Ryan Fitzpatrick To Miami | Page 47 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Ryan Fitzpatrick To Miami

FearTheBeard said:
I'm not saying he would can him, I'm saying they SHOULD can him. Good coaches don't win 2 games, I don't care what the roster construction is.
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Chuck Noll, 1969 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1-13
Bill Parcells, 1982 NY Giants, 3-12-1

Of course neither of those guys turned it around.
 
FearTheBeard said:
I'm not saying he would can him, I'm saying they SHOULD can him. Good coaches don't win 2 games, I don't care what the roster construction is.
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FearTheBeard said:
I'm not saying he would can him, I'm saying they SHOULD can him. Good coaches don't win 2 games, I don't care what the roster construction is.
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That’s ludicrous, Fear. Didn’t the great Jimmy Johnson go 1-15?

That’s the only example I have as I’m sure there are plenty more against that example.

Most want to tank but would deem the coach unworthy if it’s 2–14?

We can’t have it both ways.

“Every body wanna go heaven. No body want dead.”
 
Spiff said:
If the NFL really cared whether the product is fair or not, they’d have professional referees. They care about money, nothing else.

Having said that, not a chance the NFL interferes here. With NFL I mean the league office/administration. They couldn’t care less who we sign or put on the field. The reason we signed Fitzpatrick is that the coaching staff and the front office believe he gives us the best chance to win football games compared to who’s available and what they cost. That’s all.

If anybody cared whether we sell out the stadium or not it’s the other teams’ owners.
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And at the end of the day you are probably right here, But my point was more of a perception one than a reality one. You can still perceive to be competing but in reality you aren't. As I said before that's why I wouldn't be surprised is Goddell or one of his lackies has had a quiet word in Ross's ear to say "you have a duty to appear to at least appear to be trying" otherwise what are the NFL selling ?
 
Ryan1973 said:
Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 his first year in Dallas and won two Super Bowls with them after that. Bill Belichick had a bad record when he was the head coach of the Browns. Same with Pete Carroll when he was the head coach of the Jets and Patriots. Having talent is a big part of how a coach does.
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Disregarding the record but focusing on the point differential which I believe is a better measuring stick of how good a team really is than W/L record, Belichick never had a season with the Browns worse than -5 in point differential (until the last season when it was clear during the season that the franchise will move to Baltimore and will clean house), Carroll was -56 in his lone season with the Jets and positive in all 3 seasons with the Patriots. Compare that to Gase’s Dolphins who had a point differential of -17 in his first season (while going 10-6 which is pretty remarkable) followed by -112 and -114. So yeah, Belichick and Carroll were good coaches even before they won Super Bowls with their teams.

Johnson...well he probably had the greatest talent ever on the same team and quite frankly I don’t believe he was a very good coach but those times were different. Bad coaches lasted longer than they should have.
 
Spiff said:
Disregarding the record but focusing on the point differential which I believe is a better measuring stick of how good a team really is than W/L record, Belichick never had a season with the Browns worse than -5 in point differential (until the last season when it was clear during the season that the franchise will move to Baltimore and will clean house), Carroll was -56 in his lone season with the Jets and positive in all 3 seasons with the Patriots. Compare that to Gase’s Dolphins who had a point differential of -17 in his first season (while going 10-6 which is pretty remarkable) followed by -112 and -114. So yeah, Belichick and Carroll were good coaches even before they won Super Bowls with their teams.

Johnson...well he probably had the greatest talent ever on the same team and quite frankly I don’t believe he was a very good coach but those times were different. Bad coaches lasted longer than they should have.
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And who brought that talent to Dallas? It sure wasn't Jerry Jones. Also it was Bill Parcells who once said you are what your record says you are. Both Belichick and Carroll had lousy records with those teams. Bill Parcells went 3-12-1 his first season with the Giants and Bill Walsh went 2-14 his first year with the 49ers. My point is you can't judge how good a coach will be after one season regardless of their record at that point.
 
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rickd13 said:
What's ridiculous is fooling yourself into believing your are competing for anything meaningful with Fitzpatrick as the starter. What you guys don't seem to get is no one is asking the players not to compete. They will naturally compete and play hard. I just want a front office savvy enough and smart enough to put this organization in the best position to win and win big for a sustained number of years and in my opinion that means finding the best qb possible.
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We could of had any of the 6 best QB’s in the league right now and 1 of them twice. They need to identify the QB they want and if need be trade up for him. There will be no tank job this year or any year. If the GM and HC try to tank for a pick they will never see the pick. And they will be lucky to ever find a job as a GM or HC again.
 
Spiff said:
Disregarding the record but focusing on the point differential which I believe is a better measuring stick of how good a team really is than W/L record, Belichick never had a season with the Browns worse than -5 in point differential (until the last season when it was clear during the season that the franchise will move to Baltimore and will clean house), Carroll was -56 in his lone season with the Jets and positive in all 3 seasons with the Patriots. Compare that to Gase’s Dolphins who had a point differential of -17 in his first season (while going 10-6 which is pretty remarkable) followed by -112 and -114. So yeah, Belichick and Carroll were good coaches even before they won Super Bowls with their teams.

