Which new player will have the biggest impact on the team this coming season? | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Which new player will have the biggest impact on the team this coming season?

Fineas said:
It doesn't though. In zone coverage, which defenses play 85-90% of the time against the Dolphins, defenders cover territory and don't change that terrioroty based on the numbers on the WRs' jerseys or who got more targets to that point. Making a lesser receiver the target more often doesn't free up anything for anyone, in zone coverage or otherwise. LBs won't play closer -- they will play the territory that they are supposed to play based on the zone coverage call. When the TE enters the defender's zone the defender will cover him regardless of the name or number on his jersey and regardless of whether he has been targeted previously. The same is true when Hill or Waddle enter the zone.

Every defense covers every receiver, unless there is a coverage mistake. No DC designs coverages to leave any NFL WR, TE or RB uncovered.
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Going to disagree here.

If you are trying to tell me defenses don't know where TH is and gameplan accordingly by shading safety help, adjusting underneath brackets, etc, I think that is false.
 
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Not true I don’t see that in Madden
 
zullo1 said:
I won't belabor the point, but when 1 and 2 are covered there must be another viable option. Jonnu caught 50 last year with over 11 yds/catch. He should be able to better that w/the Fins. If you only throw to Hill and Waddle it becomes quite predictable and good teams will adjust as we saw in playoffs.
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Sure, when 1 and 2 are covered Smith is among the options. There were other viable options last year too -- the Other Receivers collectively matched the per target efficiency and success rate of guys like Diggs, Adams and Chase.

Again, the playoff game is just such a poor example. It was one game against a great defense (that also shut down the Bills, Ravens and Niners) and it was in some of the worst playing conditions in NFL history. Tua's on-target rate was almost 10 percentage points lower than his season average and the Dolphins' receivers' on-target catch rate was 20 percentage points lower than the season average. Most of that was probably due to the weather/cold, but it strongly suggests that the problem wasn't the WRs being coverages but rather that the passes to them were frequently off-target and when they were on-target, the receivers weren't catching them.
 
Mach2 said:
Going to disagree here.

If you are trying to tell me defenses don't know where TH is and gameplay accordingly by shading safety help, adjusting underneath brackets, etc, I think that is false.
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Of course they know where he is. Everyone does. He isn't invisible. But the coverage schemes are largely set and, especially with all of the motion Hill is used on, there really isn't an opportunity for defenses to make all those adjustments you are suggesting. Are you suggesting that in the few second between the time the dolphins line up and snap the ball (even if TH is not in motion) that defenses are regularly changing their defensive coverages on the fly? There is no indication of that. It's implausible because they have very little opportunity to do that even if they wanted to and if they were doing it we would see a lot of pre-snap movement by defenders (other than following a motion man in man coverage). We don't see that. And what adjustment do you think they are making based on where Tyreek lines up? Just because he is on the right boundary or left slot tells them nothing about where his route is going? Are they assuming he is going deep and thereby surrendering the shallow part of each zone? Are they assuming he is going to the shallow part of the zone and surrendering the deep part? Are they assuming right or left? What exactly do you think Tyreek's alignment is telling the defense?
 
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Fineas said:
Of course they know where he is. everyone does. He isn't invisible. But the coverage schemes are largely set and, especially with all of the motion Hill is used on, there really isn't an opportunity for defenses to make all those adjustments you are suggesting. Are you suggesting that in the few second between the time the dolphins line up and snap the ball (even if TH is not in motion) that defenses are regularly changing their defensive coverages on the fly? There is no indication of that. It's implausible because they have very little opportunity to do that even if they wanted to and if they were doing it we would see a lot of pre-snap movement by defenders (other than following a motion man in man coverage). We don't see that. And what adjustment do you think they are making based on where Tyreek lines up? Just because he is on the right boundary or left slot tells them nothing about where his route is going? Are they assuming he is going deep and thereby surrendering the shallow part of each zone? Are they assuming he is going to the shallow part of the zone and surrendering the deep part? Are they assuming right or left? What exactly do you think Tyreek's alignment is telling the defense?
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I'm not saying that at all, but that post from you is quite different than the one to which I was responding.

Re read what you said originally. Do you not agree that you have said two different things?
 
Mach2 said:
I'm not saying that at all, but that post from you is quite different than the one to which I was responding.

Re read what you said originally. Do you not agree that you have said two different things?
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No, I don't agree. Specifically, what do you think is different or contradictory?
 
OrangeBowl said:
OFFENSE: Paul

DEFENSE: Poyer
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Do you really think Paul sees enough snaps for that to happen?

It's possible, I guess, but that would mean several things has to fall in line. To state the obvious ones:

TA would have to be injured for a large portion of the season.

Paul would have to show better than a very experienced, and familiar with the offense Lamm.
 
Mach2 said:
Do you really think Paul sees enough snaps for that to happen?

It's possible, I guess, but that would mean several things has to fall in line. To state the obvious ones:

TA would have to be injured for a large portion of the season.

