WTF Jason Cole? (Ireland related)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by roy_miami, Dec 19, 2012.

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  1. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    On WQAM he goes on a rant about how it would be stupid to fire Ireland now 'he just found the QB, I don't understand why people want to fire him now. If you wanted to fire him you should have done it last season (no ****). Let him build around that QB that he found. Look at Alex Smith, his career has been ruined because of all the churning at the head coach and gm positions'

    Really Jason Cole? You're gonna use the 49ers as an example as to why you shouldn't keep changing head coaches and GMs? Do you not realize they've become one of the best teams in the league BECAUSE they finally found competent people at those positions?
     
  2. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    I am not an Ireland guy and think they should have cleaned house at the end of the 2010 season. However, at the same time, it is not simply a crazy idea to keep him. I can understand the logic and thought process.
     
  3. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    I am on the fence whether Ireland should return or not. I am really at the point in his tenure that I could take him or leave him, however what Jason Cole said is not crazy or out of line(surprising since Cole is usually a clown). Retaining Ireland for the 2013 does make sense with how the structure of the organization was built. Pretty sure Ireland got a "clean slate" when Sparano and Parcells were kicked out the door and Cole is right that he finally got the quarterback to build around. On top of that the team has far surpassed the national expectations for this season and are still alive for the postseason going into Week 16. It would be a major upset if Ireland is not back in 2013.
     
  4. SWS84

    SWS84 A True Fan

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    Also, I might add, that a lot of folks seem to think the GM makes his decisions in a vacuum, when they don't. The coaching staff plays a huge role in who we sign as a free agent and in the draft. Ireland and Philbin seem to have a good working relationship. Lets give it some time before we churn things up again.



    Oh, and I can't believe I am agreeing with Jason Cole! I guess the World is really going to end on 12/21/12. ;)
     
  5. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Letting Ireland stay is extremely risky for very little reward imo. I seriously think some of the more respected Finheaven posters could do as good a job as Ireland. If Ireland gives us a few of his status quo offseasons he could waste what turns out to be a good QB and coaching staff. But what if he gives us a few more offseasons that look like his last one and we basically roll with the crap we've had this season, and Irelands big signings are all cornfeds? What if Tannehill turns out to be a bust and all we have to show for Ireland is 7 really good 350 pound linemen?

    This team is heading towards a black hole and Ireland has taken us to the threshold of the event horizon, two more offseasons like the last one and you can say hello to the LA Dolphins.
     
  6. 13Dolfan87

    13Dolfan87 Scout Team Donator

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    I'd be shocked if Ireland's fired. He's getting one more year.
     
  7. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    The Dolphins are better today and have a much brighter future, with or without Ireland, than they did at this point last year. I don't think think retaining Ireland for the 2013 season is the equivalent of going into a "black hole" or towards an "event horizon". Or any other terms like "apocalypse", "doomsday", etc. Or that retaining Ireland will equal the team moving to Los Angeles. All of that seems very drastic to assume because one man will retain his job in the Dolphins front office.

    I don't really care if Ireland is fired or retained at this point, but I certainly understand the teams likely decision to keep him. Especially now that the team does have its quarteback in place, and surprise surprise, the team is still in the playoff race late in December. As much as we might hate the idea or not want to acknowledge it, but 2013 will be Ireland's 3rd true offseason in 100% control and 2nd building a team in the mold of what Joe Philbin wants. Sure he technically will be the GM for the 6th straight year but really only recently was he put in a situation to receive 100% of the blame and praise.

    With that said, 2013 will be a make it or break it year for Jeff Ireland. It most definitely will be the playoffs in 2013 or hitting the road, assuming the team doesn't qualify for the 2012 postseason which they are still alive for. 10 total draft picks(5 in the first three rounds), $40+ million in cap space makes for a great opportunity for Ireland to help fast track to where they want this team to be. The fact that Ireland's contract expires after the 2013 season is another HUGE reason why it will be a make it or break it year for him.
     
  8. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    The team has been heading towards a black hole for long before Ireland got here. Its been a boring ground and pound rely on defense team for 15 years. We've drafted 1 probowl WR in 30 years. We haven't drafted a probowl skill player on defense in 15 years. Ross isn't going to keep buying up empty seats forever so the question is will the fans come to the game in order to see it or will they just forget about the Dolphins altogether if they aren't on TV.

