Why Burke might be getting a mulligan...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by NBP81, Jan 13, 2018 at 9:33 AM.

  1. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    There's this ongoing discussion on the boards about why there are no changes being made on the defensive coaching staff. Most are disapointed in Harris for his lack of production as a pass rusher, and overall the whole pass rushing unit was kind of meh this season. Well I think I know, right or wrong, why they think they're not that far off. Keep in mind we have heard them say A) they built the defense to play with a lead and B) Gase is very confident in his offense capabilities... To say the least.

    Here are some stats comparing the team when playing with a lead, and playing from behind. Note that the D played 561 snaps from behind, and only 196 play with a lead.

    Stat-trailing-leading
    Rushing Y/A- 4.4.....3.9
    1st%-12%.....5%
    TD%- *Sample size not big enough for ratios, but D allowed only 1 rushing TD all season when playing with a lead
    Passing Y/A- 6.8.....5.8
    Comp% - 66% - 60%
    INT- 2.....5 *Note that we have more than twice as many INTs, despite playing less than half the snaps...
    PassTDs - 16.....4 *This is significant
    QBrating - 103.....71*This too

    Now, while the difference is significant between both scenarios, I would assume that this can be observed to some extent with every NFL team. But I could see a case where Gase blames himself and the whole offense for the disparencies in number of snaps between playing with a lead and trailing. The thinking here is that bringing that ratio to 50/50, will in itself elevate the defense to at least an acceptable level.

    And the way to change that ratio is by creating offense...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 9:44 AM
  2. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

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    The best defense is a good offense?
     
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  3. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    You don't run a defensive scheme to play with a lead. You build a defense to dominant an offense.:rolleyes:
     
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  4. artdnj

    artdnj Time is Now Finheaven VIP

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    Burkes a risky decision, he may be great or terrible. I am not too impressed with his scheme thus far but I'll trust Gase for a year on this one. My eyes tell me we need much more pressure on the QB and of course better lb play.
     
  5. artdnj

    artdnj Time is Now Finheaven VIP

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    says a defensive minded coach as opposed to an offensive one like we have. I agree with the def mind.
     
  6. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Yeah I didnt say I agreed either way. Although the fact that NFL defenses play better when the team is leading is a real thing...

    Who would you say had the most dominant defense this year?
     
  7. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    I think you have a point. Look at the Texans D when they had anemic O performances? The Rams? Etc

    You cannot continue to score 7 ish pounts every first half and expect success - not to excuse blown coverages in the secondary or LB play but the offense MUST be much better.

    Btw totally off topic but speaking of a Lb some were intersted in.

     
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  8. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    I would say that Jags D had a heck of a year, off the top of my head.
    I’m all for building Strong D and runnning game. Take a look at Ryans QB rating off play action.
     
  9. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    I would have to go with the Vikings. They only gave up a little more than 15pts/game.
     
  10. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Ok lets go with MIN and JAC as 2 of the best D in 2017...

    • MIN was top 10 in both 1st quarter and 2nd quarter scoring offense
    • JAC was top 10 in 1st quarter scoring offense
    • JAC played better defense when playing with a lead *AND* snaps with a lead: 552---- Snaps trailing: 275
    • MIN D played better defense when playing with a lead *AND* snaps with a lead: 579----Snaps trailing: 163
    And don't get me wrong, the defense plays a role in being in position to play with a lead, but you still need the offense to score points in order to do so.
     
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  11. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    We've heard this playing with a lead BS before but it's just that, BS. This is an offense that plenty of time gave up long drives to start off the game. No defense starts the game with a lead. Last time I look all the games start 0-0. When it comes to the lack of a pass rush.......we always hear that it's easier when you know the other team is going to pas. Ok, how many times did we see the other team's offense on a 3rd and long situation and yet the QB had all day to pass and our defense gave up the 1st down? Heck even Burke said that playing with the lead thing was BS. He called it like it was. He said we didn't have the right guys to cover the TE's and RB's. The problem with our team is that the standard has gone down and down. We have a 1st round DE that had two sacks but people are happy he played 16 games. We have a WR that catches a bunch of 3 yard passes and some people think he's Jerry Rice......heck even Gase is saying Pouncey's the best Center in the NFL when the fact is that he's not even the best Center in his family. It's all one excuse after the other. Last year it was that "the defense is tired because our offense can't score"......then our defense would give up a TD drive to start off the game. Were they tired just by running into the field? gtfo

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  12. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    NFL defenses play better with a lead, it's not BS, it's a fact...
     
