Why didnt we just concentrate on fixing 2013 problems?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by normaniii, Apr 18, 2014.

  1. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    2013 in my mind we had 5 issues which needed resolving:-

    1-Mike Sherman. His playcalling was atrocious and the snap issue was laughable.
    2-Jim Turner. If your area of expertise is one of the worst in league then heads must roll.
    3-Offensive line. One of worst in league and only one real starter returning.
    4-Running game. Partly due to offensive line but also need another RB to compete or start.
    5-Run defense. In my mind this was more to do with LB play as opposed to D'line.

    Why not then stick then with what was working and then concentrate on what was not? Or is that too simple in today's NFL. For example, our pass D was very good, yet we let Nolan Carroll and Chris Clemons go and sign for others on very cheap contracts.

    In my mind we fixed the top 2 issues with the hirings of Lazor & Benton, yet threw away over $5m in salary cap by replacing Carroll & Clemons with Finnegan & Delmas. You have to consider this together with the fact that Zach Strief and Geoff Shwartz, both of the highest rated FA O'lineman available, both signed contracts avg. just over $4m/year.

    We now go into the 2014 draft, with a word I hate using come draft day 'needing' an Offensive lineman. This in my mind is made worse by the fact that at #19 there are two players in Mosley & Shazier, one of which will definitely be available, but have dropped due to position value would have fixed our poor LB play.

    I love the Moreno signing but why didnt we continue along fixing our problems rather than creating new ones? We could have stuck with Carroll & Clemons, challenged for the signing of Zach Strief and gone into 2014 draft knowing there was a massive possibility of Mosley or Shazier being available at #19.

    With the additions of Shelley Smith, Fox & Moreno, together with Mosley or Shazier being drafted we would have fixed the issues of 2013 while also sticking with what worked.

    Again is this too simple for todays NFL?
     
    MartinTheSNAKE likes this.
  2. truedolfan57

    truedolfan57 A True Fan

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    i guess you are already assuming carroll and clemons both wanted to stay, and not test the FA market? And i guess assuming that just because a team wants a player, they automatically get them? No one knows what really happens behind closed doors. There's a great possibility that miami did contact all highly graded FA lineman, but the players themselves might not have wanted to play for miami. Of course, miami could have blown all their money and offered contracts that can't be passed up, but then miami might be in cap hell.
     
  3. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    Good post OP. While I'm not inclined to draft LB in the first. I couldn't agree more with your assessment of last year.

    We lost our best pass protector in Jake Long and our best pass protecting TE in Fasano and we replaced it with nothing. Sims might have been meant to address the pass pro TE, but he stinks. He was not special in college and didn't project well to the pros. Bad draft choice.

    We also lost our best run blocker, Jake Long again, and our best run blocking TE, Fasano. It's like a broken record ... and Ireland was surprised we couldn't block anyone ... really.

    We lost our starting RB and out top two TD producers, Bush and Fasano. At least Miller was a decent RB replacement, but given the state of the OL he never stood a chance. Keller is a possession WR, not really a TE. He cannot pass protect nor run block. He signals pass play whenever he is on th field. And most importantly, he wasn't likely to be on the field. An older player withe injury history ... bad choice IMHO.

    With 4 picks in th top 3 rounds we draft all defense except for the crappiest reserve tweener OL in the draft. THIS was someone attempting to draft BP and not addressing OL/TE needs in free agency or the draft. Disaster.

    You could see it in Mike Sherman's face after the draft. He got hung out to dry. No Lane Johnson at LT to replace Long. No Tyler Eifert at TE to replace Fasano, no upgrade to John Jerry at OG. Nothing. Just an injury prone possession WR masquerading and a TE and retreads from a horrific OL to protect our young franchise QB an fail to open holes for our young scatback.

    Recipe for disaster. We were lucky to do as well as we did given that glaring hole.

    This year it may not be sexy, but at least we are starting to address the team needs. Assuming we get two starting caliber OL early in the draft, maybe we can compete.

    Failing to address needs in both free agency and the draft is a cardinal sin. You can choose to fill most of your needs through free agency or look for bargains in free agency, but the needs must be filled. That is how you build a football team.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
     
  4. EireTiger

    EireTiger Starter

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    Leet's see how the draft plays out before we comment here. It could be that the Dolphins have anumber of OL graded very high and feel very confident that we'll get one of them. Remember, Lazor was onthe college staff that recruited and coached Moses Morgan so that is information on a player that most people have available at our 1st round pick. If we get an OT, OG and a LB in the draft we will have addressed all of the needs you point out and improved in other areas. I think your comments about losing Long, Bush and Fasano last offseason are spot on. Those three losses are very rarely brought up and would have had us in th eplayoffs last year. However, what have we done this offseason:

    Offense:
    Albert> McKinnie (Better and younger)
    Smith> Brenner
    Moreno>current RBs and they are all back so no worry of decline
    Fox and Williams provide depth.