    If its true that Ireland has one more season to make the playoffs then he's a lame duck GM. Having a lame duck in a position of authority is never good. Lame ducks will do whats good for them in the short term, not whats good for the team over the long term. Players tend to quit under lame ducks, plus Ireland won't be allowed to negotiate contracts. Giving him one more year to do what he hasn't been able to do in 5 makes no sense.

    I agree that the team appears to be heading in the right direction but sometimes appearances can be deceiving. See Sanchez and Rex Ryan.
     
  9. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    it was a good intervuew I agree with him and so does Ross.
     
  10. FinHopeful

    FinHopeful Starter

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    Actually, I agree 100% with Jason Cole. It would be extremely foolish to fire him now. Let's see what the partnership of Philbin and Ireland can do.
     
  11. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    I'm not saying its likely that the team could move but lets say the worst case scenario unfolds

    -Ireland signs Long to a 5 year $100 million contract. Long plays like garbage the rest of his career
    -Ireland does nothing to invigorate the fans by signing a big name free agent
    -We draft a 2 guards and a DT with our first 3 picks
    -Doesn't bring back our only playmaker and fan favorite Reggie Bush
    -All of the playmakers drafted this year and last year are busts
    -doesn't resign Hartline or Fasano
    -Running Backs are all terrible. Wide receivers are all terrible. tight ends are all terrible. Corner backs are all terrible
    -Pouncy and Soliai suffer season ending injuries week 1
    -Tannehill regresses to Blaine Gabbert levels
    -Philbin loses the locker room
    -Ross stops buying the 30,000 tickets it takes to avoid blackouts
    -Jacksonville drafts Jonny Football and becomes the greatest dynasty football has ever seen

    The Dolphins are left without a single good player except for Wake and the salary cap is tied up for years. They aren't getting shown on TV locally anymore and the fans still refuse to show up.
     
  12. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

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    wow, that's A LOT to go wrong, lol. imo, this past draft was Jeff Ireland's best and it was because of Philbin's influence. Whether Joe called for certain players or just gave Ireland what type of player to look for, they seem to work well together and I would like to see at least one more year.
     
  13. AFCMiamiEast

    AFCMiamiEast A True Fan

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    You're absolutely clueless about moving the team. I hope you're being hypothetical and not serious.
     
  14. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    I would bet dollars to donuts that some LA Rams fan said that exact same thing to a clueless idiot once upon a time...

    In the history of the league, teams moving from one city to another isn't that uncommon.
     
  15. AFCMiamiEast

    AFCMiamiEast A True Fan

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    Are the two franchises even comparable? Miami is linked to a prideful and unprecedented history, this team is going nowhere. It's not a coincidence that you are from out of town, it seems as if they're the only people spewing this nonsense.
     
  16. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    One question,"has the team improved since Ireland has been GM?" I pretty sure the answer is a unanimous No! Enuff said. Hit the road, Jack.
     
  17. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    1) Do you think Ross is going to keep buying empty seats forever to avoid blackouts?
    2) What are the possible repercussions when he stops?
     
  18. mnphinfan

    mnphinfan Lifelong Fin Fan

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    If Ireland thought he was a lame duck there is no way he would have traded Marshal and Vontae without getting something immediately in return. Also look at the FA's he signed this year. All of them except Marshall were for 1 year contracts that wouldn't affect the cap long term. Those actions just speak to me as him knowing he is going to be the GM to oversee the franchise for the next 3 years. Sure Ross, Ireland, and Philben all stated in the offseason that they expected to make the playoff but that was just lip service. This was a take out the trash/rebuilding year. People just don't want to acknowledge this. Ireland was setting himself and Philbin up for the exact circumstance they have next offseason. Extra draft picks in the top 3 rounds and plenty of cash to spend, the 2 key requirements needed to strengthen a roster that already has talent.
     
  19. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    what's wrong with thinking that if we were going to clean house we should've done it last offseason? It ABSOLUTELY would've made sense to bring in a NEW GM and HC at the same time. Now? Meh.
     
  20. Exuro

    Exuro Well-Known Member

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    So you're okay with the Dolphins not being competitive until 2018? Because that's the direct comparison to the 49ers. Alex Smith was drafted in 2005, and that team only become a force when they hired Harbaugh 6 years later.

    Cole is absolutely correct in his assessment, Ireland should have been fired last year. That ship has sailed and turning back now does more harm than good at this point. I don't want to see Tannehill turn out like Alex Smith or Sam Bradford, having to learn a new offense very year.
     
