Look Up For The Plan Is There And Happening As We Speak

cuzinvinny said:

Why move up to make a pick ? Come on Danny your smarter than that ?
Maybe we've already gone beyond the point of return to were we are just accepting being losers.

Ya giving up the 2019 season enough to have a shot next year for another huge gamble makes more sense ? ... luckily I think the Organization is not on this page....thank god

It never worked for us is just such a poor reasoning, everything is totally different now. Drafts are always a crap shot to some degree and true it may not work, but IMO its not a difficult decision to realize its definitely worth the shot because if it works which is not as complicated to happening as expecting to be in the #1 position for the QB in the 2020 draft. The benefits can be so astronomical that its almost insanity to not do.. Something I could more easily accept from most all of our previous GM's and people that made the calls.

Click to expand...

How much do you think it'd cost to move up? How much are you willing to give up to move up?
Accepting being losers? No. You're suggesting we keep on doing things that haven't worked in the past. I'm saying is time to do things different. I'm not accepting anything.

Danny said:

How much do you think it'd cost to move up? How much are you willing to give up to move up?
Accepting being losers? No. You're suggesting we keep on doing things that haven't worked in the past. I'm saying is time to do things different. I'm not accepting anything.

Click to expand...

Getting the best QB in the draft hmmm don't remember doing that before.
Ya we keep on going out on the playing fields and have failed for decades so does that mean we should stop going out on the playing field because it hasn't worked in the past ?

Let me just say I'd be willing to give up most of the 2019 draft picks. Don't want this to turn into an argument over draft picks so I won't be specific but probably can say you would probably feel it would be to much which is a whole new debate. I feel more comfortable Tanking the 2019 Draft for the right guy over the whole 2019 season on a hope.
Don't want to touch any of the 2020 draft which could be the nail in the coffin. But be open to trying to work out a deal for Murray...

Lock and Haskins fair value to move up 6-7 spots....
Hey not accusing you of the loser mentality and I find your opinions mostly always very interesting, just that again don't see a heck of a lot of difference between these 2 draft QB's and think why wait for even a potentially more difficult situation... Give it an all out try NOW...JMO

where's th'fish said:

This is a good sign in that our FO is probably not idiotic enough to "Tank for Tua" or any such nonsense. Even if you look at the entire history of the league, there's very few top-5 QBs who turned out to be transcendent talents, compared with all the busts and not-so-greats, not to mention the greats who went later. It should be obvious that losing is not a good win to win, but here we are, still discussing it as if it could be a legitimate strategy.

Click to expand...

The problem with this logic is that you're implying that the real strategy towards finding a QB is to just be lucky like most teams in the NFL did.

Who was the elite Saints QB before Brees?
Who was the elite Seahawks QB before Wilson?
Who was the elite Patriots QB before Brady?
Who was the elite Chargers QB before Rivers?
Who was the elite Falcons QB before Ryan?
etc..
etc..

These organizations aren't taking their patented QB-finding strategy and applying it multiple times because there isn't one. They do what everybody else in the NFL does and just keep picking QBs in any round and hope that they turn out to be good. Most of the time it fails which is why every team goes through long patches where they're mediocre or bad.

There are 2 teams in the NFL that went from elite QB to elite QB that I can think of off the top of my head. One is the Packers who went from Favre (2nd round) to Rodgers (#24 in the first round). Skill or luck? The other team is the Colts, and they had the #1 overall pick both times going from Manning to Luck.

So, while you can absolutely find QBs outside of the #1 overall pick, if you're going to be bad anyway why are you against hedging your bet so much by trying to do what the Colts did? Do you really care that we win 1 game as opposed to 5? Are you REALLY more excited going into 2020 off a 5 win season and a #9 pick in the draft than you would be off a 1 win season and the #1 overall pick? I'll bet not once 2020 rolls around.

The anti-tanking sentiment just seems so absolutely shortsighted to me. I'll make this real clear: The 2019 Miami Dolphins are going to be REALLY bad this year, no matter what happens. Why not make the bad season worth it by going all the way so that future seasons are better?

The 2019 Cleveland Browns are everybody's darling in the AFC North, something that was unfathomable 2 seasons ago. They made sure their bad season was worth it by finally taking a QB #1 and in 2 seasons they're going to be better than we've been in a very long time. That's what the "TankForTua" crowd is trying to get to. Do you really think we're division favorites 2 years from now if we end up having to trade up for Drew Effing Lock?

cuzinvinny said:

Getting the best QB in the draft hmmm don't remember doing that before.
Ya we keep on going out on the playing fields and have failed for decades so does that mean we should stop going out on the playing field because it hasn't worked in the past ?

