Slimm's 2018 Quarterbacks (Seniors)
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ckparrothead
Premium Member
Chris Streveler is the hottest rookie QB fresh out of college to the CFL in about 25 years. Maybe the hottest first year starter, whether true rookie or not.
He DUSTED Mike Sherman's Montreal Alouettes 56-10. They actually had to pull him with the score 49-10 because it would've looked like running up the score. He was 22 of 28 for 246 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 10 runs for 98 yards and another TD. He's now scored 7 touchdowns and thrown 2 interceptions, scoring 86 points in 2 games.
The more I've watched the CFL over the years, during the down time between the draft and the start of training camps and whatnot, the more I've grown to appreciate what a different league it is. People tend to think of it as a league for players that couldn't cut it in the NFL. But there are quarterbacks up there that I know could play in the NFL, especially as primary backups, if not starters. They have to learn to process things pretty differently, with that 12th defender really changing the complexity of the defensive coverage reads. This is why Chris Streveler was the first rookie out of college to start at QB since 1994. You just can't make that transition at the snap of your fingers unless you're really special, from a mental/character/intelligence standpoint.
The down side of course is, you're learning a different game, and so when you try and transition back over to the NFL, there can be just as many problems as there were for kids fresh out of college (which plays American style) attempting to transition to Canadian style football. It's not a qualitative issue. It's about the learning and habits you develop in a different game, reading 12 defenders, using guys that get a running head start before the snap, using a wider field, and having only two downs to gain 9 or more yards...you've got to unlearn and then re-learn the old game with better athletes than you've ever faced.
NFL screwed up not giving Streveler a chance. He may stay in Canada even with multiple offers to come down South.
Nice recap of the game.
https://www.cfl.ca/2018/06/23/recap-winnipeg-56-montreal-10/
He DUSTED Mike Sherman's Montreal Alouettes 56-10. They actually had to pull him with the score 49-10 because it would've looked like running up the score. He was 22 of 28 for 246 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 10 runs for 98 yards and another TD. He's now scored 7 touchdowns and thrown 2 interceptions, scoring 86 points in 2 games.
The more I've watched the CFL over the years, during the down time between the draft and the start of training camps and whatnot, the more I've grown to appreciate what a different league it is. People tend to think of it as a league for players that couldn't cut it in the NFL. But there are quarterbacks up there that I know could play in the NFL, especially as primary backups, if not starters. They have to learn to process things pretty differently, with that 12th defender really changing the complexity of the defensive coverage reads. This is why Chris Streveler was the first rookie out of college to start at QB since 1994. You just can't make that transition at the snap of your fingers unless you're really special, from a mental/character/intelligence standpoint.
The down side of course is, you're learning a different game, and so when you try and transition back over to the NFL, there can be just as many problems as there were for kids fresh out of college (which plays American style) attempting to transition to Canadian style football. It's not a qualitative issue. It's about the learning and habits you develop in a different game, reading 12 defenders, using guys that get a running head start before the snap, using a wider field, and having only two downs to gain 9 or more yards...you've got to unlearn and then re-learn the old game with better athletes than you've ever faced.
NFL screwed up not giving Streveler a chance. He may stay in Canada even with multiple offers to come down South.
Nice recap of the game.
https://www.cfl.ca/2018/06/23/recap-winnipeg-56-montreal-10/
Streveler’s release is insane. Was hoping Miami would’ve picked him up.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
The argument against him is just that it's clear when you watch he and Bryan Bennett for example throw in the same game, Streveler doesn't have the same arm.
But that's something you can't treat simply. It's important for NFL passers to have good enough arm strength that they've got all the throws in their arsenal, but beyond that it's not as if incremental increases in arm strength lead to incremental increases in quarterback performance.
What you find is that at the fringes, there are effects. When you've got an arm like Josh Allen's, that isn't an incremental increase in arm strength. He's at the top fringe and as a result he frequently made plays that can destroy an entire defensive effort. At the other end of the spectrum when you've got an arm that can't deliver certain passes, the box closes in on you and things become that much harder.
If you're somewhere in-between those, I'm not sure it matters that much, and I would say that for example when you watch the Winnipeg-Montreal game and you see Chris Streveler throw and then you see Bryan Bennett throw, you're looking at two guys that are different places on the spectrum, but neither of them at the fringes.
Besides. A quick release will get you a lot of what incremental velocity could get you. And the opposite is true (e.g. Colin Kaepernick).
But that's something you can't treat simply. It's important for NFL passers to have good enough arm strength that they've got all the throws in their arsenal, but beyond that it's not as if incremental increases in arm strength lead to incremental increases in quarterback performance.