  21. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Actually short moves mean spending big money on free agents which we did not do this year because it was a rebuilding year where it expected that we were going to loose more games than we won while the new head coach installed his system. Jimmy Johnson did the same thing drafted a bunch of rookies his first year bringing in free agents to fill in the holes on the team later. We have talent on this team probably as much as there has been for a new coach to work with in the past 20 plus years. Could it be better sure. Just to put all the blame by so many fans is childish it is just the easy way out. This years draft was much different than past drafts in the types and numbers of players chosen. Most of the real draft niks really had few problems with his picks this year except to nik pick some of the later round picks. I looked at some the players they would have chosen too in those rounds and not all of those guys have not worked out either plus when you consider we have 3 in drafted college free agents contributing as solid backups or starters this years draft was the best in quite a few years. Marshall the CB was really the only miss along with Gerard and Marshall did not have a injury history and Gerard was a decent backup plan if he still had his form which he did from camp reports just he is old and brittle
     
  22. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    WRONG crawl back under that rock
     
  23. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Finally some logical thinking
     
  24. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    I can't say if the Dolphins and Rams are comparable. I do know that the Cleveland Rams had a great championship tradition before they moved.
     
  25. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    I just found it funny that he said San Fran is an example of how not to do it because all the churning ruined Alex smith's career. I think its the contrary, Harbaugh and the new GM saved Smith's career and made him look better than he really is. Because of that he's going to get a nice contract in the off-season.
     
  26. SabanHater

    SabanHater ***** in the House!

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    I wouldn't say "He found his QB". Maybe Sherman and Philbin did.
     
  27. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    well, there are reports that ireland liked tannehill before philbin signed up as HC. So if you want to say, Philbin and sherman found the QB, I hope in your next breath you say that philbin traded away Vontae and marshall too.
     
  28. Rocket2981

    Rocket2981 Rookie Finheaven VIP

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    What is the danger in my opinion in firing Ireland is that automatically Philbin becomes a lame-duck coach because the new guy will not be the one that hired Philbin. At the 1st occasion he will fire Philbin then we will start AGAIN with a new coaching staff and a new offensive and defensive schemes. AGAIN we'll have to fix the roster because our players will not fit in the new system.

    I think Philbin's staff deserves a 2-3 years window to prove that they can build a winner and Ireland should be a part of it. He drafted well this year and now he have extra picks and it's clear to me that this draft will be all to fix key positions of need especially on offense...
     
  29. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Ireland doesnt deserve three more years , at best one more. A new GM has no real affect because Ross makes the decision on the coach
     
  30. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    ok roy, whats your draft look like? since your so knowledgable about drafts.
     
  31. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    What in the last five years has led anyone to believe that he should be trusted with five picks in the top three rounds and $50 million in cap space? If he has a typical Ireland offseason it could set this team back another ten years.
     
  32. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Ever notice ireland Haters come out the same time, all in unison, and back each other up on every thread, start another one, and spout the same repetitive crap day in day out and then someone comes along and says something actually logical with some thought behind it and not some one line hate-filled nonsense, and it never gets retracted with any real proof of anything?

    yeah they bring up Marshall and Davis but they get shouted out on those moves and like they have nothing else to say.

    If I were an Ireland hater, I would be bringin up Naanee all day long, but not smart enough for that I guess. That is his biggest blemish to date and I would still say Philbin doesnt have a prob with it and will simply move on with his plan.

    ---------- Post added at 11:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------

    So you were against Tannehill and Martin picks?
     
  33. PJack

    PJack A True Fan

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    Problem to me is Ireland's weakness at GM is finding playmakers. This off season and the Dolphins success over the next 5-7 years is heavily dependant on taking advantage of the huge opportunities (5 early picks and 40-50mm cap space) that we have to fill these holes. Nothing he has done in 5 years has lead me to beleive he is capable of doing this well.

    I'm just not sure I have another 5-7 years of sanity left if he blows it. If I had a vote, he would not be the man for this job.
     
  34. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    say what you want about his drafting but recently I am pleased. Pouncey, Tannehill, Martin and Clay have been really nice additions recently. I think Ireland is getting better at drafting - the last two years I have no complaints about. We now have a core to this team; we lack skill players im willing to give him one more draft.

    He is out of contract next season, he gets a new deal if this goes well and if he messes up... then the anti Ireland guys get rid of him.
     
  35. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    First of all, two picks don't negate the entirity of his time here. Secondly, I was saying Tannehill was a first round pick as early as last November. Ireland also had no choice but to draft him. Lastly, had previous draft picks and free agents worked out, we could have taken a playmaker instead of Martin. If Martin can be used as a +1 in Ireland's favor, Marc Colombo is a -5.
     