Let me just say I'd be willing to give up most of the 2019 draft picks. Don't want this to turn into an argument over draft picks so I won't be specific but probably can say you would probably feel it would be to much which is a whole new debate. I feel more comfortable Tanking the 2019 Draft for the right guy over the whole 2019 season on a hope.
Don't want to touch any of the 2020 draft which could be the nail in the coffin. But be open to trying to work out a deal for Murray...

Lock and Haskins fair value to move up 6-7 spots....
Hey not accusing you of the loser mentality and I find your opinions mostly always very interesting, just that again don't see a heck of a lot of difference between these 2 draft QB's and think why wait for even a potentially more difficult situation... Give it an all out try NOW...JMO

Click to expand...

I'm all for getting the "right" QB. Believe me, we need to hit on one. Moving up for Murray would take at least our 1st and 2nd round pick this year AND next year as well. So now we'd have Murray who I really like but no 2nd this year and no 1st or 2nd next year either. Hard to get him help that way. Tanking this year while using our picks to build both lines and then have a top 2 pick in 2020 would be MY ideal. Now we can get one of the top QB's plus we would have already started building his O-line to help him out.
Btw, we're not arguing. We're stating our opinions without insulting each other like so many other people do in here....lol

cuzinvinny said:

The Plan is being played out and going over most everyones head.

The start

1. Showing the old clowns the door
2. Up and coming new Superbowl winning experience Head coach..(quality still to be determined)
3. Putting together a new staff with quality and experience sprinkled around. McKenzie, Caldwell,
4. Tannehill trade
5. Building our money supply (cap) for future use...One of McKenzies finer qualities.
6. Fitz with all his years of experience to help in the development of #7 and backup if necessary...
7. Murray, Lock, or Haskins, most likely in this years draft
8. Who knows but we are inline for an actual development to were losing is again the last option desired..

These are some of the early signs shown of the organizations plans and not lose to get the 2020 QB. Or find a real loser to QB this year. Or start the actual rebuild a year later....Hey I could be wrong but it makes a hell of a lot of sense

So far we are seeing some actual insight rarely seen the last 2 decades...with real future in mind
Will it be successful...who knows ? but it's refreshing to see the organization with an action rational plan

Click to expand...

Just listened to Joe Shad on Sirius. He believes there's no chance we will move up, give up draft picks or draft a 1st round QB. Dolphins are focused on one of the 3 stud QBs in the 2020 draft. He said Dolphins priority is 1-pass rusher/DT, 2-oline. The plan is to build both lines this year and possibly draft a backup QB later in this draft. Pretty much what we all suspected.

Agree. And I think fans should expect it to be painful. If Miami does get a quarterback this year, one of the top three, I doubt he plays much simply because it's the wrong way to build success long-term for that player. As things currently stand, Miami has the worst offensive line in football and one of the worst defensive lines as well. It's going to take time and I doubt we see many wins in 2019.

Kamelion4291 said:

So, while you can absolutely find QBs outside of the #1 overall pick, if you're going to be bad anyway why are you against hedging your bet so much by trying to do what the Colts did? ?

Click to expand...

Because winning is not only about finding an elite QB. You can win with lesser QBs if you have the right GM/HC. You can try losing to get high draft picks, then getting everyone fired after a couple of years, finding the right GM/HC and then start winning OR you can find the right GM/HC and start winning straight away.

So basically, my problem with that strategy is trying to win based on finding one savior QB who's going to compensate for a bottomless pit of suck instead of doing things the right way and building a proper team with proper coaching that can win without one of the best QBs in history.

where's th'fish said:

Because winning is not only about finding an elite QB. You can win with lesser QBs if you have the right GM/HC. You can try losing to get high draft picks, then getting everyone fired after a couple of years, finding the right GM/HC and then start winning OR you can find the right GM/HC and start winning straight away.

So basically, my problem with that strategy is trying to win based on finding one savior QB who's going to compensate for a bottomless pit of suck instead of doing things the right way and building a proper team with proper coaching that can win without one of the best QBs in history.

Click to expand...

You don't need an elite QB to win but it certainly makes the winning more consistent. The rest of that stuff is necessary regardless.

just hope they know what there doing. Key is GM. I am not sure about Tua. just me. I feel that he is on stack team.

Danny said:

I'm all for getting the "right" QB. Believe me, we need to hit on one. Moving up for Murray would take at least our 1st and 2nd round pick this year AND next year as well. So now we'd have Murray who I really like but no 2nd this year and no 1st or 2nd next year either. Hard to get him help that way. Tanking this year while using our picks to build both lines and then have a top 2 pick in 2020 would be MY ideal. Now we can get one of the top QB's plus we would have already started building his O-line to help him out.
Btw, we're not arguing. We're stating our opinions without insulting each other like so many other people do in here....lol

Click to expand...