Paul would have to show better than a very experienced, and familiar with the offense Lamm.
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Its not about how many reps paul gets its about how many reps and games terron DOESNT get. And he will miss more games than he plays in again. He wont practice much like last year.

Now throw in the tackle carnage from last season and the fact our finz are a 24/7 injury factory and there ya have it. McD knows all this and is going to make sure paul gets plenty of reps and pre season game time.

Lamm was a great find last year until.....well until he went armstrong on us but he is no perenial all pro and been on several teams. I think pauls physical assets are better than lamm's and his ceiling is higher. Outside of injury i think paul beats out lamm straight out.

"TA would have to be injured for a large portion of the season."

I Think that is the surest thing in this whole debate.
 
coaches and players watch the tape from the previous game,?this is where Tua can see that receivers 3-5 cannot uncover with any confidence so he has to go 1,2 most of the time.

Perhaps when he sees Beckham and Smith uncover on tape he will then trust them enough for him to target them.
 
djphinfan said:
coaches and players watch the tape from the previous game,?this is where Tua can see that receivers 3-5 cannot uncover with any confidence so he has to go 1,2 most of the time.

Perhaps when he sees Beckham and Smith uncover on tape he will then trust them enough for him to target them.
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So your theory is that he threw so much to 1 and 2 not because they were the 1 and 2 options, but because you think he saw on tape that 3-5 could not "uncover with confidence"?

By definition of being in 3-5, 3-5 won't be targeted unless 1 and 2 are covered.

The Dolphins did not have a problem with 3-5 getting open compared to other teams. Tua almost never took coverage sacks, he rarely ran and he rarely threw the ball away. Those are the things that happen when 3-5 can't get open and those things happened less with the Dolphins than any other team. 3-5 produced efficiently and better than the vast majority of teams. I haven't compared them to every team but I compared them to the other good teams and only the Niners got better efficiency from 3-5 and that's because their 3 was either Deebo or Kittle and therefore better than the other teams' 3.
 
Fineas said:
It doesn't though. In zone coverage, which defenses play 85-90% of the time against the Dolphins, defenders cover territory and don't change that terrioroty based on the numbers on the WRs' jerseys or who got more targets to that point. Making a lesser receiver the target more often doesn't free up anything for anyone, in zone coverage or otherwise. LBs won't play closer -- they will play the territory that they are supposed to play based on the zone coverage call. When the TE enters the defender's zone the defender will cover him regardless of the name or number on his jersey and regardless of whether he has been targeted previously. The same is true when Hill or Waddle enter the zone.

Every defense covers every receiver, unless there is a coverage mistake. No DC designs coverages to leave any NFL WR, TE or RB uncovered.
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Well, we disagree here.
TT did not ignore an open receiver. Mcd did. He has staff in the booth to tell him the D is focused on TH/waddle. And, yes, one of #3 or #4 receivers were open often. Not lonely, but NFL open.
Yes, TH did have 2-3 defenders near him at the time of reception though not always. Not man coverage, but when TT's eyes went his way, he drew a crowd. Yes, at times, he had 4 defenders around him.
Yes, TT threw jump balls when TH or Waddle were triple covered.
Yes, LBs dropped deeper than usual because they knew Mcd didn't use the 5 yds past the LOS. True, they still played zone. Don't deny that. But a deeper zone.
All of these are on tape. I'm not arguing these were common (except the LB). But they happened. Part on Mcd. Part on TT. Part on a MASH unit OL.
I agree no DC intentionally ignores a receiver, but they do spend resources on the 1-2 most targeted and dangerous and have defenders watch them more closely. They do, at times, put a LB on the #4WR (Brady was the master at taking advantage of that), or the #4CB on a #3WR. When the D is playing zone, it's up to the OC to to put the quick/fast receiver in a position to take advantage of the weakest zone defender. Either Mcd didn't or the D's game plan was to focus on TH/waddle. DCs did drop LBs into timing windows which is not quite 'zone,' but they did have an area to defend.
My sole point is Mcd/TT should NOT have had TH/Waddle 1 and 2 in progression 95% of the time (I made that # up). 3rd and 4 is a perfect time to target a TE close to the LOS. There wasn't even a TE route for that. Have a RB leak past the LOS. Nope. It was a pass behind the LOS. We know how effective that was.
Yes, target TH/waddle. Yes, give them a lot of targets, but if the D is not defending the 5yds past LOS or have a weak zone defender against Berrios, take advantage of it. again, we've all seen games where the #3 WR dominated a game. That's not because he was always #3 in progreesion.
If I'm way off, I'm certain many here will call me out. I don't think I am.
 
Fuller on D and Brewer on O because they are starters and will play the most, having a chance for greatest impact. Of the rookies, have to go with Chop and Wright for the same reason, they should play a lot and therefore have chances at impact plays. As has been mentioned, it is a real positive that so many different guys have been mentioned. A case could be made for many of the new guys!
 
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