Why Would You "go Get" One Of These Guys?

EJay said:

Does not matter one bit. It’s always silly to me when fans try to use the past to predict the future. That may work when predicting human behavior, but it doesn’t work when evaluating players from the same schools/programs.

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I don't fall into that category…. if that is what you're implying....

It's not behavior that I'm interested in unless the behavior you are thinking of is their projected ability to play football at a high level... I call it ability and it's a crapshoot much of the time regardless of your pedigree.... I'm still not selling out just because I need a stud at QB.

Digital said:

How many awesome collegiate QB's that fizzled in the pros has Ohio State produced? Lots. I'm not a believer.

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I wish you wouldn’t have gone there. Anyone who post “Don’t draft position X from school Y” loses all credibility with me. Systems change, coaches change. Just a dumb, dumb argument. Don’t bother replying, just ignore me as can anyone else who subscribes to this nonsense.

Murray is an elite QB prospect, with experience being the most significant knock against him. I don't think Miami is in a position to trade up for him, though. They have too many needs to sacrifice significant draft capital, and Arizona probably drafts him anyway. Tua is the only QB in the 2020 class who profiles as having a realistic chance to be better. Herbert and Fromm are on a lower tier.

Haskins is good but limited and a poor fit for a team with as many needs as Miami. Lock needs to land in an offense that features the run and has him throw a high percentage of deep passes. This makes it hard to field a consistent offense. Teams should be looking to increase passing volume on base downs, rather than hiding their QB except for high-variance situations. This is to say that Lock is lacking in many necessary areas.

So, in 2019, Miami should build the OL and look for value/fit at WR and TE.

Birdmond said:

I wish you wouldn’t have gone there. Anyone who post “Don’t draft position X from school Y” loses all credibility with me. Systems change, coaches change. Just a dumb, dumb argument. Don’t bother replying, just ignore me as can anyone else who subscribes to this nonsense.

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Fair.

But I have zero faith in the Mizzou program. Just a personal cross border and Dolphin recent history bias.

At least with TAMU, it was just a opinion based on big game BIG 12 observations.

DolfanDuBbZ~ said:

Fair.

But I have zero faith in the Mizzou program. Just a personal cross border and Dolphin recent history bias.

At least with TAMU, it was just a opinion based on big game BIG 12 observations.

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What if Mizzou hired Lincoln Riley? Or their next hire was the next Sean McVay?

I remember last year some where saying no Mayfield because Oklahoma QB’s don’t make it in the NFL. Same guys now in love with Kyler Murray.

Birdmond said:

What if Mizzou hired Lincoln Riley? Or their next hire was the next Sean McVay?

I remember last year some where saying no Mayfield because Oklahoma QB’s don’t make it in the NFL. Same guys now in love with Kyler Murray.

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I had Mayfield as QB1, and he was very good as a rookie - particularly to close the year. Not sure what point you're trying to make there.

j-off-her-doll said:

I had Mayfield as QB1, and he was very good as a rookie - particularly to close the year. Not sure what point you're trying to make there.

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Read it again. it’s pretty simple and has nothing to do with you. But I’ll explain it again. Last year some posters on this board said do not draft Oklahoma QB’s. Nowhere was your name mentioned. Now some of those same guys are all over Kyler Mureay.

Birdmond said:

Read it again. it’s pretty simple and has nothing to do with you. But I’ll explain it again. Last year some posters on this board said do not draft Oklahoma QB’s. Nowhere was your name mentioned. Now some of those same guys are all over Kyler Mureay.

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Fair enough. I don't think there's anything wrong with adapting to new information, though. Mayfield's success is a plus for those who would otherwise knock Murray's prolific year because of Riley.

Birdmond said:

I wish you wouldn’t have gone there. Anyone who post “Don’t draft position X from school Y” loses all credibility with me. Systems change, coaches change. Just a dumb, dumb argument. Don’t bother replying, just ignore me as can anyone else who subscribes to this nonsense.

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Actually it isn't dumb at all. It factors in coaching staffs yes, but also leagues and styles. If you look at the history of Big 10 football over the last 10+ years, you'll see a huge dominance of talent by a handful of schools, with Ohio State producing one of the highest totals of NFL-talent in that time frame. They also have had a lot of successful collegiate QB's who failed to reach their potential in the NFL. Much like Alabama OL, despite always having a plethora of NFL prospects, very few at this position seem to succeed.

