000, there are none that come close to batting 1000. There are many angles to that job that most Monday morning Qbs are not capable of understanding
     
  22. Ed Norton

    Ed Norton Scout Team

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    I thought it was funny when they flew out to California and tried to replace the meatball. The talking heads in the NFL are all disgusted and they disgust me anyway so screw em. It's what I wanted the Dolphins to do. Boo hoo if Tony loses his multi million dollar job that he clearly doesn't deserve while people act like some middle class guy is about to get laid off and can't feed his family. The only thing that pissed me off was keeping him for 2011 but whatever I guess they couldn't find anybody better and the crappy season we had to put up with did land Tannehill. I'm not even completely sold on Tanny yet but he is starting to look almost elite, he has a good chance to be a pretty good QB. These last couple weeks he has really looked like he is starting to master this game!

    The pass I'll give Ireland for now is that he has had to change gears and work with a Philbin team after trying to build a meatball team. This team has caused a lot of concern this year, it hasn't been pretty but a 10 win season and I can't complain if Ross wants to plow ahead next year with the combination of Philbin and Ireland.
     
  23. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

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    [h=1]Bill Parcells: Pat White selection 'was my mistake'[/h]http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...ake-long-042511_1_selection-pat-white-mistake



     
  24. Patrick_Bateman

    Patrick_Bateman Rookie

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    I lost my **** during that draft, in fact I got in such a huge fight with my gf at the time that we ended up breaking up shortly thereafter (but she was a ***** so I guess I should be happy with Jeffy for that one LOL)
     
  25. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    When he flew out to California with Ross. It showed more than anything that he's just a Ross puppet and a yes man. He should've been fired along with Sparano. Also, Joe Rose has told some stories about him on the air that make him sound like a complete jerk.
     
  26. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    The writing was on the wall for me in 2011 when we had just come off a losing season and he effectively stood pat in upgrading the team for the most part. There's an old adage that applies to the NFL: if you're standing still, you're going backwards. We stood still and started the season 0-7.
     
  27. JCfinfan

    JCfinfan FinHeaven VIP

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    When he was a ball boy with chicago
     
  28. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think a lot of that had to do with Sparano's lame duck status. That was the worst decision Ross made. It essentially kept us in limbo. Ireland had assurances he was safe, but Sparano did not. As such, what sense did it make to go after a QB for a coach who not be here in a year and the future coach may not want? 2011 was a wasted year all around...

    And who knows, maybe it was a strategic move to get a high draft pick in a loaded QB draft...
     
  29. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    My question is different. Why the hell were we paying Parsells 7 million a year only to be golfing? Then he pops in with Pat White and kept his eye on him in practice.....ay yi yi. he was watching his screwup screw the fins.

    It is clear to me that when Parsells was gone, Ireland put his stamp on, but also gave into Sparano on Jerry and maybe others.

    The difference here is Philbin and his big picture GB offense. If Philbin doesnt want Ireland around, Im cool with it, but they better have someone they can work with because thats asking for trouble.

    I like Philbin. I think he is a much better coach than given cred for. It doesnt alway pan out due to players, injuries, ect. but this guy knows what he wants and its starting to show. Tannehill is tied to Philbin tied to Ireland.
     
  30. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    This got me thinking about how Ireland said he had his eyes on Tannehill the year before. So Ross hires Philbin who hires Tannehills college HC who will run the same system. So I wonder if Ireland actually was in Philbins corner in the aspect of he could fit with what we may end up drafting. Its a little far out, but possible. I know ireland wanted the other guy, but Ireland's plans were what sold Ross IMO and he would agree with whatever else Ross wanted and they would act collaboratively.
     
  31. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Thats not right. How can an owner who's name is not Jerry Jones be a puppet master to his GM?

    a puppet is where the master is controlling the strings. I dont think Ross is controlling the strings.
     
  32. 72champagne

    72champagne the annual ritual

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    oh yeah. what stories?
     
  33. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    So he has no balls then. Sure Mr. Parcells, you can draft whoever you want and put my name on it. Sure Mr. Ross, I'll stand pat for a season and take that bullet. Sure Mr. Philbin, I'll trade away the teams best players...

    He's a fool or has no balls, either way I don't like him.
     
  34. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    ?

    What can he do? He didn't have the authority to fire Sparano. Not sure what you wanted him to do in that spot... Didn't he trade for Bush that year? That wasn't exactly standing pat. I agree he didn't really go heavy on upgrades that season, but the uncertainty around Sparano was a major reason for that.

    I agree he was a major **** in the way he stabbed his old friend Sparano in the back, but I really don't care if the GM is an ahole. Unlike the HC, a GM doesn't need to lead men, he just needs to find them.
     
  35. CRAZYDOLFAN305

    CRAZYDOLFAN305 We Are Still Going To The SB

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    Ill tell you when my support for him begin to grow. When I did my research on past GM and it resulted with me finding out that most of the successful teams, their GM'S were part of their franchise for at least 5 years or more in some capacity. EI head scout, player personnel and etc. And if they stuck around the 6th year they all had some kind of success. Now, I thought about the constant changes this franchise have done since we ran SHULA out of town. And I looked back at the picks he was responsible for for the Dallas Cowboys. I looked back at the teams that survived with a GM for that lenght of time and how the owner's owners stuck with them. At the time he was giving the title of GM he was one of the youngest GM'S in the history of the league. I learned about his dad and how he was around the '84 bears and the way he came up through the ranks. Now that his QB's that achieves a rating of 90 or higher are a combine 26 and 11. 15 games above .500. Add the fact that we have lost the most games by the fewest margin since he has taken over and void of talent we were when he did take over. In 08 we had just one drafted player just 5 or 6 players from a decade of drafting. .

    Sent from my phone, not that my grammar was prefect to begin with. Just wanted to say that before I get attacked by the big bad boogy mod..
     
  36. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Thats some brilliant logic. The best QBs typically start for 10+ years so lets give Cleo Lemon at least 10 more years....
     
  37. Marino420TD

    Marino420TD Seasoned Veteran

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    So instead of suck for luck, we tanked for Tanny?
     
  38. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Around year 3 or 4 after he first arrived
     
  39. CRAZYDOLFAN305

    CRAZYDOLFAN305 We Are Still Going To The SB

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    wtf does cleo have to do with ireland?
     
  40. MadDog 88

    MadDog 88 Smoke 'em Jay Finheaven VIP

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    If the report of his overruling Philbin about cutting Incognito in May 2012 is true, I have no use for him.
     

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