    Defense:
    Mitchell>Soliai (Better and younger)
    Delmas> Clemons (Better and younger)
    Finnegan>Carroll or Patterson
    Jordan, Taylor and Davis coming off of limited reps due to injury are like new rookies/free agents who could add significatn value this year.

    There's a lot of reasons to be optimistic we'll improve upon our 8-8 record of last year. The comments about how much we spent have no merit, we still have $16M in cap room, enough to sign anyone that you have mentioned with money left over. It's not amoney issue. Let's see how the draft goes....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2014
  5. MartinTheSNAKE

    MartinTheSNAKE Seasoned Veteran Donator

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    100% agree. I have been saying this. We were only a few moves away from being a playoff contender. Would have rather have kept Carroll over rolling the dice on Finnegan. Clemons had a great season, why not bring him back?

    Instead we spent extra money on other players when that money could have been used in the future or for signing needs at other positions. Maybe we could have went that extra 1.5-2 millions for a premier starting RT, instead of rolling the dice in the draft.

    I like that we addressed LT and LG in FA... So now the left side looks good but what about the right? Could have added a starting RT too and focused on more skill positions in the draft.

    This is what drives me crazy about this team. Hopefully all the moves pan out, but i feel like we could have kept things simple this offseason and came away with a better team.
     
  6. VCU2000

    VCU2000 Well-Known Member

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    Clemons was great but he had to take a cheap deal weeks into FA? He was average at best. I'd rather take a chance on a guy that can makes plays when healthy. Clemens was just another guy.


    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
     
  7. mega-fin-love

    mega-fin-love Just trust me Donator

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    I could not agree more. Hated everything we did with the DB's. Iv'e said this before and I'll say it again....We paid more money just to downgrade our DB's. Money should have been spent somewhere else.
     
  8. BSQ

    BSQ Scout Team

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    He's trying to upgrade with better playmakers. Hickey probably looked at the tape and decided that Carroll and Clemons were just average players. Delmas is the big hitter Clemons never was. Much more upside. Same with Finigan over Carroll. The risk is the health of both players.
     
  9. phinasota

    phinasota Bleed Aqua

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    This. We dont know if we didnt try and get the other FA linemen out there. we dont know what really happens because not every move is made public. but i would of liked to get us one more lineman too. because i would rather get a LB with the first in the draft than a OL guy. but thats just me. our run d was horrible last year. AND, with clemmons and carrol, they were soft. our defense missed tackles more than a two dollar hooker gets jobs! we need more physicality on this team... i hope they bring that.
     
  10. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    Think you are over optimistic, no, I think you are completely wrong regarding Soliai, Delmas & Finnegan
     
  11. marinotoclayton

    marinotoclayton Pro Bowler

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    You could go back a step further and critique the last draft! Just think of the two players we could have had if we not traded up for Jordan! Kind of makes you wonder what the makeup of the team would look like! That draft for us probably would look much different than what we drafted! I am not mad about the corner signings both guys are good hard hitting players. I just hope they return to form.
     
  12. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    Last years draft was a disgrace. I like Taylor & Thomas but 2013 was known to have no elite taken but depth throughout first 3 round and we trade up!
     
  13. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    normaniii - I was actually pretty disappointed that we didn't find the relatively modest amount to keep Nolan Carroll. However, Hickey obviously holds Finnegan in much much higher regard. We still don't know what we've got in Jamar Taylor and Will Davis. If Taylor is fully healthy, he could be earmarked for the 2nd starting CB role. Davis should be physically bigger and stronger to compete. We know that his speciality is making sudden interceptions.
    Re Chris Clemmons, I agree with the decision to let him go and I expect Delmas to be an upgrade, if he can remain healthy.
     
  14. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    spiketex - Finnegan for price is a terrible move. IMO Chris Clemons was one of the most underrated players in NFL and Texans have picked up a bargain
     
  15. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Definitely over optimistic. Finnegan hasn't been good the last 2 years, Delmas is nothing special, and Mitchell should prove something before being called better than Soliai. Smith hasn't proven much either.. Just blatant homerism imo
     
  16. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    $2.5 M was decent value for Carroll as a backup but you don't go into the season with him penciled in as your starter....

    Finnegan could be the steal of free agency or he could be a total bust and this signing in particular will tell me a lot about Mr. Hickey.
     