Truthfully my friend a understand your point and find it very powerful. I've also been shouting for the last 5 years OL OL OL..
Would easily give up this years 1st. and 2nd. and 3rd, consider 4th and Quinn and even consider Howard which if he became in play would bring back a few of those picks. But and its JMO I'd be willing to make one more large sacrifice in this draft and get my guy and start fresh with no so called Tanking obstacles to deal with in the future. The Tanking or sacrifice is this years draft and willingly be ecstatic to lose the draft and get my QB.
Next years draft practically untouchable but not totally out of the picture.

Truthfully Murray or a less sacrificial Lock or Haskins is really the main interest that I have at paying any substantial attention to this coming year. Love to have that Diamond in the ruff and see and acquire in the future the added gems to put around it. Realizing that non of this is happen over night and the QB for me is the first step now that the new FO is in place.

dolphinheel said:

Just listened to Joe Shad on Sirius. He believes there's no chance we will move up, give up draft picks or draft a 1st round QB. Dolphins are focused on one of the 3 stud QBs in the 2020 draft. He said Dolphins priority is 1-pass rusher/DT, 2-oline. The plan is to build both lines this year and possibly draft a backup QB later in this draft. Pretty much what we all suspected.

Click to expand...

Interesting another one of a million opinions... but I wouldn't bet my life on it or pretty much anybodies opinion at this time. Key word "opinions". The "plan" is really the opinion of the plan,

Nobody knows whats really going on with the real strategy in the heads of our FO, and that at this time is a good thing...

RockyMtnPhinfan said:

I believe this is the strategy also. Points of interest outlined below
1. Fitzmagic is a smart guy and obviously understands his role - great locker room presence and exciting facial hair. He's a great choice for us because he won't be boring.
2. We are not tanking for anyone (Grier et.al did not work this hard to fail on purpose (ever) thats Mike Tannenbaum kind of stuff)
3. We will take a QB this year and the guy who passes the sniff test will be our object of affection in THIS draft.
4. I can't bellieve how clear this plan seems to many of us that are pragmatists but emotion drives many dolphins fans.
5. If this works Chris Grier will get GM of the year.
I agree with all the points lined out by the OP, thanks for the post!

Click to expand...

can not be stated enough

phins_4_ever said:

What draft we are considering for a QB depends on if the Dolphins have identified a QB this year they may want to pursue.
There is no FO in the NFL who simply says "oh we'll skip our search for a QB this year and focus on next year's draft". That type of thinking is boner thinking for fans who live in a fairy tale. What if Tua decides to stay another year in college? What if he gets hurt? Or any of the other prospects?

If I look at Fitzpatrick I see a bridge QB and possible mentor. If I see Fitzpatrick I see a style of QB which is more fitting for a Lock or Haskins to be mentored rather than a Murray. Plus some teams have soured on Murray because of reports that he has a poor work ethic and has a rough time identifying defensive schemes.

I do agree with you: the Dolphins focus on this year's draft and next year's draft is more of a fallback.

Click to expand...

May they continue to sour on him all the way to 13.

And Fitz is a perfect mentor for Murray. If in fact he has a rough time identifying defensive schemes, who better to mentor him than a QB who has seen so many of them?

I'd be excited with Haskins as well.

If the plan doesn't include trading up for Murray. There is no plan. Other than just being sorry ass team for the foreseeable future.

cuzinvinny said:

Why move up to make a pick ? Come on Danny your smarter than that ?
Maybe we've already gone beyond the point of return to were we are just accepting being losers.

Ya giving up the 2019 season enough to have a shot next year for another huge gamble makes more sense ? ... luckily I think the Organization is not on this page....thank god

It never worked for us is just such a poor reasoning, everything is totally different now. Drafts are always a crap shot to some degree and true it may not work, but IMO its not a difficult decision to realize its definitely worth the shot because if it works which is not as complicated to happening as expecting to be in the #1 position for the QB in the 2020 draft. The benefits can be so astronomical that its almost insanity to not do.. Something I could more easily accept from most all of our previous GM's and people that made the calls.

Click to expand...

Yup, I'm getting tired of this mindless 'we've done a bad job of drafting for 20 years.' As if the same personnel are running the show. That sounds about as logical as 'nah, I tried steak once in another steak house and it was tough.' There is no guarantee this FO will make perfect picks this year or next and no guarantee any human judgement will be right, but there is also no logic is comparing the '19 FO with the 2009 or 2013 FO. People tend to forget/ignore CLEV was 3-13 in '15 and 1-15 in '16 so 'tanking' wasn't that big a challenge. Going from 7 or 8 wins to 1 or 2 is more difficult not considering all the variables that have to fall into place.