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  13. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Wow! Didnt take long...
     
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  14. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think the D was just bad most of the time.

    When the D did look good, I honestly chalk that up more than anything to opposing teams stupidly trying to test our corners rather than just abusing our linebackers. We beat the Patriots because of that. Most people think that the Patriots have the best coaching staff in the NFL (they're probably right), and that they're geniuses who never screw up (absolutely not right). They kept throwing the ball at Xavien Howard rather than Kiko Alonso, and that's why we beat them.

    If Burke comes back in 2018, and we actually have better personnel for him to work with, he needs to show results.
     
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  15. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Does Gase really believe the “we are built to play w the lead BS”, or is that just coach speak to give the unit some air cover?
     
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  16. artdnj

    artdnj Time is Now Finheaven VIP

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    I like pressure so i like what the Jags do. Also impressed with NE play as they step it up in big times.
     
  17. artdnj

    artdnj Time is Now Finheaven VIP

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    Also remember Gronk was out. I think kiko would still be chasing him if he played that game.
     
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  18. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I agree that overall, the Fins D is bad, but I also believe that the offense made them look even worst... BUT I also think they're not that far off, like 2 good LBs would bring them back to at least top 15... McMillan might be 1.

    Well, every defense plays better with the lead so it's not entirely BS, but saying this specific D is built to play with the lead... Well this is how they all work...
     
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  19. artdnj

    artdnj Time is Now Finheaven VIP

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    I admit it, i wanted him bad. Goes to show you win some lose many
     
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  20. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Those great Ravens defense didn't have a very good offense. They didn't hide behind the offense didn't give them the lead. Sure every defense can play better with a lead but a lot of the time the reason our defense didn't play with a lead was because they couldn't hold a lead and sometimes they allowed the other team to score first. I have no problem with you or anyone else thinking we have a good defense that can't play better because of the offense but most people here know what time it is. The defense was just bad and if they need the lead in order to play good then they're just not very good in the first place.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  21. AJ Duhe

    AJ Duhe FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I hate to go back to a familiar theme, but I think the Patriots example is illustrative in this case. In the beginning of the season, the Patriots were vulnerable because the defense was giving up points inexplicably. Big plays were happening all over the field. Patricia tightened it up eventually and the philosophy changed. The Patriots don't have explosive pass rush talent or athletes to create turnovers, so they became a bend don't break defense. Once a team got in the red zone, Patricia went to 3 rushers and created impenetrable zones on the back end with 6 sometimes 7 DBs. Sure, you could challenge that defense by running the ball, but the Pats know that most coaches abandon the run as they get near the end zone, and because the defense was often in zone looks, the DBs could usually sniff out the run and beat blockers to the ball. The Pats are fine giving up field goals, because they're betting on Brady and the offense scoring enough points to eventually beat your 4-5 field goals.

    The Dolphins defense has no philosophy. We run an attacking front, but then we play a soft zone on the back end behind it. We take our big-bodied DBs who excel in press and then play them 8 yards off the receiver. We watch our linebackers get burned in man coverage time and time again, yet we continue to play them in obvious passing situations. How often do we play dime coverage? It's almost zero percent.

    It's not just the philosophy, it's not just the scheme, it's not just the players, it's all three.
     
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  22. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'm not even disagreeing you Danny, I'm trying to figure out why all the changes that are being made are on the offensive side of the ball. What are they seeing that we arent... Looking at the stats I noticed that A) The defense played much better when the team had the lead, and B) that didnt happen very often this season... My honest opinion is that A) while the D was bad overall, the offense made it look even worse B) We are 2 good LBs from being decent...
     
