WVDolphan's Get Real - Today's topic "QB, FA, and the draft"

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by WVDolphan, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    Its the time of year when the phins are once again faced with the decision of what to do at the QB position. Its an annual tradition at this point. Most of you who have been following FH for a while now will be aware of the fact that when this topic is due to be discussed, WVDolphan is always right, and most everyone else is wrong. :lol: However this season is a little different. It seems that the correct move to make for the phins is so obvious that most everyone has it right. Nevertheless, there seems to be a few bird brains flying around who are a bit lost, so a Get Real thread is in order.

    After examining all of the options available to the phins at QB, there is but one smart move to make. That is of course to IMMEDIATELY sign Peyton Manning upon his release tomorrow. Lets discuss the reasons why.......

    1) He's Peyton ****ing MANNING! You have watched football the last dozen or so years right? That is all. :thanks:

    Now lets look at some of the counter arguments to that and talk about why they either make zero sense or simply dont matter.......

    1) He's coming off a serious injury and some surgeries......

    Fair point. However, have I mentioned he's Peyton ****ing Manning? Were not talking about some run of the mill scrub like Matt Flynn here. Peyton Manning is an all time great. The guy can play. Even if he's 90% of what he was 3 years ago, he is still the QB we have needed for a while now. Guys this good just arent available through FA but once every 5-10 years. It takes a special circumstance for this to happen.

    The only question about this injury is will the nerve regenerate so that he can have full function of his arm. From what I understand, its likely that it will. Again, even if it dosent, so long as it regenerates enough that he can throw with close to the same velocity and have full feeling in his arm and hands, it should be fine.

    And besides, even if the nerve dosent heal, its worth the shot at signing the guy. I mean really, if we sign him and he cant be effective, what did we lose? A chance to pick up some bum at QB and go 7-9 again? Get real. Its time to ante up and get after it. Brett Favre played with nerve damage with the Jests and he blew down the stretch. They still had a decent season and were like 7-2 and in the mix till his arm gave out. And oh btw, a year after his nerve problem he played great in Minnesota and lead them to the NFC title game. Manning has had a full year off and should be fine for next season.

    2) He's one big hit away from his career being over.....

    This is probably the most stupid of all of the arguments. My response..... WHO ISNT? Its football. Mannings particular injury leaves him at no greater risk than any other QB in the league. His neck is fused. Its gold. And again, even if we sign him and he takes a huge hit and never plays again, its STILL WORTH taking the chance and signing him. Youre not going to find better options than Peyton Manning at QB through FA. The only better options you get are when you have the #1 overall pick and a solid QB is there for the taking. When that happens, try not to draft a LT OK.

    3) He isnt a long term solution.......

    Another stupid argument. Who is a long term solution? You mean like when you have the #1 overall pick? Well guess what...... we used that on a LT. Cant have that one back. The only long term solution this year is Andrew Luck and he is the only reason Manning will be available. We cant get Luck because we were too stupid to lose enough games. Sign Manning and WIN as many games as you can right now. If he plays well then you have a QB for a few years that gives you a chance. Then you dont have to worry about a QB again till you have to worry about a QB again. For this franchise that has been every year. Sign Manning and that may not happen for a few years for a change. Its as if the idea of contending frightens some fans around here.

    Now lets examine the other "options" if you want to call them that......

    1) Matt Flynn - He blows. Next.

    This is what frightened the hell out of me about getting Philbin in the first place. Im tired of hearing about Philbin's offense. Last time I checked he was running Mike McCarthy's offense, not Joe Phibins. How in the hell is it his offense? Secondly, it wasnt Flynn. It was Aaron Rodgers. Green Bay wins with Rodgers running McCarthy's offense, not Flynn running Philbins.

    2) RGIII - If you havent read Aswi's posts on this scrub, do yourself a favor. I wouldnt draft RGIII in the 7th round, much less trade up to get him. Watch him fall to whoever is foolish enough to draft him. I dont see anyone trading up to get him. Rams just draft your LT or Blackmon and be quiet.