  36. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    He
    Don't forget to give him a A plus for Wake plus curves for the 3 rookie college free agents he picked up this year. Well most of e draft nicks had RT in the first round just not that high in the first round so you were not alone. It takes about 3 years to see picks develop and this year with Tony and Bill gone we have seen a whole different type of picks from Ireland so that shows me he can and has changed. Plus yes he probably deserves to spend that cap space and make those draft picks year since he accumulated that with his for sight. What he should not be able to do next year is trade future picks current picks in 2013 so the next GM if there is one can earn his own way without riding on Ireland's efforts and guys like you giving the other guy the credit
     
  37. Cleetus

    Cleetus Well-Known Member

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    Just so I Know, all of you are saying that if Ireland stinks it up again next year THEN you would advocate firing him?
     
  38. cuban_refugee

    cuban_refugee Football On My Mind 24 Hrs Per Day

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    This post sucks
     
  39. silverfin

    silverfin FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    You mean like drafting Ryan Tannehill? You mean like trading away Brandon Marshall and Vontae Davis? You mean like not giving away future draft picks for Dwayne Bowe?
     
  40. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    As fans we often see only the negatives of those in leadership roles. We expect certain things and don't realize how hard it is to get those things accomplished without over paying for them. Too often we fold to the knee jerk actions that say pay whatever we have to pay to get a player that MIGHT help a position of need, even if it damages our future.

    Fans often think about a GM only as a person who sits behind a desk and judges talent. When in truth it is more the logistics and framework of decisions made that make a good GM. It is not just about bringing a player in but understanding how they fit in with the direction of the team/lockerroom, and even the cap for the next few years that matter. I read it once shortly after they implimented the salary cap that a GM would now be judged as much by the players they DIDN'T bring in as the ones they did. And you have to say he has been very good at staying away from players, that alot around here wanted, that turned out to be bust.

    Another important role of a GM is to contol the team's cap. This works hand in hand with not bringing in too many big name FAs that are signed to longterm contracts. But again he was unwilling to sign offseason players, this past year, that might not work out when he understood that his young QB needed a year to mature. We all knew that this was not going to be a superbowl year, but next year we were going to have room to make some moves that could give us a shot at being contenders. Now going into the offseason we have probably the best cap/draft outlook of any team in the league. To be honest that kinda scares me because I haven't loved either his drafts or his FA decisions. But bottom line is he suffered through being fugal to get to this positions, even at the cost of taking a lot of heat. So IMHO he deserves a chance at spending the equity he has established.

    One more quality that has to be respected is his negotiation skills. He NEVER gets taken. He gets the best of every deal. He is nobodys bit*h. I absolutely LOVED the way he handled the RT contract. That was a perfect example of him sticking to his guns to insure his owner/team got the best possible deal for the future(a future that might not even include himself), yet at the same time being flexible enough to allow the player not miss too much time, while being willing to meet them half way. That may not seem like a big deal but it isn't as easy as it seems when every moron with a newspaper is out saying you are being too tough, or hurting the team or all the other knee jerk reactions. The Vontae deal was another. We got to see behind what made the decision. He was more than willing to keep the player until the offer got WAAAY beyond the players worth. And even more important was that he UNDERSTOOD the players worth. NOT what we paid for him but what he was worth NOW. He got WAY more than he was worth.

    Having said all that I will say that I am on the fence with Ireland. There would not be a word said by me if he were removed, AND someone BETTER came on board. But I personally think that is an extreme long shot. Even if there were a better judge of talent, (which wouldn't be THAT hard to find) there are so many other things that Jeff does VERY well that another GM could be worse. I think we are better off standing pat one more year. If Jeff blows chunks with the equity he has created it will be easy to send him off down the road after next year. Even though I will be holding my breath during the draft, and will break something if we don't get a WR with one of our first 3 picks, I think he should be kept on at least one more year.

    Less than 1 in 4 NFL GMs have the support of their fan base. People only see the negative. And no matter WHO they bring in, most of the fan base will be against him in less than two years. So while Jeff has not been perfect (by a longshot) he is the best GM we have had in the last 20 years IMO. He has done a lot right.

    Like I said I won't jump off a bridge if he is canned at the end of the year (though I really don't see it happening), I WILL be the first to be as critical of every decision the NEW GM makes as some on here are towards Jeff.
     
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