Without Tannehill, We'd be the Browns (In-depth research)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Aqua4Ever04, Jan 10, 2018 at 6:51 PM.

  1. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 2005
    Messages:
    10,609
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Spent most of the day (don't tell my boss) compiling this information and writing this piece. It's a collection of all the snap counts from players on the OL, at TE, WR and RB from 2012-2016.

    Also, I took the numbers from each of the WRs/TEs, and compared their stats from the time with Miami, and the years after.

    Spoiler alert, everyone got worse after leaving Miami.

    https://www.lockedondolphins.com/tannehill-save/

     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018 at 7:06 PM
  2. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2011
    Messages:
    25,582
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Trophy Points:
    113


    Seriously though,

    I don't know if we'd be the Browns, but to remember people claiming Davone Bess was one of the NFL's elite playmakers while simultaneously arguing that the quarterback couldn't elevate anyone was pretty funny.

    Sadly, the big takeaway from this piece is not that Ryan Tannehill is great, but more that we have surrounded him with hot garbage for most of his time here. I'm pretty sure you couldn't put together a worse OL than the 2015 unit that included Thomas, Turner, Douglas and Fox if you tried. Though in fairness to Jamil Douglas, he was a rookie who was shuffled around to 3 different OL positions he didn't play in college and is still on a roster somewhere.
     
    Ray R, rickd13, Vaark and 2 others like this.
  3. superphin

    superphin Starter Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2003
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The Browns the last 3 years have won 4 games, this year we won 6. If your statement was accurate we should have won between 1-2 games.
     
  4. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Aug 2008
    Messages:
    12,036
    Likes Received:
    780
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Honestly, if the usual debbies don't have the time to read this, or can't comprehend it. Don't post. There will be plenty. For some reason plenty of people on here don't want to actually analyze the player, but would rather just look at win/losses usually.

    Kudos Aqua4ever04 for posting this here, and not exclusively in vip. I hope you're ready to bang your head against the wall to defend your position. You'd think with all the "RT negativity" that poll Vaark posted would have much different results
     
  5. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin PowerHungryMo'fo

    Joined:
    Sep 2004
    Messages:
    4,844
    Likes Received:
    151
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The Browns have a boatload of picks and chitload of cap space by design. If they ever got a competent owner and coach staff they would dangerous.
     
    DolfanDuBbZ~ and John Biello like this.
  6. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2011
    Messages:
    25,582
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fortunately, should-be felon Jimmy Haslam is more interested in defrauding mom and pop trucker operations than running a winning football team.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2018 at 7:38 PM
  7. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    3,730
    Likes Received:
    681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well I think it is high time this FO gets it's act together and put a decent team together.
     
  8. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    18,772
    Likes Received:
    2,770
    Trophy Points:
    113

    They just put a really good FO together. Dorsey is a damn good GM and they signed Wolf today.

    If we arent very careful the Browns will quickly pass us
     
    DolfanDuBbZ~ likes this.
  9. rickd13

    rickd13 Scout Team

    Joined:
    Oct 2005
    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    63
    In all honesty, it really wouldn't take much to pass the Dolphins right now. If the Browns find a capable qb they could easily win six games.
     
  10. Fin Fan in Cali

    Fin Fan in Cali Joanne Shaw Taylor Super Donator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 2004
    Messages:
    33,722
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Brother I think they have already passed our front office with the quality of people they have hired.
     
  11. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 2005
    Messages:
    8,020
    Likes Received:
    491
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Yikes. I'll Like it for the effort and the writing. As legitimacy, it flunks.

    It helps to not be so much of a fan. That's what a young writer with a specialized interest needs to know, beyond anything else. There are very few gigs covering that isolated team. There is niche online stuff but that's low ceiling.

    If you demonstrate balanced real world appraisal and break away from zealot Dolphin obsession and all the conclusions destined to fail, countless people have opportunity to be impressed and open doors for you. With this type of approach it's tap dancing on either side of silly.

    Listen to that cbrad guy. He is an amazing resource. Don't copy his methods because that's not your style. But honor his conclusions. They will be exponentially superior to subjective yours.
     
