Qb Pick Now, Or Qb Pick Next Draft? | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Qb Pick Now, Or Qb Pick Next Draft?

LOL this is fun reading. Having watched a fair bit of both these guys during the season, I feel somewhat qualified to add my 2 cents:

I would without hesitation move up for Haskins, he is legit and easily worthy of a top 10 pick. I would equally be super happy if we picked Tua #1 overall next year. I absolutely think both guys have a chance to transform this franchise. Neither are locks for that kind of effect however and both have some things they will need good coaching to overcome before they are ready.

For much of the season Tua was as "can't miss" a prospect as you could get, can't remember how long it took, maybe 10 games for him to trow his first Int. Then the bowl season happened and this for me is where concerns began to surface. He was pretty poor against Georgia and Bama had to rely on Hurts to get them back into the game, he bounced and played lights out against Murray's Sooners, but then dipped again in the NC game. Both Clemson and Georgia had stacked D's and it was a great test for him but not one he came through with glowing reference. Next year we need to see him tested more like these games and we need to see him rise to the occasion like he did in the 2018 NC game, it's a big year for him.

I first really took interest in Haskins against Purdue, I didn't think much of him and couldn't understand the hype, the whole team was pretty awful and get humiliated by a .500 team. At that point there was no way he should be anywhere near a first round pick. But fast forward to the Maryland game and Haskins puts the team on his back and wins. In that game I thought he really grew up and became someone you’ve got to seriously look at if he declared. He then goes on a ridiculous streak down the stretch, just look at those stats, culminating in a simply dominating performance against a pretty ordinary Northwestern team in the Big 10 champ game and an efficient performance in winning the Rose Bowl. What I saw from him was a maturation throughout the year, as the season went on he simply got better and better.

I think Slimm is absolutely right when he mentions the level of competition Haskins has faced compared with that of Tua’s , but Haskins, Purdue, Maryland or Northwestern are not on the same level as the likes of Clemson, Georgia and LSU but he did put up great numbers against a very good Michigan D and overcame a tough Washington defense in the Rose Bowl. I’m no expert evaluator like Slimm absolutely is but I do believe that College should be a progression, you should see a player make progress in the right direction. That’s where Haskins and Lock for me get checks in the boxes and where Tua needs to show next year, that’s he’s made strides forward, there’s really not a lot to fix with him but he’s also not the completely finished article he look like he was for much last season.
 
Geordie said:
LOL this is fun reading. Having watched a fair bit of both these guys during the season, I feel somewhat qualified to add my 2 cents:

I would without hesitation move up for Haskins, he is legit and easily worthy of a top 10 pick. I would equally be super happy if we picked Tua #1 overall next year. I absolutely think both guys have a chance to transform this franchise. Neither are locks for that kind of effect however and both have some things they will need good coaching to overcome before they are ready.

For much of the season Tua was as "can't miss" a prospect as you could get, can't remember how long it took, maybe 10 games for him to trow his first Int. Then the bowl season happened and this for me is where concerns began to surface. He was pretty poor against Georgia and Bama had to rely on Hurts to get them back into the game, he bounced and played lights out against Murray's Sooners, but then dipped again in the NC game. Both Clemson and Georgia had stacked D's and it was a great test for him but not one he came through with glowing reference. Next year we need to see him tested more like these games and we need to see him rise to the occasion like he did in the 2018 NC game, it's a big year for him.

I first really took interest in Haskins against Purdue, I didn't think much of him and couldn't understand the hype, the whole team was pretty awful and get humiliated by a .500 team. At that point there was no way he should be anywhere near a first round pick. But fast forward to the Maryland game and Haskins puts the team on his back and wins. In that game I thought he really grew up and became someone you’ve got to seriously look at if he declared. He then goes on a ridiculous streak down the stretch, just look at those stats, culminating in a simply dominating performance against a pretty ordinary Northwestern team in the Big 10 champ game and an efficient performance in winning the Rose Bowl. What I saw from him was a maturation throughout the year, as the season went on he simply got better and better.

I think Slimm is absolutely right when he mentions the level of competition Haskins has faced compared with that of Tua’s , but Haskins, Purdue, Maryland or Northwestern are not on the same level as the likes of Clemson, Georgia and LSU but he did put up great numbers against a very good Michigan D and overcame a tough Washington defense in the Rose Bowl. I’m no expert evaluator like Slimm absolutely is but I do believe that College should be a progression, you should see a player make progress in the right direction. That’s where Haskins and Lock for me get checks in the boxes and where Tua needs to show next year, that’s he’s made strides forward, there’s really not a lot to fix with him but he’s also not the completely finished article he look like he was for much last season.
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What I think is interesting about this entire topic is that there is VERY little conversation being had about a specific player mentioned above.

Remember, Kyler Murray came out of freaking nowhere to win the Heisman. This time last year? He wasn't even in the top 20 favorites to win the thing.