    After realizing that none of the other QBs available in FA are even as good as Matt Moore, the plan should be to sign Manning. If Manning dosent sign with us, then just roll with Moore and see what happens next season. There will be a handful of good QBs in the draft next year and maybe we can make a move for one then.

    Lets also realize that while the desire to get Manning may be there, there is the possibility he chooses to go elsewhere on his own. I think a lot of people are failing to realize just how many teams will be smart enough to try and sign Manning. For those of you who think its limited to the teams who are being typically thrown out there...... GET REAL. Dont discount a team that hasnt even been discussed. A team like Philly for instance, would be really wise to upgrade their QB play and get Manning. I dont think its out of the question he would like to go there and throw it to D. Jackson. I see no reason why Dallas should get in the mix either. Tony who? Since when should those teams worry about who their starter is now? Their starters have done NOTHING for them. Peyton Manning is a huge upgrade to almost any team in the league. And why should a team like Dallas or Philly who has very mediocre to above average starters(Vick blows btw and stays injured) pass on Manning? They shouldnt. I dont believe for one second that their ownerships and GMs arent going to try and get in the mix for Manning even if they dont make it public. Its the god damned SHERIFF for christ sakes. Its not like Joe Flacco just got cut. Were talking about Peyton Manning.

    Lets now discuss the draft.....

    We have covered that RGIII blows, but its worth mentioning other QBs as many people believe even if the phins sign Manning that we should draft a QB. I say not necessarially. A lot of people like Tannehill and I think he could be ok. I do worry that he comes from the Big 12 to be honest, but my main problem is I just dont want to spend a 1st round pick on a QB unless he starts right away. I mean, if the guy is that good that you draft him in round 1, he is good enough to start IMHO and if you sign Manning, you dont need a starting QB. If you want to draft a project, fine. I would have no problem in round 4 or later taking a QB if we sign Manning. Thing is, as we all know, good QBs come in the first round, typically near the top. Bums are drafted in round 2 and beyond. Feel free to throw in the dozen or so exceptions to that rule that have existed in the 2 million years of football.

    But, if you want to mention a few of those guys, I like Cousins a little bit and would take him. Prefereable not with a 2nd round pick though. Also, that kid from Arizona St. may have potential if you want to spend a later pick on him. Lastly, Kellen Moore is a winner and although they say he lacks the arm strength, I wouldnt count him out. Noodle arm lacked arm strength and yet all he did was win in the NFL.

    So what would I do with our first round pick. Well if we sign Manning, Ive said this might not be a horrible year to go cornfed. I just dont really care for the idea of going OL in the top 10. Not my style. But, if we had to the kid from Stanford could be a good RT for us.

    My preference would be trading down and stockpiling picks. A lot of people say that, problem is you cant just trade down because you want to. You have to have a trading parter. However the only way we may get that is if a player is there who I myself would take. Im saying right now if Richardson is there Id take him. RB is another position I hate going first round with, but this kid is a beast like no other. Teams like Cinci might be interested if he falls to 8, but I would take him myself. Richardson is a game changer.

    Blackmon is also a guy I may take if he were to fall to 8. I dont see it happening, but if he did, he is just too good to pass up. I would definately take him if we are stuck with Matt Moore, but if we get Manning I would be inclined to deal the pick. Manning dosent need WRs. He makes them. Ever heard of Austin Collie? Plenty of people did before Manning was injured. Guy caught TDs left and right. Manning would make Hartline into a stud. Just add Reggie Wayne and we are set at WR with Manning at QB.

    So that would be my draft plan along with looking for pass rushers and perhaps a safety. Of course Im always looking for pass rush, secondary, and offensive game changers. Thats the keys to the game in todays NFL. Get some of those things and dont be afraid to trade down and stock picks in next seasons draft in order to give us more ammo for when there is a good QB available that we could actually get. Luck is the only one worth getting this year aside from Manning and Luck just isnt happening.
     
    bobw999 likes this.
  2. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

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    missed these. :)
     
  3. OyeDale305

    OyeDale305 MIA#1

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    Finally! lol
     
  4. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    And I miss the "thanks" button :lol:
     
  5. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

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    Haha, dont we all.