    Adam Strange likes this.
  12. rickd13

    rickd13 Scout Team

    Joined:
    Oct 2005
    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The article makes so much sense. I have said it before and I will say it again, if you want a model of how not to develop a young talented qb, look no further than the Miami Dolphins. For more than half his career he was surrounded by garbage skill position players, horrible coaching, and an incompetent front office. For almost all of his career he has been protected by some of the worst offensive line play the NFL has to offer, and yet people believe that Tannehill has been the biggest issue with this team.

    I am not delusional to think that Tannehill is Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, but I definitely think you can win with him if you built a good team around him. I would put him in the same tier of qb as Matt Ryan.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018 at 9:19 PM
    kevphin, vcip, Ray R and 1 other person like this.
  13. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 2005
    Messages:
    10,609
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Oh I’m well trained in that area lol. It’s a microcosm of where we are in 2018. Everybody just arguing with the title but don’t actually read the content. They all want to be heard but don’t want to educate themselves on the topic.

    And the guy starting a post with “yikes” and then acting like he’s trying to help me somehow. Really quite rich.
     
  14. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 2005
    Messages:
    10,609
    Likes Received:
    161
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I’m running out of ways to prove it. The film study isn’t enough. The raw data isn’t enough. Showing his impact on his teammates isn’t enough. That’s the problem with the esoteric game.
     
  15. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

    Joined:
    Jul 2008
    Messages:
    53,491
    Likes Received:
    3,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And they say don’t pay Landry

    Smh
     
    MiamiMuss likes this.
  16. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 2007
    Messages:
    5,346
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Look coaching and then the QB is where the wins come from. Sure personal is up there if your superbowl caliber but if you are hoping for 10 win seasons like us then it takes the coach. Gsse might be that guy, RT might be that QB, and if RT is healthy next year and we don't win at least 10 games then we are treading water and its time to move on.
     
    phish likes this.
  17. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    21,887
    Likes Received:
    1,929
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Most surprising thing in this article? Dallas Thomas not on the list for being a bottom 5 OL at any point if his Dolphins tenure. So unbelieveable it almost makes the article not credible lol.

    Excellent work OP
     
    phish and Ray R like this.
  18. johngarry

    johngarry "Mysterious" Super Donator Donator

    Joined:
    Jul 2005
    Messages:
    4,713
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    63
    20yrs of not drafting a franchise defining qb is more damning.. Tannehill will never be that. Mayfield at #11, 'fire and fury'.
     
    3rd N Long and jlfin like this.
  19. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2008
    Messages:
    10,498
    Likes Received:
    225
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Don't have to read more than the title. We're a 7.5 win team with Cutler, Tannehill or Moore. Fales probably brings us closer to Browns territory. Moreover, do we win a prize for being better than the Browns?
     
    DolfanDuBbZ~ likes this.
  20. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2008
    Messages:
    10,498
    Likes Received:
    225
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Whats really disheartening is there isn't even anything to get excited about in the bullpen.
     
    DolfanDuBbZ~ likes this.
  21. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Aug 2008
    Messages:
    12,036
    Likes Received:
    780
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe some of you guys should head over to the vip section and see his breakdown of the player, not just an article detailing issues
     
  22. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2008
    Messages:
    10,498
    Likes Received:
    225
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Let me guess: its all roses.
     
  23. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Messages:
    4,629
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    63
    So, with Ryan we are???? What the Lions....yea, there are no parades going on mid feb. in Michigan lol
     
    DolfanDuBbZ~ likes this.
  24. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    10,922
    Likes Received:
    538
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nice article. I've been making this case anecdotally for years. Thanks for the research to back it up.
     
    rickd13 likes this.
  25. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Messages:
    4,817
    Likes Received:
    445
    Trophy Points:
    83
    This post says all anyone needs to know about you. You didn't take time to read the article but choose to come in the thread and give your opinion with absolutely no knowledge of the subject matter? Friggin hilarious.
     
    malok, andyahs, Liphinphan and 6 others like this.
  26. 39wildman

    39wildman A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Messages:
    1,376
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I don't see dolphins never being browns.they are middle of pact team that need find way to next level. We have been doing same thing for 10 yr. With thill17 or w some other qb our record is still same. So what that real tell me is we need upgrade qb...
     