So next year it's Tua, Fromm, Herbert or Love, right?

The guy I think everyone is forgetting about is Jalen Hurts, who is taking over for Murray, and just might light everyone the hell up in Oklahoma's offense. Who knows who we'll be talking about a year from now.
 
Hurts may very well have a shot the Heisman playing in Oklahoma's offense. They might as well just change the name of the trophy to the "whatever QB is playing for Oklahoma trophy". But Hurts cannot play QB in the NFL. I believe a position switch would have to happen in order for him to have sort of NFL career.

He cannot throw with any level of anticipation or make it beyond his first read. The receivers at Bama were fixing to have a revolt in the locker room at halftime of the national championship game against UGA. They were tired of running wide open down the field for 2 years and Hurts not being able to get the ball to 'em. I watched it every week. Tua is the one that had to come in and save Jalen's bacon...because of poor performance. Not because of injury.

Secondly, Tua didn't even have a bad game vs. Clemson. He played fine. It was the playcalling when Bama was down there inside the 10 in scoring situations that was the offense's undoing. 4 or 5 times they came away with zero points trying to run it in after taking the ball out of Tua's hands via the pass. After he had gotten them down there in the first place. The offensive coaches already had one foot out the door headed to Maryland or Miami or Michigan or Georgia Tech.

Nevermind the defensive collapse with a couple of the worst DB's Alabama has ever put on the field. Saivion Smith literally got slapped to the ground by true freshman Justyn Ross at the LOS and faked an Achilles injury on the play. That's how bad that kid was. Along with a game plan by Tosh Lupoi that revolved around putting no pressure on Trevor Lawrence. Zero. None whatsoever. That's why he was shipped off to the Cleveland Browns. Saban made a few phone calls to get this guy a job instead of demoting him. He couldn't stay.

Bottom line is one quarterback faced pressure in that game and the other didn't. But completing nearly 65% of your passes for almost 300 yards and 2 touchdowns up against what he was up against wasn't the problem. He's the only reason the score wasn't 52-0. It was a colosal coaching disaster all around is what that was. Not a quarterback issue.
 
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Locke said:
Your opinion doesn’t matter. My opinion doesn’t matter. Grier and Marino’s opinion doesn’t matter. Ghandi’s opinion doesn’t matter. Flying Spaghetti Monster’s opinion doesn’t matter. All that matters is if they are elite. ELITEZZZZZZZZ
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Rofl ;o
 
fansinceGWilson said:
There is a difference between 'direct' correlation and 'close' correlation. And don't ignore "equivalent." ALL R1 picks have high performance data in college. How many have high performance data in the NFL. And if performance data were THE evaluation tool, why have a combine, or the Wonderlic, or interviews, or . . .
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As soon as someone makes a point that completely destroys his arguments, such as the final part of this one about the Wonderlic and testing etc, he just completely ignores it and moves on to trolling the next message....

some of the threads are becoming almost unreadable.... 5+ pages of trolling and responses...
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Hurts may very well have a shot the Heisman playing in Oklahoma's offense. They might as well just change the name of the trophy to the "whatever QB is playing for Oklahoma trophy". But Hurts cannot play QB in the NFL. I believe a position switch would have to happen in order for him to have sort of NFL career.

He cannot throw with any level of anticipation or make it beyond his first read. The receivers at Bama were fixing to have a revolt in the locker room at halftime of the national championship game against UGA. They were tired of running wide open down the field for 2 years and Hurts not being able to get the ball to 'em. I watched it every week. Tua is the one that had to come in and save Jalen's bacon...because of poor performance. Not because of injury.

Secondly, Tua didn't even have a bad game vs. Clemson. He played fine. It was the playcalling when Bama was down there inside the 10 in scoring situations that was the offense's undoing. 4 or 5 times they came away with zero points trying to run it in after taking the ball out of Tua's hands via the pass. After he had gotten them down there in the first place. The offensive coaches already had one foot out the door headed to Maryland or Miami or Michigan or Georgia Tech.

Nevermind the defensive collapse with a couple of the worst DB's Alabama has ever put on the field. Saivion Smith literally got slapped to the ground by true freshman Justyn Ross at the LOS and faked an Achilles injury on the play. That's how bad that kid was. Along with a game plan by Tosh Lupoi that revolved around putting no pressure on Trevor Lawrence. Zero. None whatsoever. That's why he was shipped off to the Cleveland Browns. Saban made a few phone calls to get this guy a job instead of demoting him. He couldn't stay.