What you find is that at the fringes, there are effects. When you've got an arm like Josh Allen's, that isn't an incremental increase in arm strength. He's at the top fringe and as a result he frequently made plays that can destroy an entire defensive effort. At the other end of the spectrum when you've got an arm that can't deliver certain passes, the box closes in on you and things become that much harder.
If you're somewhere in-between those, I'm not sure it matters that much, and I would say that for example when you watch the Winnipeg-Montreal game and you see Chris Streveler throw and then you see Bryan Bennett throw, you're looking at two guys that are different places on the spectrum, but neither of them at the fringes.
Besides. A quick release will get you a lot of what incremental velocity could get you. And the opposite is true (e.g. Colin Kaepernick).
TripleThreat
Living the dream
Bumping last years thread to wonder a bit about Luke Falk. One of the visits for the Dolphins, gets drafted late by Tenn and the Dolphins snipe the Titans as they try to put him on the PS.
Is there anything here worthwhile? Could he be in the mix as the backup next year? Decent project or....
Is there anything here worthwhile? Could he be in the mix as the backup next year? Decent project or....
Geordie
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Chris Steveler didn't do that great, he couldn't unseat the starter there in Winnipeg. Honestly if you can't manage to start in the CFL even in your Rookie year, your unlikely to be able to make it in a real league like the NFL.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Honestly your take tells me that you don't know the CFL at all. I mean, that's no sin, but you're way out over your skis on this one.
Geordie
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I live in Calgary dude !! I watch a fair bit of it, my local Stamps are Grey Cup champs and head and shoulders the best team up here for the last decade or so. The quality is abysmal though it really is. You watch some of the QB play here and shake your head, the game favours QBs way more and passing should be a lot easier, some of the same QBs turn up every year on different teams, I've lost count of the number of teams the likes of Henry Burress and Ricky Ray have played for, and they play until they are 70 it would seem, with very little in the way of young talent coming up to challenge them.
I must admit you are right in the fact that I had never seen Steveler play last year, but I also never heard his name mentioned once when folks were talking about the Blue Bombers. That's not a good sign. Bo Levi Mitchell is by a long way the best QB up here, he's the Stamps QB. I've obviously watched him more than anyone else in the CFL, he's really not that great by NFL standards, he's been working out for JAX recently, not sure if they sign him but he would be back up at best, even at JAX and he's the best we have to offer. The odd player comes by like, Flutie and Wake, that stands out above the others and it's obvious. Maybe Wiinpeg have been taking it slowly with the guy, but he did play in 12 games this year and like I said I haven't even heard his name being talked about, trust me if there is a young QB here who's going to take over the league, they will shout very loud about it.
I will try to keep an eye on him though, if Bo Levi does move down south, the Stamps will need a new QB, if he's as good as you are making out, it'll be telling if the best team in the league make a move for him.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
First off there are a bare handful of CFL teams, so only a few spots for a QB to take up residence.
Second, with 12-man defense and the changes that does to coverages, the CFL tends to rotate between a handful of proven quarterbacks and then just pass them around back and forth. They tend to be very exclusive about which QBs they give a chance to.
I see this all the time and it's pure nonsense, people talk about a draft pick and say that either he'll be an NFL quarterback or he'll go up to the CFL and do really well. And that QB almost invariably does nothing in the CFL because there aren't many rooms at the motel to begin with, the overwhelming majority of them are full, and the motel owner doesn't want to rent to "your kind" (rookies from American colleges).
When Chris Streveler started Week 1 for a CFL team as a rookie from American college, it was the first time that had happened in what, 30 years? I believe only three guys have done it, those being Anthony Calvillo, Joe Theisman, and Chris Streveler. I'm sure you've heard of the other two.
You're sitting here saying he didn't do so well because when Matt Nichols got healthy he got his starting job back, but Matt Nichols is one of those handful of CFL quarterbacks that gets passed around because he's proven. And he performs pretty well. There was never even a possibility for Streveler to earn the job above him, regardless of how well he did.
Streveler started the first three games of the year, as I said becoming only the third rookie to ever do that along with Joe Theisman and Anthony Calvillo, and he went 54 of 86 for 570 yards, 6 TD and 2 INT, with 22 runs for 183 yards and 2 rush TD.
He finished the year 86 of 140 for 1,134 yards, 11 TD and 5 INT, with 77 runs for 441 yards and 10 rush TD.
Chris Streveler isn't in the NFL for one big reason. He doesn't have the arm strength they like.