  27. Highzenga

    Highzenga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2012
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    166
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I think the Browns are a potential dynasty in the making. 5 picks in the first 2 rounds. Dorsey, Wolf & Highsmith running things. I would love to have any of them as gm. On top of that, I love the 3 first round picks from last year as well. Laugh if you want but the browns have a bright future imo.
     
    rickd13 likes this.
  28. Buff

    Buff From a galaxy far far away.... Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Messages:
    2,309
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I think Mayfield is a massive risk. I just don't think he is a franchise qb. From what I have seen this year, he has too many brain farts.

    I think Mason Rudolph is a much better proposition. If, and I doubt he will be, but if he is there in the 2nd, he would be my pick.
     
  29. Tannchise

    Tannchise A True Fan

    Joined:
    Oct 2012
    Messages:
    3,491
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    83
    without Tanehill we won 6 games. Browns have won 1 game in 2 seasons. Bad post
     
  30. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Something nice was bound to grow out of all the manure that a few haters love to keep spreading.
     
  31. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    83
    For what it’s worth, I’m of the opinion that if we keep rebooting this franchise every 3-4 years, we WILL become the Browns.
     
  32. Tannchise

    Tannchise A True Fan

    Joined:
    Oct 2012
    Messages:
    3,491
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    83
    the last reboot was 2008
     
  33. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth The North Remembers Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 2013
    Messages:
    9,851
    Likes Received:
    1,071
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What do you quantify as a reboot? Change in coach? We have had several since 2008. Is it a change in GM? We have had several of those as well.
     
  34. Tannchise

    Tannchise A True Fan

    Joined:
    Oct 2012
    Messages:
    3,491
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I think we had gone 1-15 and removed the roster.
     
  35. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

    Joined:
    Mar 2005
    Messages:
    8,955
    Likes Received:
    267
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers makes the Phins a perennial playoff team.
    It’s a QB driven league
     
  36. Tannchise

    Tannchise A True Fan

    Joined:
    Oct 2012
    Messages:
    3,491
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Until fans here and the FO realize that, it's 7-9 every year. The reply is always "it's hard to find one." My answer, keep digging
     
  37. Ilovemyfins4eva

    Ilovemyfins4eva A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2009
    Messages:
    7,885
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    48
    with tannehill as starting qb, we have had 2 seasons in his 5 seasons as our starting qb with a worse record or the same as we had without him this year. 2012- 6-10, 2015, 5-11.

    in the other 2 seasons, 2013 and 2014, we went a mediocre 8-8, 1 which was an extremely disappointing 8-8 as we lost our final 2 games in 2013, and 2014 we finished on a high note at 8-8.

    in 2016 we were 8-5 when tannehill went down, and no one knows how that seasons would have finished with him.

    so basically with tannehill we are avg to below avg based and without him pretty much the same.

    u want to see a team that looks similar to the browns without there starting qb, look at the packers this season. start 4-1 with rodgers, he goes down, go 3-8 rest of way. that is a team missed there qb in a big way this year. the fins are mediocre at best with tannehill as they have showed us during his time with us .
     
  38. Liphinphan

    Liphinphan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 2010
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    127
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I'm sure it would be much better if it said Tannehill sucks, Gase sucks, blow it up!, Without giving facts or examples....then it would be a great post right? Because just having a negative narrative without anything backing it up everyday in numerous threads and posts is much better.. Funny part is I am sure you, like a few others, did not even bother to read it. Predictable
     
    kevphin, PhinsAAA, Vaark and 3 others like this.
  39. Tannchise

    Tannchise A True Fan

    Joined:
    Oct 2012
    Messages:
    3,491
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    83
    preach on
     
  40. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth The North Remembers Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 2013
    Messages:
    9,851
    Likes Received:
    1,071
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The only reason the team didn't completely implode this season was that of Gase...that talent level is around a 2-4 win team..
     

Share This Page