Bottom line is one quarterback faced pressure in that game and the other didn't. But completing nearly 65% of your passes for almost 300 yards and 2 touchdowns up against what he was up against wasn't the problem. He's the only reason the score wasn't 52-0. It was a colosal coaching disaster all around is what that was. Not a quarterback issue.
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I respect your opinions very much but I think your Bama bias is showing just a little. Tua was fair not good. If you are going to say Murray piled up his stats after that game was out of reach against Bama couldn't you say that about Tua also? Tua also threw two picks, as for pressure I saw Bama coming at Lawrence but he was cool under fire, Tua not so much. Obviously Tua played the best D he has played all year and he was not up to the task. Further more he is showing tendencies of of getting dinged up, losing his edge when things don't go his way and as someone else pointed out Hurtt of all people had to bail him out against Georgia.
Tua had a team absolutely LOADED with talent at every skill position while Haskins had no running game and no TE in the league of Bama's. I like them both but if I can get Haskins now I take him.
 
Unfortunately, Miami once again is in a bad timing situation. Of all the prospects out there, the only “elite” prospect is actually a potentially generational talent, but isn’t eligible for the draft for two more years. So we can pick the best of a mediocre class this year or the best of a decent class next year. I just can’t conceive of a respectable way to plan that far out (for Lawrence), as there are so many variables. If there is somehow a realistic way to get Lawrence, though, that is what I would do...how could you not?
 
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Now! because you can't really depend on production from a rookie, if he's in a system offense then you can pick him next season, but the fins don't have an identity on offense so pick him now, (Drew Lock)
 
I have to agree with Slimm.

Tua played really good in the NC and made some wow throws. Yes Trevor Lawrence was the show, but don't act like Tua wasn't great in his own right.

Clemson vs Alabama part 5 will be fun.
 
"FitzMagic" said:
I respect your opinions very much but I think your Bama bias is showing just a little. Tua was fair not good. If you are going to say Murray piled up his stats after that game was out of reach against Bama couldn't you say that about Tua also? Tua also threw two picks, as for pressure I saw Bama coming at Lawrence but he was cool under fire, Tua not so much. Obviously Tua played the best D he has played all year and he was not up to the task. Further more he is showing tendencies of of getting dinged up, losing his edge when things don't go his way and as someone else pointed out Hurtt of all people had to bail him out against Georgia.
Tua had a team absolutely LOADED with talent at every skill position while Haskins had no running game and no TE in the league of Bama's. I like them both but if I can get Haskins now I take him.
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I don't know what bias you have, but I'm beginning to lean a certain way. Usually anytime the first thing someone does is accuse you of being biased - they're being biased. My post had no bias. Only facts. I know what happened and why.

I already said Tua played fine. He did. You don't think so....oh well. One of us is wrong.

What quarterback in the country hasn't had a 2 INT game? Furthermore, Tua's first INT that resulted in a pick six wasn't on him. But that requires knowing what's going on from the playcall, down to execution, and breaking down film.

You didn't see any pressure on Lawrence. Not Bama pressure. We rushed 3 and dropped 8 all night. Rarely ever even sent a 4th rusher. Inexcusable game plan by a good young coach (Lupoi) who simply wasn't ready for the task at hand. That's why he's gone. Don't agree with me or it - take it up with Saban.

I'd suggest you take a look at the receivers Haskins had at Ohio St. and what they all just did at the combine. Along with Mike Weber. J.K. Dobbins is even better than Weber. All of Haskins top receivers were Seniors. Tua's were freshman and sophomores.

I think Haskins is a terrific quarterback. But he ain't Tua. That's just a fact. And it wouldn't change if Tua played at Ohio St. and Haskins at Alabama. It'd still be a fact.
 
By the way - Clemson spent the last year preparing for Alabama. That's why all those defensive lineman came back. This was the game Clemson prepared a year for after Alabama smothered 'em last year.

Clemson didn't even prepare for Notre Dame in the first round of the playoff - they prepped for Alabama.




Bama couldn't do that, they had to prepare for Kyler Murray and Lincoln Riley's offense. Alabama got outcoached and outprepared vs Clemson, and Clemson had the edge and wanted it more.

That won't be the case next time. It wasn't a quarterback issue.
 
Digital said:
What is that, like 3 new threads you've started in 10 minutes?

The plan is to secure a top draft pick for 2020 when the QB pool has multiple elite prospects. I'm on-board with following the plan and waiting for 2020.
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That plan is a a fiction of your imagination. Planning for a top pick is a very poor strategy and is bound to fail. Too many things go wrong. "Tanking" for that magical top pick QB is the buzzword for fans who have no idea how the NFL works and how to properly build a team. It is a simplifying method trying to understand a complex structure.
 
I have to respectfully disagree with that tweet Slimm..

Clemson prepped for ND the same way they prep for any team, including Bama. The difference from this years game versus last years game was Clemson not having Kelly Bryant and Bama losing elite DB talent. In the 2018 game Bama's offense didn't do anything special at all, it was all defense. Because defending Kelly Bryant is easier than defending Jalen Hurts.
 
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