Leagues have characteristics, and the Big 10 has long been one of the best leagues for running games. That has meant that lots of defenses have been prepared to a large degree on stopping the run. Proving oneself as a passer against collegiate defenses built to stop the run is easier than proving oneself against defenses built to stop the pass. When you play for the team with the most NFL prospects in the league, it's easy to overstate statistics in that setting.

I'm surprised and disappointed that you do not value my point of view on this analysis, but I hope it is something we can get past.

Brees, Brady, Wilson, cousins...you’re right the big ten hasn’t produced **** for qb’s. Lol

Birdmond said:

I wish you wouldn’t have gone there. Anyone who post “Don’t draft position X from school Y” loses all credibility with me. Systems change, coaches change. Just a dumb, dumb argument. Don’t bother replying, just ignore me as can anyone else who subscribes to this nonsense.

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Yeah Haskins is exactly the opposite of all those failed QB’s. Almost al of those guys turned into WR’s in the nfl. Haskins is a legit pocket passer. Not an athletic run first guy with bad accuracy like Braxton Miller, Pryor and Barrett.

j-off-her-doll said:

Haskins is good but limited and a poor fit for a team with as many needs as Miami. Lock needs to land in an offense that features the run and has him throw a high percentage of deep passes. .

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Haskins is a fit anywhere.

Lock is a fit anywhere play wise, but should first of all sit out a year. He went through three coaching staffs at Mizzou so he hasn't had a chance to develop offensive consistency in reading defenses for a system. More importantly, he wants to play his game, throw off back foot, from weird angles, and wants to have fun, he wants to fk around. His best fit is an offensive head coach like Andy Reid, with tons of experience coaching all kinds of knuckleheads and loving it. Maybe Gruden, maybe Arians. Someone like that, a coach with tons of experience and who also likes to fk around, has great appreciation for fkn around and knucklehead quarterbacks.

LargoFin said:

Haskins is a fit anywhere.

Lock is a fit anywhere play wise, but should first of all sit out a year. He went through three coaching staffs at Mizzou so he hasn't had a chance to develop offensive consistency in reading defenses for a system. More importantly, he wants to play his game, throw off back foot, from weird angles, and wants to have fun, he wants to fk around. His best fit is an offensive head coach like Andy Reid, with tons of experience coaching all kinds of knuckleheads and loving it. Maybe Gruden, maybe Arians. Someone like that, a coach with tons of experience and who also likes to fk around, has great appreciation for fkn around and knucklehead quarterbacks.

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I'm not going to say Lock has no chance, and his character gives him a better shot, but by almost any measure, outside of deep passing, he has a shaky profile. His game is very shaky. Poor feet are a significant red flag - writing it off as "having fun" would be unwise. Andy Reid would increase the chance for success of any QB, so that would also apply to Lock. Lock's inability to process info quickly is his other major red flag, and I think it's the root of his poor short and medium accuracy - his feet, as well. They're tied to that processing, though. The NFL largely fails to develop QB's who struggle in these areas.

j-off-her-doll said:

I'm not going to say Lock has no chance, and his character gives him a better shot, but by almost any measure, outside of deep passing, he has a shaky profile. His game is very shaky. Poor feet are a significant red flag - writing it off as "having fun" would be unwise. Andy Reid would increase the chance for success of any QB, so that would also apply to Lock. Lock's inability to process info quickly is his other major red flag, and I think it's the root of his poor short and medium accuracy - his feet, as well. They're tied to that processing, though. The NFL largely fails to develop QB's who struggle in these areas.

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Agree. Flores wants a mentally quick and agile QB. Yet, many posts here ignore that. It's 'prototypical size,' 'completion %,' or other factors. Not saying those don't matter, but the guy Miami picks WILL convince Flores he has that mental aptitude. It shouldn't be ignored

No man. First a QB has to have a gun. Will Grier does not have a gun. Lock has a gun. It's not close between the two. Production in college is very important, but gun comes first.

Will Grier is in a class of small framed small armed QBs who are not very athletic. We do not won't that if it's free. We want big arm, big frame, athletic QB. And then comes the production.

My favorite quarterback prospect for the Dolphins other than Haskins and Lock, is Manny Wilkins. That dude has a gun, and has athleticism, and his production was solid. He also needs to sit out a year. He is my #4 quarterback this year. If the Dolphins do not take a QB in the 1st round, that's the guy they should target. Not Will Grier. (I scratched out Finley, he is undraftable.)