Johnson...well he probably had the greatest talent ever on the same team and quite frankly I don’t believe he was a very good coach but those times were different. Bad coaches lasted longer than they should have.
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Tell that to the U, brother. And before anyone can bring up the massive talent Johnson had at the U, all of those guys sing his praises. He let them be who they were. He didn't try to reign them in. He let his convicts roll. And wasn't he responsible for bringing all the talent to Dallas?

Interesting stats. Thanks. (Not being sarcastic btw)

If the season started today, you hold it against Flores if he went 2-14, with this roster?

This year is a pass across the board and rightfully so. We are in, not just a rebuild, a massive rebuild. 20 years of losing, dude- 20 years. You really want to judge them year 1 in the midst of this undertaking?

They might not even be able to acquire enough talent needed to implement their systems. We're no where near ready to deploy a 3-4. It may have to be a slow turnover after 2 drafts, not just 1. We'll have to be patient to see.

If you don't give these guys time, Spiff, you're in for major disappointment.

Give in to the process. What else would you prefer, pitchforks and torches after a mere year? Why do that yourself? Why do that to us?
 
Spiff said:
Disregarding the record but focusing on the point differential which I believe is a better measuring stick of how good a team really is than W/L record, Belichick never had a season with the Browns worse than -5 in point differential (until the last season when it was clear during the season that the franchise will move to Baltimore and will clean house), Carroll was -56 in his lone season with the Jets and positive in all 3 seasons with the Patriots. Compare that to Gase’s Dolphins who had a point differential of -17 in his first season (while going 10-6 which is pretty remarkable) followed by -112 and -114. So yeah, Belichick and Carroll were good coaches even before they won Super Bowls with their teams.

Johnson...well he probably had the greatest talent ever on the same team and quite frankly I don’t believe he was a very good coach but those times were different. Bad coaches lasted longer than they should have.
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I disagree about Belichick. He is not a good example to be using to provide support for your position. Under Belichick the Browns had a negative point differential in 4 out of his 5 seasons in Cleveland.

Then Belichick had a -62 point differential in his first year with Pats having Bledsoe at QB. Parcells and Carroll had put together 4 straight seasons of positive point differential with Bledsoe at QB before Belichick took over. The following season with Bledsoe at QB the Pats started the season 0-2 with a minus 13 point differential.

It's when Brady became starting QB in week 3 that the point differential became positive leading the Pats to a 44-13 win. It's amazing how much better of a coach Belechick is when Brady is QB than when he is not.

Before Brady, Belichick was 41-57 in wins/losses, -17 point differential, had a losing record in 5 out of 6 seasons and a negative point differential in 5 out of 6 seasons.
 
Where were the people that were trying to tell me that the Dolphins aren't intentionally tanking? :lmfao:
 
Ryan1973 said:
Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 his first year in Dallas and won two Super Bowls with them after that. Bill Belichick had a bad record when he was the head coach of the Browns. Same with Pete Carroll when he was the head coach of the Jets and Patriots. Having talent is a big part of how a coach does.
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Jimmy Johnson is the ONLY example in the last 30 years. If you have to dig that far into the past to find an example then I feel pretty good about my point. Bill never won fewer than 5 games with the Browns, and that was in his last season there. We're talking TWO games, let alone 5-6. Pete Carroll also a low of 6. Those are really bad examples. Our discussion is being bad enough to be in play for the #1 pick and Jimmy Johnson is the only outlier in regards to the point I'm arguing and in 1989.
 
Adam Strange said:
Chuck Noll, 1969 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1-13
Bill Parcells, 1982 NY Giants, 3-12-1

Of course neither of those guys turned it around.
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I don't really care what happened in 1969, but you can.

marino13zach54 said:
That’s ludicrous, Fear. Didn’t the great Jimmy Johnson go 1-15?

That’s the only example I have as I’m sure there are plenty more against that example.
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Actually there isn't.
 
FearTheBeard said:
Jimmy Johnson is the ONLY example in the last 30 years. If you have to dig that far into the past to find an example then I feel pretty good about my point. Bill never won fewer than 5 games with the Browns, and that was in his last season there. We're talking TWO games, let alone 5-6. Pete Carroll also a low of 6. Those are really bad examples. Our discussion is being bad enough to be in play for the #1 pick and Jimmy Johnson is the only outlier in regards to the point I'm arguing and in 1989.
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I get your point but I don't feel the need to throw a number on it. Like someone else said a good coach usually has a good point differential which is one thing Gase clearly lacked
 
nick1 said:
I get your point but I don't feel the need to throw a number on it. Like someone else said a good coach usually has a good point differential which is one thing Gase clearly lacked
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I'm not crazy opposed to what people are saying in here. I'm just of the belief that if we made the right hire we're not only going to win 2 games, which is what it will take to pick 1st. And Fitzpatrick, future owner of most games without a playoff appearance, isn't heavily launching us in one direction or another.
 
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