    I must say i'm pretty on board with the train of thought. The "not taking RG3 in the 7th round" was a nice little touch of bravado lol, i don't think he's anywhere close to Luck, but I do believe he is clearly the 2nd best quarterback prospect in this draft.
    And much like i thought last year, Tannehill is going to be thrust up early in first where he doesn't belong. Just like Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder were.
    They all might turn out to be decent quarterbacks besides Gabbert, but they were taken way to high. Tannehill was a Wide Receiver the other day for gods sake. I hear the argument of "well that means he has so much more untapped potential"... sure i'll bite.... except im not putting my job on the line to make him my first round quarterback and future... thats what mid round project selections are for.

    I think if we grab Peyton, and we absolutely should... that 8th pick either gets traded for a nice sum.. or you go BPA on defense. Whether thats a DT, DE or OLB... its a need that must be addressed.. and as this draft unfolds, we may be able to take the best defensive player in the entire draft if we so choose.

    but nice writeup WV.
     
  6. dolfan_101

    dolfan_101 A True Fan

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    IMHO we need to hit homers on our first two picks in conjunction with signing Manning and Wayne. If we could grab Fleener for sure and either DeCastro, Perry, or Luke K in the first we will look like a solid team.
     
  7. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin Burn the Jolly Roger Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    my thanks button disappeared days ago, but i agree with your post WV. i would like to add to the issue of manning being 1 hit away. the way the nfl has changed the way defense is played, qbs might as well be playing flag football out there or put on their red practice jerseys. with a healthy jake i cant see manning taking too many hits. i know some will say it only takes 1, but what other qb isnt at that risk.

    also with the nfl now being a pass oriented game, we need a gunslinger like peyton to rise to the top of the afc east. if we get flynn or rg3 , we should expect a couple more years of mediocrity , those guys wont be enough to get us past the current afc leaders. we must go all in on peyton, NOW!
     
  8. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Pretty much what Im thinking... And what you've been up to? You dont post here very often anymore it seems...? And yeah, WTH happened to the thanks button?
     
  9. Lilseb93

    Lilseb93 This Is My House

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    We're already a solid team. That would make us a great team if Manning is healthy.
     
  10. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    Gabbert is absolutely horrible. Worst starter in the league from last season. Jacksonville should be trying to get a QB. Ponder and Locker still have potential IMHO.

    And I feel like there should be several really good defensive players still there at 8. I trade down if I can. There are plenty of good players to be had, its all about choosing the right player when its your turn to select. The more selections you have the better off you will be.
     
  11. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    It was rather short compared to the normal post, lol!
     
  12. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    Manning puts us over the top IMHO. The passing game would be great with what we have now. I would add Wayne just for the familiarity. I also would add Richardson if he is somehow there at 8. If he isnt, I think it would be wise to sign a vet RB that we know we can trust with the blocking. Once we have that, I dont see how this offense dosent produce.

    With the defense we have now and that offense, we compete every week. We are a legit contender. FINALLY. None of this garbage where are season is over in Oct and Nov like it has been lately. Manning guarentees us 9-10 wins. That has been good enough to get in lately. If we add a pass rusher to go with Wake and someone else who could cover, this team could really be special once things gel.

    Just getting into the playoffs would be exciting knowing we have an elite QB and the ability to drop a 40 burger on anyones defense on any given day. Thats all you need for a realistic SB dream.
     
  13. JBinSD

    JBinSD Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    What ever did happen to the thanks button?

    You are, by the way, CRAZY to say that you wouldn't draft RGIII in the 7th. I agree about Manning. But lumping RGIII into the "scrub" crowd is negligent.

    The kid has a GREAT head on his shoulders, is amazingly accurate, and is a tremendous athlete. He is worth selling the farm for, but not if you can sign Peyton Manning.
     