  17. sinPHIN

    sinPHIN A True Fan

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    if mosley is there you have to take him at 19, no questions asked. or try to trade down and grab shazier. just my opinion
     
  18. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    Finnegan is no steal at $5.5m!

    Carroll would have had to compete for a starting spot with Taylor who I like a lot. Our pass D was not the issue last year. Together with Jordan hopefully getting more snaps I would have preferred using the cap room and concentrated on O'line.

    Granted ppl may not have wanted to sign but I'm sure we could have picked up two decent OT's allowing, Garner, Tjomas, Brenner, Shelley Smith and any draftees to compete for Gaurd spots
     
  19. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Again.....as in your other long winded "rush to judgement" Dolphin bashing theads....you assume and your threads make the assumption that your talent evalution skills are superior to the GM's. This is not Madden and your opinion is not fact.

    In my opinion, Clemmons was nothing special and did not make enough plays...same for Carroll.

    I see an improved Defense with the moves made, and while I do wish we could have been successful in getting another quality O-lineman or two in free agency, I realize you can't get everything you want, there are 31 other teams for players to consider.

    I will refrain from Dolphin bashing until I see the final result of the assembled team.
     
  20. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    Why is you opinion better than mine?

    Without questioning, commenting or stating your opinion regarding sports you would have no forums, chat shows, certain newspaper articles or even the most important thing banter with mates.

    Sometimes I wonder why people are on forums?
     
  21. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    One has to admit that Joe is going to look for his fits and have not commitment to Ireland's picks. Just the way it is. Carroll improved last year, but gave up some big throws in even bigger spots.
     
  22. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    Look, im not championing Nolan Carroll here. Im questioning why we would choose to pay more for a player (Finnegan), who played worse and let one who is younger and more familiar with system go.
     
  23. biggrouper

    biggrouper Scout Team

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    New GM - New Direction... Out with some old and in with some new... it was bound to happen.

    Cant we just look to the future with some hope that our new GM knows what he wants and what he wants will translate into better play, playoff berths, playoff wins and a SB ring soon :)

    Also we cannot argue about how player will play this year until we see them actually play and given that Finnegan was visually impaired and in pain but still played through it I am looking forward to seeing him regain his form and lay the wood, he is nasty and aggressive and we seriously lacked that last year... ! I want some attitude!!!
     
  24. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    The pass D may not have been a problem but it wasn't exactly what Philbin wanted it to be either, he wants backs that make plays on the ball, ie create turnovers. Neither Carroll nor Clemmons fit the playmaker bill, sure they were both dependable decent players but we're striving for something more than dependable.

    And if Taylor is as good as you hope he'll get the opportunity to prove it, especially if Finnegan is as bad as you expect.
     
  25. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Opinion is one thing...preemptively bashing with an air of superiority as if the team is stupid is quite another.

    "How to Draft"? Really? How many drafts have you conducted as a GM? "Why Didn't We Just Concentrate on Fixing 2013's Problems?"......Uh, from where I am sitting that is exactly what they are doing!
     
  26. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Because Finnegan has been a playmaker...something Carroll has not been. If you look at Finnegan's history more closely, you'll see a guy who played at a pro bowl level, changed teams and still played well until his injuries in 2013 hampered his play. He had an orbital injury that blurred his vision but the tough guy tried to play through it and it cost him some credit with rush to judgement fans like you.

    Hickey knows the dice he is rolling on Finnegan and knows the whole situation. If we get a motivated healthy Finnegan we will be rewarded big time, as we were with the gamble taken on Grimes.

    I personally see Jamar Taylor winning the starting spot opposite Grimes, and where I really see Finnegan being valuable is in the nickel....this could end up being a very good secondary.
     
  27. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Plus, chances are Finnegan will be no better or worse Carroll so in reality we're spending an extra $2 million in the hopes that Finnegan can return to old form (playmaker) and for his leadership.
     
  28. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    That is an awful lot to pay for a nickel corner, especially when we have jimmy Wilson who I feel played well in nickel last year.

    Look BlueFin, I understand that you want to see things play out etc but just because I have a different view point...... Brave enough to state my opinion and happy enough to be shot down when time comes, you don't have to jump on me everytime :)

    You are criticising me for my opinion as if I not qualified enough, but then who are you to criticise me? Surely that is a little hypocritical?
     
  29. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    I am not claiming to be an expert, just a seasoned fan.

    I get little tired of fellow fans rushing to judgement as if they are superior when we haven't even drafted yet.

    Its ok to give opinions on moves, but to make final judgements like you do in this thread this early is ridiculous and I get tired of the repetitive threads of negativity.

