Why Miami Isnt Doomed- A Saints Story

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by zodiak, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. zodiak

    zodiak Starter

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    Dolfans

    I like you want to win very much however all this negative chatter has me annoyed from Ireland is a bum, Ross is an idiot, no great coach will come here, we need leaders blah,blah,blah.

    A Saints Story, why did I use that in the title because if your like me you can remember when the Saints where the Aints and considered the worst team in football.
    Owner Tom Benson was widely considered a bad owner, viewed by many as a laughing stock by insiders(sound familiar) in his desperation to be a winner he hired a "name" head coach (Ditka),that failed- not a surprise.

    Mickey Loomis, who is he, well thats what most Saints fans wondered when he was hired to be GM for Tom Bensons Saints, he brought no pedigree with him he wasnt a boy wonder GM like Scott Pioli had no proven track record like Bill Polian.
    Loomis inherited Jim Hasslett when Loomis was prometed to GM in 2002, after 4 years Loomis replaced Hasslet with Sean Payton.
    Yes Sean Payton one of the best current Head Coaches in the game today, but again was anyone dancing in the streets in early 2006? most likely not, once they learned that Payton while working for the NY Giants as OC in 2002 had his play calling duties taken away by then Giants head coach Jim Fassel.

    The Saints became contenders when the Owner allowed a football guy, his GM to run the team.
    Loomis hired Payton and the team signed Brees, all moves made by an organization not some super star head coach.

    Im in no way suggestion Miami will become successful like New Orleans my point is that perceptions change with winning, I like Jeff Ireland, I believe in Ireland.
    I believe Ross has the correct idea regarding the way the team should be structured( GM seperate from HC ) a simple view of the history of the league shows that with few exceptions( JJ in Dallas, Belicheck in NE) winning teams are set up with seperation of power.

    This hire will be Stephen Ross & Jeff Irelands first hire, I unlike many have no concern over the lack of "star" candidates, this obssession with a coach being a "play caller", seriously?
    Bill Walsh was considered one of the greatest coaches of all time, he was a play caller therefor Mike Holgren didnt get to call plays however he turned out to be a pretty good HC.

    I will reserve critisim or doom and gloom predicitions, I feel the job Ireland has done turning the roster from when he took over as GM in '08( I know about Parcells keeping it simple giving Ireland credit good and bad for all things GM since '08) is a very respectful one.
    All GM's hit and miss with talent, clearly the Miami Dolphins have work to be done by no means are they on the door step of a super bowl, however Im confidant in Ross and his vision of this team to allow time to prove him right or wrong, beacuse I know the Saints story.
     
  2. phinzfan21

    phinzfan21 A True Fan

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    Anything is possible. None of us know the future. Miami could well become a respectable force in the NFL again, or we could linger in mediocrity. The chance for both is there. I think Ireland, overall, has done a decent job. Few misceus, but a number of good moves, and some that are still to be determined. And as far as the new coach, let's reserve judgement till he actually starts camp and gets some games under his belt. I know that will be impossible around here though.
     
  3. malzacher

    malzacher Scout Team

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    Great post! I completely agree with all of this! Everyone needs to remember what we had when Cameron went 1-7 there wasn't an ounce of talent here. But yet Ireland is a bum.
     
  4. DeathStar

    DeathStar Hall Of Famer

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    Drew Brees.

    We have crap at the QB position. And no Matt Moore is not a franchise or good QB.
     
  5. Aqua and Orange

    Aqua and Orange Poster With A Porpoise Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I agree that winning changes perception rather quickly...heck, it had all of us wanting to make sweet love to fatty Bill Parcells after one season...but I think the more important variable in the equation is the hope and change of culture that a new QB brings. The Saints turned into a conversation-starter for other quality free agents and teams within their division the moment Brees was brought in, before he even played a game.
     
  6. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

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    actually quite the opposite. A lot of people felt they still had a LONG way to go before they could be competitive. And Brees himself was criticized for going to a bad team just because they offered a lot of money.

    As great as Brees has been for NOLA, and as much credit as he deserves, it really was a perfect storm to turning that franchise around.
     
  7. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    I agree with this minus Moore is not good. When we solve the franchise QB thang, all else falls into position. I do like that Matt Moore is the caretaker of this transition because I think he could be top ten next year with this offense having full offseason together and some new stud OL.

    QB and OL. You get those two set this year and you have yourself an offense.
     
  8. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    is the next drew brees coming through that door??? if not this is not close to the same situation...
     
  9. SabanHater

    SabanHater ***** in the House!

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    no offense what-so-ever... but you could of wrote the story like this and it would have had the same ending...

    Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. DREW BREES

    Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. WIN SUPER BOWL.

    It's all about the QB. We never address the position so we stay in the middle or near the bottom of the league. They addressed it and now their enjoying successful seasons year in and year out.
     