  14. Lilseb93

    Lilseb93 This Is My House

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    I would thank you, but I don't know where the button went. :idk::lol:
     
  15. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Ok Ill bite what about RG3 blows . He had the second highest qb rating in country, was 4th in passing tds, number one in yards per attempt.
    So the guy can play qb, He had 37 tds against 6 interceptions so he definately is not a turnover machine and he completed 72.4 percent of his passes,and lets not mention while doing this he also gained 699 yards rushing. Whether you like him or not he is unlike any player that has ever played the qb position in college, he was like Michael Vick crossed with Drew Brees in college. Baylor had no been to a Bowl games since 1994 and griffin led them to two straight, Baylor had not been ranked since 1986 and yes he led them to a top 15 ranking. This guy is a winner , great attitude, smart guy and skills galore. Mind you he did all this with not the most talented Baylor team who talentwise is not among the better big 12 teams. This guy has decent size at 6-2 can make all of the throws and is a tremendous leader on the field. if not for the very rare talent of Luck he would be the surefire first pick in this draft and would go 1st in most drafts.

    If you want to make a point you dont think the amount to give up in trade is worth it I might buy that but to make a statement that RG3 blows is beyond silly.
     
  16. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    Since I mentioned Joe Flacco, dont discount Baltimore in the Manning mix. Did Flacco get a new deal or is he going into the last season of his contract? If he is, why wouldnt they go after Manning? Flacco already takes a ton of criticism and even if you think its unfair, there is no way that Manning isnt an upgrade to Flacco. If Baltimore could sign Manning they could easily let Flacco walk after next season. Manning could definately take that Ravens team to a title and Im sure Ray Lewis wouldnt object seeing as this could be his last season.

    Im telling you there are quite a few teams that people arent even mentioning that will be interested. There are really only a handful of teams who have QBs that are even close to Manning in ability and also are locked up and or still young. Unless a team has a guy like that who they plan on being their starter for at least the next 5-6 seasons, why the hell wouldnt they go after Manning?

    Pats, Giants, Steelers, Colts, Chargers, Saints, Panthers, Falcons, Packers, and Lions are the only teams I would totally count out of it. Im sure the Rams wont be in the mix but, If they were smart they would be. There isnt a team in this league that a healthy Manning couldnt make a contender. Well except maybe the Bills :lol: :sidelol:
     
  17. dolfan_101

    dolfan_101 A True Fan

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    We seriously need to upgrade the TE position if we nab Manning. Fleener, Marshall, Wayne, Bush are some legit weapons and would put Manning in quite a poisition to do something special on O. Right now we NEED to find another pass rusher to be a legit contender.
     
  18. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    At least your typical Natty Light whining was put to a minimum.
     
  19. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin Burn the Jolly Roger Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    well might as well thrown in dallas, i can see jerry opening up a manning amusement park at the texas/louisiana border.
     
  20. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Well you have to admit in retrospect we would have been better off taking Ryan. Its nothing about Ryan being a better player but just that we have struggled way to hard to find a long term solution at qb and still after this year we could be quite a ways from finding that player. Manning would be a great signing but its a short term rental that probably takes us farther from getting a top qb longterm.
     
  21. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin Burn the Jolly Roger Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    there is too many players on our team,in the prime of their careers right now to be thinking 3-5 years down the line. i think we need take advantage of peyton and enjoy the ride for the next 2-4 years. maybe we can draft a qb in the next 1-2 years and let peyton show him the ropes. personally im sick of grooming and peyton has a prescription for that.
     
  22. cljh19

    cljh19 Starter

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    Add Manning....Marshall, Bush, Bess, Hartline, Fasano, Clay, Gates all get better.
     
  23. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Im all for spending right now money on Peyton front load his contract so it comes off as he plays and draft a guy now hopefully tanneyhill to groom. As for being sick of grooming we have kept over and over taking bargain bin qb's as our future qbs and have avoided taking the top tier year in and year out so its hard to say your sick of grooming when we really havent had a top prospect in here.
     
  24. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Gates needs to get himself better , its not Moore;s fault he was invisible and Fasano is nothing special no matter who the qb is, manning has not made average te's into studs.
     
  25. Bumpus

    Bumpus Are you gonna drink that? Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    :lol: Where ya been, slacker?
     