I tend to be more forgiving of the velocity thing than the NFL. I thought a guy like Streveler, with one of the quickest releases I've ever seen, could make up for the lack of velocity with that fast release and his mobility. The NFL doesn't agree.
Second, with 12-man defense and the changes that does to coverages, the CFL tends to rotate between a handful of proven quarterbacks and then just pass them around back and forth. They tend to be very exclusive about which QBs they give a chance to.
I see this all the time and it's pure nonsense, people talk about a draft pick and say that either he'll be an NFL quarterback or he'll go up to the CFL and do really well. And that QB almost invariably does nothing in the CFL because there aren't many rooms at the motel to begin with, the overwhelming majority of them are full, and the motel owner doesn't want to rent to "your kind" (rookies from American colleges).
When Chris Streveler started Week 1 for a CFL team as a rookie from American college, it was the first time that had happened in what, 30 years? I believe only three guys have done it, those being Anthony Calvillo, Joe Theisman, and Chris Streveler. I'm sure you've heard of the other two.
You're sitting here saying he didn't do so well because when Matt Nichols got healthy he got his starting job back, but Matt Nichols is one of those handful of CFL quarterbacks that gets passed around because he's proven. And he performs pretty well. There was never even a possibility for Streveler to earn the job above him, regardless of how well he did.
Streveler started the first three games of the year, as I said becoming only the third rookie to ever do that along with Joe Theisman and Anthony Calvillo, and he went 54 of 86 for 570 yards, 6 TD and 2 INT, with 22 runs for 183 yards and 2 rush TD.
He finished the year 86 of 140 for 1,134 yards, 11 TD and 5 INT, with 77 runs for 441 yards and 10 rush TD.
Chris Streveler isn't in the NFL for one big reason. He doesn't have the arm strength they like.
I tend to be more forgiving of the velocity thing than the NFL. I thought a guy like Streveler, with one of the quickest releases I've ever seen, could make up for the lack of velocity with that fast release and his mobility. The NFL doesn't agree.
Geordie
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Probably a little flippant with my first remark, apologies for that, hope I didn't offend, wasn't meant to bash your analysis.
All I said was that he hasn't stood out, he might well in the future, but doesn't happen too often these days that you come up for CFL here and you then get plucked to go play in the big league. It's exciting, 3 down football with wider fields and bigger end zones, but pretty much everyone up here will agree the standard is nowhere near that of the NFL.
Like I said I will keep an eye on him, you're great at picking out these off the norm kind of guys. Learning your trade in the CFL used to be a thing though, I don't think it is anymore.
All I said was that he hasn't stood out, he might well in the future, but doesn't happen too often these days that you come up for CFL here and you then get plucked to go play in the big league. It's exciting, 3 down football with wider fields and bigger end zones, but pretty much everyone up here will agree the standard is nowhere near that of the NFL.
Like I said I will keep an eye on him, you're great at picking out these off the norm kind of guys. Learning your trade in the CFL used to be a thing though, I don't think it is anymore.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I dunno. I watched a fair number of Blue Bomber games and paid attention to a lot of Blue Bomber stories toward the beginning of the year. Seemed like Streveler was all they could talk about, because of how odd it was for a rookie to be doing the things he was doing, to put himself in the position he'd put himself in.
It was a big deal. Just as it had been a big deal when Rakeem Cato had done a similar thing with the Montreal Alouettes, although even he didn't do it Week 1, and he fizzled out quickly under the weight of his own poor off-field decision making.
Understandably, when Matt Nichols returned from injury and took back over, and now they're using Chris Streveler in sort of a Tim Tebow type role if you think back to what Tebow did with the Denver Broncos when Josh McDaniels was the head coach, it became less of a story that everyone's talking about. But the fact of the matter is on a full year basis he did well by any standards, and EXTREMELY well for a CFL rookie.
Among qualifying QBs in the CFL this year (those that threw 50+ attempts), the highest passer rating was a 99.6 from Trevor Harris. Chris Streveler, whose 140 attempts more than qualifies him, had a 98.3 passer rating. It was significantly higher than Matt Nichols's 91.0 passer rating, so it may be a matter of time before Streveler jumps him.
I believe Streveler on a two-year deal and there's a clause that doesn't allow him to go to the NFL until his CFL contract is up. That makes things interesting because the NFL did have SOME interest in him, and after doing things that pretty much no rookie CFL quarterback has ever done, and especially with how BEREFT the current draft class looks...the NFL may have increased interest.