  23. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Trust me, I'm curious as well as to why the whole defensive staff is still in place after the defense not being very good for the two years they have been in place. This is the part that bothers me about Gase. I believe he's still seeing himself as an OC instead of as a HC that is in charge of the whole team. He needs to start making up excuses for HIS defense and start holding everyone accountable ob BOTH sides of the ball

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  24. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Stills&Landry

    Stills&Landry Well-Known Member

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    He's getting a Mulligan cause Jenkins' body gave up, he walked in FA, Hewitt got injured and cut too and he was left with no weakside LB. One of the most important positions in a cover two. Then he lost his MLB playing him waaaay out of position at Will. Then he lost his rookie Sam and his replacement was the guy you intended to play at Mike and went AWOL. The mess at LB and to a lesser degree at S doomed him. Everyone gets injuries but I think Gase and TBaum are taking ownership for mishandling the defensive personnel.
     
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  26. zach attach

    zach attach A True Fan Donator

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    The bottom line for me is this. Look what happened in the second NE game. Defense was electric. We played man, and threw off Brady's timing. But that type of defense can be used for all teams.
    If Burke can dial up a defense for that game, then why not every game?
    When we had Surtain and Madison, they played man, and they were awesome.
    Since the board has been hot on coaching continuity lately, I'll agree that Burke needs another couple of years to fine tune himself and the scheme.
     
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  27. Stills&Landry

    Stills&Landry Well-Known Member

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    What do you think the difference between the first and the second game was? No Gronk. And it's not to downplay the win but it was the reason why we could play press. Did you guys catch Wake getting holding penalties on TEs on the last few games? We gave up on even trying to cover them. That allowed us to play man.
     
  28. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    This ownership has continually given mulligans to all involved as the fans suffer
     
  29. Anvil35

    Anvil35 Leave Users Titles Alone!! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Minnesota
     
  30. Anvil35

    Anvil35 Leave Users Titles Alone!! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Those Raven defenses had Ray Rice running the ball on offense from '09 to 12!!
     
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  31. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran Finheaven VIP

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    There's certainly some truth in that. Miami's defense played well early in the season, but the offense was so bad that they wore down.

    That said, there is a serious lack of speed on defense. Teams don't have to do much to have success against the Dolphins defense, rarely needing to make the big plays down the field. Because of that, the pass rushers are negated to some extent.

    I think if the team can improve the speed significantly, opponents will have less success with those quick passes to the perimeter that just eat Miami alive.

    As to Burke, he's certainly still learning on the job IMO. I think the second NE game saved him.
     
  32. LANGER72

    LANGER72 A True Fan

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    Burke and his staff are mediocre. Results are mixed.
    Give the man a raise!
     
  33. outlawd2u

    outlawd2u Pro Bowler

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    Ummm... you generally don't play from behind without the defense giving up points first.
     
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  34. russdoe

    russdoe Rookie

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    I agree with the idea of our defense designed to play with a lead. The 9 wide scheme supports a fast edge rusher at the expense of running up the gut. With the improvement of run defense this year, I believe the front office only wants to improve the pass rush.
    I wish we went back to a flex defense we used a few years back when we had Solai. 4-3 base and 3-4 mixed in. Also, press-man coverage with good cover safetys would take away quick passes and allow time for a pass rush.
     
  35. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    It does if the HC believes his team Offense not only can be effective, or good, but thinks his Offense can be great. Though I agree with you. that a defense either can play well in all points of a game, or it's not a good defense, I do still want to see how good they can play when Miami's Offense can at least be effective.
     
  36. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    AND with fewer missed assignments AND ability to cover TEs
     
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  37. mfish41

    mfish41 It is what it is Donator

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    I don't think he makes the defense better. He isn't a coach that can make up for deficiencies in personnel.
     
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  38. Stills&Landry

    Stills&Landry Well-Known Member

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    Only two posible ways I could think we could have worked around the decline and subsequent departure of Jenkins and Hewitt would have been either Michael Thomas or Reshad Jones at FS and McD moved to weakside.

    We would have been coal charred deep.
     
  39. johngarry

    johngarry "Mysterious" Super Donator Donator

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    a mulligan is a 2nd opportunity to make the s*** swing. fix the swing (i.e., problem) or don’t play.
     
  40. elite14eva

    elite14eva Yashu Mane!!! Donator

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    I don't think he's going anywhere I could only hope though
     

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