  26. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Im still waiting to hear why you say RG3 blows
     
  27. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin Burn the Jolly Roger Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    true, we havent had a top tier guy but from fiedler to henne ,every coach we have had thinks he can polish up that wooden nickel and make it a silver dollar. if we go rg3 fine, just dont see ireland giving up the picks w/ a new coaching staff, but be prepared for a couple more years of sucking. flynn is another wooden nickel.
     
  28. Adam First

    Adam First Don't Hate Miami Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I don't need to read the rest. It's Peyton ****ing Manning. We have to get him, or at least try our hardest to get him.
     
  29. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    He did say to read Awsi Dooger's post on him for reasons.
     
  30. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    I dont really want flynn esp at the price it will cost but i wouldnt discount that he may turn out good. I think after a while Ireland may figure out the qb is the most important player on the team
     
  31. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    This.............

    :thanks:
     
  32. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    so because no big12 qb's have suceeded this means rg3 wont, thats even more silly
    i dont see one valid point that makes rg3 blow not one. tools wise griffin is so much better than cam although cam has perfect size
     
  33. Phins117

    Phins117 A True Fan

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    Its peyton ****ing manning.
     
  34. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    I mentioned them in the initial post of this thread. I see them as a very real possibility. Jerry Jones has already taken shots at Romo when he mentioned that the difference between his team and the Giants was Eli Manning. He is correct btw.

    So what makes all these media guys think that Peyton isnt on Jones' radar? Im sure he feels that a healthy Peyton could put his team over the top. I doubt anyone wants to argue that Romo is the better QB.

    If I were Dallas, I wouldnt have any problems telling Romo to sit or take a hike. Hell, its not like Romo is the youngest starter in the league himself. Id take 3 years of Peyton over 6 with Romo anyday. Besides, I think Romo has clearly shown at this point that Dallas is going nowhere near a SB title with him running the offense. Romo is above average. Peyton is an all time great. End of story.
     
  35. CedarPhin

    CedarPhin Finheaven Hall of Shame Hammered

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    I say you've got to go for Manning.
     
  36. JEDIJ007

    JEDIJ007 It's a trap! Finheaven VIP

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    Good write up. About ****ing TIME!!!!
    Get Manning!
     
  37. AZStryker

    AZStryker Pro Bowler

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    Health aside, you forgot the biggest if of them all WV....if Manning even wants to play here in the first place. We can back up the brinks truck to the podium tomorrow but he may very well not want to come to Miami. You act like that's not even a possibility.
     
  38. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    No. Im pretty sure I mention that as a very real possibility. Thats why I also mention the slew of other teams that no one in the media seems to be mentioning.
     
  39. Ilovemyfins4eva

    Ilovemyfins4eva A True Fan Donator

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    if i can thank this post a thousand times i would.

    you basically took the words right out of my mouth. although, i dont think rg3 blows. i deff wouldnt trade up what it would cost to get him, nor do i think hes guaranteed to be a star, but i wouldnt say he blows like you wouldnt draft in 7th round, but i know your exadirating to make a point their so i understand.

    i was really waiting for this get real thread. their are people on this site that actually think flynn is going to be a good qb, and actually think he is an upgrade to moore without a doubt. dont get me wrong, no one is saying moore is the answer, and the people who want an upgrade thats totally understandable, but when they think matt flynn is that ****ing upgrade, thats when its taken to another level. he blows.

    as for manning, the main topic of this thread, even if we got only 2-3 years of vintage manning, that can deff mean at least 1 superbowl, and who knows, maybe 2. i maybe getting a bit ahead of myself, but thats how ****ing good he is assuming he is healthy, which by all indications, he seems to be improving every day. also with manning, we can also get a 2 for 1 with wayne prob following him to south beach. imagine marshall wayne as a 1-2, bess would be a solid 3, hartline at 4, or vice versa, with bush coming out of the backfield. scary.

    the miami dolphins become instant contenders if we are able to sign manning, something we have not been able to say in a long long time. manning is by far and its not even close the best qb out their even if hes only 85 percent. no brainer. get him fins.

    please make these get real threads more often, they are great.
     
  40. AZStryker

    AZStryker Pro Bowler

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    Yep, you did mention it. I must have missed that. My apologies.
     

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