    "Why didn't we just concentrate aon fixing 2013's problems?"........Dude we haven't even drafted yet!

    Thats why it irks me.
     
  30. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    You sound 'irked' and I have no issue with you disagreeing, but going into draft are you genuinely happy with how Hickey handled the FA period? In my mind you can't go into draft needing day 1 starters. At present we absolutely have to get a RT and feel we should have addressed that before we spent money on a CB, regardless whether I like him or not
     
  31. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    Let me just add, I don't hate everything Hickey has done. I like, Smith, Moreno & Delmas, understand the signing of Albert and believe he was spot on with the resignings of Grimes and Starks, just hate the signing if Finnegan and the loss of Clemons & Carroll.
     
  32. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    I would agree that we shouldn't be filling needs in the draft but is it true we absolutely need to get a starting RT on day 1 or 2 of the draft? If I was GM I would go the quantity over quality route and sign 2 or 3 vets (isn't McKinnie and Clabo still out there?) along with one or two other young guys from the draft or elsewhere and let them all compete.
     
  33. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    Agree. I think Clabo would be a good pickup now, together with two OT's throughout draft.
     
  34. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Clabo and good in the same sentence?
     
  35. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    When you go in needing 4 starters on the O-line...and yes most don't agree with your love of Clabo, its a given the draft will be necessary to find a starter or two.

    Most fans who have watched this game for a long time knew we weren't going fill 4 O-line positions in free agency.....rational fans that is.
     
  36. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    'Rational fans'???

    For one I never stated we could have picked up 4 starters, but tbh with the ridicilous pickup of Finnegan you could have picked up another O'lineman.

    Please tell me what is not rational about that?

    What is irrational is paying $11m for a CB who has been one of the worst in league last 2 years but expecting him too play to his level before then. Even worse championing the move and then saying he wil prob end up a nickel corner for $5.5 annually.

    Shooting down fans wanting a RT as opposed to a CB is ridicilous. That is not irrational but looking at 2013 the smart option.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2014
  37. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    The question with Finnegan is whether he still has it. He got injured last year and stupidly played hurt before going on IR. However, says he is now fully recovered. We will soon see. There is a reason why he got the big contract in St Louis 2 years ago. At Tennessee he was one of the highest rated CBs in the game. If he is fully healthy and hasn't aged badly, he can play with great attitude. He can probably irritate receivers better than anyone. Make no mistake, he probably hasn't lost that verbal side to his game. They are speculating that Finnegan will be just playing in the slot, which means that he will be reading the plays and acting like the general on the field. It also means they may have Taylor earmarked for the 2nd CB role, if he's healthy and good enough. Finnegan is the same age as Grimes, who turned out to be a terrific success last year on a one year, show me deal. Finnegan didn't have other great DBs around him in St Louis but he has a lot more support here. It's a risk but if Finnegan is back to full health, he could be good. He is very similar to Grimes re size and playing on instincts (but he has the big verbal attribute, as well). Put them on the field together with a physical hitter like Delmas (you just know he will be looking for blood) and we could be pretty good.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2014
  38. normaniii

    normaniii A True Fan

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    Look I am not against Finnegan being a success. I love the Finnegan from 2 years ago. That is not the point.

    My point is, by choosing and it was a choice, to go with Delmas & Finnegan over Clemons & Carroll, cost us approx $5m this year. In my mind I would have preferred to have used that money to shore up the O'line. That I think would have been the smart and rational option......to fix out weakest unit and protect our biggest asset.
     
  39. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    We have still got money in the war chest - don't worry about the money. I think that we are in the top 6 teams with money up our sleeves and there is talk that we are prepared to negotiate long term deals with Clay and Odrick. Procuring Finnegan and Delmas cost us more but this was not a case of spending money on the O-line or upgrading the secondary. I think they viewed it as spending money on the O-line and upgrading the secondary.
    They obviously think that the quality of talent is there in this year's draft. However, with all of the speculation now about selecting a WR like Marqise Lee or a LB like CJ Mosely in the 1st round as BPA, it's making me a bit twitchy about the O-line. They are clearly doing a good job of creating smokescreens and illusions.
     
  40. russianbear

    russianbear FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    While they did manage to fix most of the problems on your list, one of the things you have to consider is the transition to a new GM. A new GM means new personnel. Any and EVERY GM that comes in here, especially their first year, is going to want their own blueprint. That is one of the problems that has plagued Miami for years....new coaching staffs have brought only one consistency to this football team and that is change. Until something sticks, we are going to recycle players and lack a real identity on and off the field.
     

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