  10. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    Sean Payton: a former Cowboy coach that is known for being sometimes brutally straight forward and honest. Yeah, sounds just like the kind of guy Ross wants to hire! What a apt comparison.

    Also, Sean Payton was coveted as a head coach by a few teams. Al Davis offered him a head coaching job multiple times apparently.

    By the way, i believe in Ireland to. I believe Ireland will do WHATEVER it takes to keep his job. I believe Ireland will sell out anyone, kiss the *** of anyone, and knowingly draft bad players so long as he can pin the blame elsewhere. Id tell all of this to Irelands face, because if i were to enrage him enough for him to take a swing, id merely say my name was "second round pick" and hed be sure to miss.

    Finally, many on here dont care about "star" head coach. The guys in charge of hiring a head coach on the other hand.....
     
  11. ncmedic5

    ncmedic5 Scout Team

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    Very nicely said. I will be bringing this up tonight on my Finsradio.net show. May even put it up on my site as well, Phinphanatic.com. Too bad more fans haven't pulled themselves off the ledge to look at this in a more realistic way.

    B
     
  12. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    well played...
     
  13. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Uh yea, Miami is doomed for the foreseeable future. This isn't at all comparable to the Saints whatsoever. While they signed Drew Brees, we traded a 2nd round pick for a QB who tore 3 ligaments in his knee. We're a joke franchise. Have been for over a decade. Will remain one as long as we're trotting out mediocre bum Qb's like Matt Moore, clueless GM's like Jeff Ireland, and rummaging through garbage heaps looking for head coaches like Mike McCoy.
     
  14. Phins117

    Phins117 A True Fan

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    Id post about Drew Brees but it seems everyone else has. Yea its one man, but that man pulls the strings on and off the field.
     
  15. zodiak

    zodiak Starter

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    So what you got from this post was its about Drew Brees??? wow

    Some people dont get it! :)
     
  16. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    But you fail to mention one thing, we already know who Jeff Ireland is and he is an idiot. I have no faith that he is capable of making sound decisions for this team. It may happen, but I will not hold my breath.
     
  17. zodiak

    zodiak Starter

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    Why is this excepted among dolfans? did he trade away an entire draft for one player? did he trust his medical staff before his scouting staff?

    Its because he didnt draft Dez Bryant? who cant stay out of trouble? or because he did what 90% of the people that post here would have done when your boss tells you come with me we are going to interview Harbaugh, this one really gets me the fake loyalty people display here half the fans here turn on a player game to game yet act like Ireland should have stood up to Ross.
     
  18. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The Saints did not have a QB like Brees until they took a shot on a Qb who's injury was so severe, he already had one leg out the door.

    ----Things can change very quickly----

    Miami could end up getting Flynn or draft a QB that shows success from the get go.
     
  19. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    On the contrary, it is very comparable. Loomis and Payton did not have Brees on the roster when they took over the Saints and neither had a track record. You are playing a shell game with your arguments. You mention the last 10yrs, then cast aspersions at Moore and Ireland, when they had absolutely nothing to do with this organization 10yrs ago. This is Irelands 1st yr where he has really been in charge and we don't know what direction the franchise will take.
    Your entire post is disjointed.
     
  20. JFoxx

    JFoxx Seasoned Veteran

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    Amen to that!!! So when are we bringing in the great football guy as our GM and get rid of Ireland ? Really, I dont see all this blind faith in a guy who's done next to nothing for us and just figures out how to survive. He has very little talent evaluation skills, asks inappropriate questions of guys coming out of school, completely rolls on his H/C in order to save his job last year, now he's moving to the next level this season between the Fisher deal and now narrowing down any coach search to Coord's that will be very reliant and compliant to him as GM. He's been and continues to be as damaging as any coach we've ever had. Defend him all you want, but until he's gone, we'll never sniff being a serious contender.
     
  21. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    Shell arguments such as comparing the Saints situation to the Dolphins situation? Those kind of shell arguments?

    Countrary to popular belief, Jeff Ireland wasn't cryogenitically frozen in 2008 and only recently thawed.
     
  22. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    Its obvious that you don't even know what a shell game is. You will remain willfully ignorant as long as it fits your narrative. I doubt that you even read the entire opinion piece that started this thread.
     
  23. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    Hmm, perhaps it is a misunderstand about the original post, let me break down the cliffnotes and see if they match what you got.

    Saints owner is bad---->hires Gm----->Gm hires "no name" coach---->winning ensues---->owner deemed brilliant because he allows them to do their job. From there the original poster brings up the Dolphins: have faith in Ireland---->supposedly good Gm if you believe hard enough that he is a good Gm----->Ross has the best idea, though not most original, ever----->fans supposedly want "stars" and "playcallers" while owner and Gm really know whats going on (wink wink)---->brings up more football greats that have utterly nothing to do with this situation---->ends post with conclusion about how we are supposedly following the Saints method.

