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Research Help on WCO...

Disnardo

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Hello guys and gals, I want to do a research on teams that used this West Coast Offense. I know of some teams like GB, Denver and others that run this style of Offense.

I don't know if this is right place to post it, so admin can move if need be...

What I need is for anyone that can remember as many teams that do run it and post a reply. I will let you all know how it turns out at the end...

Thanks for the time taken... :)
 
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Which west coast are you refering too?
 
There is a reason that I ask.

A direct decendant of the real west coast offense just left the team.

I think you'll find a good start with alot of links in this thread.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=28368

Others have participated in similar discussions but I only specifically remember that one because I was a participant.

A good start to your search would be the Walsh Tree. Make sure you match the coach to the years that they were actually with the teams. For instance the New York Giants will probably be abandoning the Walsh offense just as I think San Fransisco has.

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Check your PM's.
 
ZOD said:
There is a reason that I ask.

A direct decendant of the real west coast offense just left the team.

I think you'll find a good start with alot of links in this thread.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=28368

Others have participated in similar discussions but I only specifically remember that one because I was a participant.

A good start to your search would be the Walsh Tree. Make sure you match the coach to the years that they were actually with the teams. For instance the New York Giants will probably be abandoning the Walsh offense just as I think San Fransisco has.

clear.gif


Check your PM's.

That link you gave is a fantastic discussion and one I may bump back up to the top of the page. It's a great read and really gives you a good read on the differences between the gimmick offense of Bill Walsh and the true offense of Norv Turner.

One thing that was touched on briefly in that threat but was never really elaborated is the running backs. Ricky Williams is at his best as an in between the tackles runner. He is a runner that is a ball control rusher that's going to have a lot of 2-3 yard gains mixed in with a lot of 6-7 yard gains. He is also a runner that gets stronger as the game goes along and gets stronger with more carries. He is a back that can play on all three downs because of his receiving ability as well as his blocking ability.

Ricky Williams would be severely miscast in the Bill Walsh style of offense. They tried to put him in that offense in New Orleans when they brought in Mike McCarthy. By the end of that season, Ricky Williams was getting an average of 18 carries a game. It would be a travesty for the Miami Dolphins to attempt to employ a ball control passing offense like Bill Walsh's style with a running back like Ricky Williams in the backfield.

This football team has two wide receivers, a tight end, a tailback, and a fullback that fit the Norv Turner/Don Coryell/Ernie Zampese/Mike Martz/Sid Gillman style. They are working on getting the blockers up front to fit the zone blocking style they want to employ as well as getting the QB that can read the field and attack the field vertically. Why should they base an offense around the limitations of their quarterback? Why not just get a quarterback that can fit in with the offense they want to run and have the talent at just about every other position to run?
 
Still, in the NFL these days an offense has a little of everything in it. We will still be the Norv Turner/Zampese style of offense. But it doesn't hurt to emphasize 3 to 5 step drops for a lot of the passing plays. If Fiedler (God forbid) wins the job, then these throws will help him with his subpar arm strength. If Feeley wins, it helps him become confident. The line blocking and formations will be the same though.
 
The thing is, those three-to-five step drop, short, quick throws may help Fiedler with his lack of arm strength, but they will not help Ricky Williams nor the offensive line against those 8 man fronts.

My premise is this. Attacking the field horizontally is not going to open up the in between the tackles rushing game.

Miami needs the deep outs, the deep posts down the middle of the field, and the downfield passing game off the play action fake because that is the style of passing that fits best with a power zone rushing attack.
 
Zod, I was reading through the thread you linked and wanted to comment on the defensive scheme post you had. You quoted Steve Young saying that he loved seeing man to man defense. He really didn't specify if it was a press man or an off man scheme though.

I want to bring up the Miami Dolphins/Oakland Raiders game back in 2002. IMO, Miami's press-man scheme totally dominated the Raiders offense that day. The press at the line disrupted the timing of the Raiders passing offense. They forced Rich Gannon into making turnovers and bad throws, and Jon Gruden didn't attempt to offset this with the running game. Basically, it was a day where Jon Gruden was outcoached by Dave Wannstedt.

Miami's defense is a 4-3 chase scheme. They rely on their front four to get pressure, so they want defensive ends with the speed to rush the passer around the edge. They line their ends up wide and have them rush up the field on most snaps. This allows them to get consistent pressure with those ends, and it also makes it difficult to run on them to the outside. They rely on two big tackles to collapse the inside pocket and occupy blockers inside, which allows the linebackers to read and flow to the ball. The linebackers all all off the ball and line up inside the ends, and their main assignment is to simply flow to the ball. The Dolphins also disguise their coverages more than some people think. They press at the line on 90% of the snaps, and they will run a cover 2 man under scheme with the press as well as a cover 4 zone with that press. The basic premise of Wannstedt's 4-3 scheme is to create turnovers and get the offense back on the field.
 
KBISBACK said:
Zod, I was reading through the thread you linked and wanted to comment on the defensive scheme post you had. You quoted Steve Young saying that he loved seeing man to man defense. He really didn't specify if it was a press man or an off man scheme though.

I want to bring up the Miami Dolphins/Oakland Raiders game back in 2002. IMO, Miami's press-man scheme totally dominated the Raiders offense that day. The press at the line disrupted the timing of the Raiders passing offense. They forced Rich Gannon into making turnovers and bad throws, and Jon Gruden didn't attempt to offset this with the running game. Basically, it was a day where Jon Gruden was outcoached by Dave Wannstedt.

Miami's defense is a 4-3 chase scheme. They rely on their front four to get pressure, so they want defensive ends with the speed to rush the passer around the edge. They line their ends up wide and have them rush up the field on most snaps. This allows them to get consistent pressure with those ends, and it also makes it difficult to run on them to the outside. They rely on two big tackles to collapse the inside pocket and occupy blockers inside, which allows the linebackers to read and flow to the ball. The linebackers all all off the ball and line up inside the ends, and their main assignment is to simply flow to the ball. The Dolphins also disguise their coverages more than some people think. They press at the line on 90% of the snaps, and they will run a cover 2 man under scheme with the press as well as a cover 4 zone with that press. The basic premise of Wannstedt's 4-3 scheme is to create turnovers and get the offense back on the field.

You need to lay off the videogames.
 
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