The Blue Bombers may feel like they have a better chance of getting him to sign another contract if they keep him on the bench another year. If they have him start the whole year and then suddenly his contract is up and he's got a window where he could entertain NFL offers...they could lose him. He's a younger Taysom Hill, at worst.
Of course, if they keep him on the bench yet another year even though he's honestly performing a little bit better than the starter...then he could buck the CFL for the first NFL team that blinks at him.
It was a big deal. Just as it had been a big deal when Rakeem Cato had done a similar thing with the Montreal Alouettes, although even he didn't do it Week 1, and he fizzled out quickly under the weight of his own poor off-field decision making.
Understandably, when Matt Nichols returned from injury and took back over, and now they're using Chris Streveler in sort of a Tim Tebow type role if you think back to what Tebow did with the Denver Broncos when Josh McDaniels was the head coach, it became less of a story that everyone's talking about. But the fact of the matter is on a full year basis he did well by any standards, and EXTREMELY well for a CFL rookie.
Among qualifying QBs in the CFL this year (those that threw 50+ attempts), the highest passer rating was a 99.6 from Trevor Harris. Chris Streveler, whose 140 attempts more than qualifies him, had a 98.3 passer rating. It was significantly higher than Matt Nichols's 91.0 passer rating, so it may be a matter of time before Streveler jumps him.
I believe Streveler on a two-year deal and there's a clause that doesn't allow him to go to the NFL until his CFL contract is up. That makes things interesting because the NFL did have SOME interest in him, and after doing things that pretty much no rookie CFL quarterback has ever done, and especially with how BEREFT the current draft class looks...the NFL may have increased interest.
The Blue Bombers may feel like they have a better chance of getting him to sign another contract if they keep him on the bench another year. If they have him start the whole year and then suddenly his contract is up and he's got a window where he could entertain NFL offers...they could lose him. He's a younger Taysom Hill, at worst.
Of course, if they keep him on the bench yet another year even though he's honestly performing a little bit better than the starter...then he could buck the CFL for the first NFL team that blinks at him.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Incidentally I will be watching with mild interest what Mike Reilly of Edmonton does.
I would not at all agree that Bo Levi Mitchell is the best CFL quarterback. Not by a long shot.
Mike Reilly is better. He was the Most Outstanding Player in 2017 and he absolutely should've gotten it again in 2018. He had a slightly higher passer rating PLUS 120 carries for 530 yards and 13 TDs. Bo Levi Mitchell doesn't do sh-t on the ground.
But Mike Reilly's contract is up and there are some folks wondering if even at 33 years old he might give the NFL a try.
He just held a workout for the Jacksonville Jaguars.
I would not at all agree that Bo Levi Mitchell is the best CFL quarterback. Not by a long shot.
Mike Reilly is better. He was the Most Outstanding Player in 2017 and he absolutely should've gotten it again in 2018. He had a slightly higher passer rating PLUS 120 carries for 530 yards and 13 TDs. Bo Levi Mitchell doesn't do sh-t on the ground.
But Mike Reilly's contract is up and there are some folks wondering if even at 33 years old he might give the NFL a try.
He just held a workout for the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Geordie
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You are talking to someone who lives in Calgary, we hate Edmonton here. I've got to stay loyal to the folks here and not give Reilly any credit whatsover. There is a lot of bias. Bo Levi is very much a gunslinger, that's why he's been so successful up here, he'll throw his fair share of Ints but that's his style. You are right he's not going to do anything with his legs, but he's got arm talent few in the CFL have so he doesn't need to. The Stamps have had the best regular season record I believe, in every single season he has been the starter, we should have won way more than 2 grey cups but have consistently choked in the big game. I think the common consensus across the CFL is that Mitchell is the best QB we've seen in a long while, his record certainly shows that, I would like to see him in the NFL but I wouldn't expect much of him, I would expect less of Reilly though, not a fan.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Bo Levi Mitchell is going to be attractive because he's only 28 years old whereas Mike Reilly is 33 going on 34.
He's had tryouts with the Minnesota Vikings (Rick Spielman always loves doing CFL tryouts) and the Denver Broncos. We will see on him. Not sure I see it.
He's had tryouts with the Minnesota Vikings (Rick Spielman always loves doing CFL tryouts) and the Denver Broncos. We will see on him. Not sure I see it.
Geordie
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And that's a big thing, Bo has been the starter on the best team for the last 5 or so years, 4 grey cup appearances and 2 wins, yet still only 28. Would love to see him get a job down there. Reilly has been to one Grey cup is already well into his 30's and been cut from 3 or 4 NFL teams, think his time in the big league has come and gone.