    Do tell, which part of that isn't absolutely bathed in ignorance?
     
  24. hemidemon

    hemidemon Starter

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    Matt Moore finished the season with a QBR that ranked 12th in the NFL. He may not be a franchise QB, but he is a good QB.
     
  25. hemidemon

    hemidemon Starter

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    Zodiac, this is one of the best posts I've read here. You are 110% correct. I'm tired of all the negitivity on this board. Ross is doing this the right way, and Ireland is a good GM. I think they'll get the right coach.
     
  26. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Well he was this year but until he can do it over a full season and not off and on he still has alot to prove but hell on this site Matt Moore is a good qb and Matt Ryan is a caretaker qb so who knows
     
  27. steviey013

    steviey013 A True Fan

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    See "The Shining" and you will likely not type repetitive words...
     
  28. DefensiveEnd76

    DefensiveEnd76 Football Guru

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    We haven't draft a QB in Round 1 since fricken 1983!!!! We need to find that great QB once and for all!!!
     
  29. Cleetus

    Cleetus Well-Known Member

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    I am still trying to figure out where all this talent is that Ireland found for the team. Ireland has brought mediocre players to the team and it shouldn't surprise that the fins record is mediocre because of this. I am not saying this cannot be fixed, even within a season's time but I do not believe that Ireland is the man to do it. I may be wrong in my assessment of the talent on this team and with a new coach we may yet make the playoffs this year, we shall see.
     
  30. finomenal

    finomenal A True Fan

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    Problem is, you need a GM who will select the right QB first. Can Ireland do that? We'll see.
     
  31. insomnia411

    insomnia411 The world is yours

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    If we had signed Drew Brees in 06, there would be a Saints fan posting a thread on a forum somewhere entitled: "WHY ALL HOPE IS NOT LOST: A DOLPHINS STORY"
     
  32. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    sean payton probably gets fired in new orleans if drew brees doesn't come there...brees is the straw that stirred and still does stir the drink...you take brees out of equation and the saints barring drafting into a franchise qb are still also rans...

    you get that??? i hope so
     
  33. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    no he's not...
     
  34. Krush

    Krush Finaholic Donator

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    Thank you for saying that, I like the way Ross handled the jeff fisher non hire, can you imagine that after 3 years when he is burnt out again or fired, the team will have to hire 2 people HC and GM, so that's why it's best to do it now, good Luck St. Louis because it going to take more than Fisher to turn that debacle around.
     
  35. DDTDON

    DDTDON Seasoned Veteran

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    That's not the point of this post. Why don't you add something constructive and relevant to the post?
     
  36. DDTDON

    DDTDON Seasoned Veteran

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    This is an amazing post. Well thought out and I would like to apologize to Zodiak for these morons who don't know how to read a post. They completely missed the point and all that's on their mind is Brees, Brees, Brees. It is really pathetic and sad.
     
  37. insomnia411

    insomnia411 The world is yours

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    The whole point is that without Drew Brees the Saints never make this turnaround, and we won't find success again until we find a good QB the way that the Saints did... That, coupled with the fact that missing out on Drew Brees (twice) is going to leave a sour taste in some of our mouths forever will lead to the "Brees, Brees, Brees" reaction.
     
  38. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Formerly Fiedler for MVP

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    Yeah its so amazing. Lets all wax poetic about the amazing Saints organization and pretend this team doesnt go as their QB goes. You're playing the result.

    Mickey Loomis was a top executive with Seahawks before taking over in N.O. in 2002. During his tenure, Seattle was at best an also ran, and at worst, one of the worst teams in the league. Im not saying he was fully reponsible, but I doubt he sat in an empty office making Darth Vader voices into a table fan like Tommy Boy. Oh almost forgot, a grand total of 0 zero playoff appearances for the Saints between 2002-2005, coincidentally the 3 years before Brees showed up(and dont play the Katrina card, that only affected the 2005 season).

    Payton is highly regarded as one of the best offensive minds in the game, and rightfully so, but lets not just ignore the fact that he was stripped of his playcalling duties in Dallas.

    Is it really so crazy to believe that Brees made the organization what it is rather than the other way around? I certainly dont think so. Remove Brees from the equation and you have an average running game, a horrific defense that gets bailed out by the offense every week, and the possibility that nobody knows who Colston or Jimmy Graham are.

    And please dont call people morons or other names because they dont agree with yours or someone elses assessments. Thats ridiculous.
     
  39. Dolphins7273

    Dolphins7273 Banned Hammered

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    It may sound pathetic to you, but it's the truth. They took the future hall of famer that we passed up on TWICE. They deserve to be where they are, and we deserve to be where we are. And yeah, I get that he's saying that basically any team can rise, but until that happens, all the negativity towards the front office is well deserved.
     
  40. Tunaphish429

    Tunaphish429 1st Ballot Hall of Famer Donator

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    You never know.
     

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