Slimm's 2020 Quarterbacks (underclassman) | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Slimm's 2020 Quarterbacks (underclassman)

Yes I have. That's why I'm a bit confused to see velocity described as a problem.

He...is a FLAME THROWER.

What you're describing is a problem of experience and feel. It's a sign of maturity that he understands what throws need arc and what throws need heat. But he's still working on his change-up. You can see it. His change-up looks like a promising, but half-finished product.

His fast ball is one of the best out there. Period. Full stop. There's a reason I keep comparing him to Patrick Mahomes.

Mahomes by the way if you really tracked him in college this way did NOT burn up the atmosphere with his fast ball all the time. He played in the type of offense where you typically see passers sort of throwing at a comfortable 90% of what they're capable of, even when they're dialing it up. The way you could detect how special Mahomes's arm was, was by paying attention to what he was capable of while on the move. And he was CONSTANTLY on the move. That man hardly ever just set up and delivered, the way you think about it in a classical sense.

If you are one of those who likes Clayton Thorson, I think that's something he had in common with Patrick Mahomes. Not the arm talent, because he doesn't have that level of arm talent. But the way he was constantly throwing on the move, inside the pocket, outside the pocket, etc. He had some really, really sh-tty blocking. Just like Patrick Mahomes.

The difference being that whereas Patrick Mahomes actually converted a full 60% of his 3rd & <10 plays, which is an almost unheard of number for a full season's worth of work, especially a Texas Tech season which is like 1.5 seasons to most other passers, Clayton Thorson only converted about about 44% of those.

That's just one little statistic, but it's one that I like, because whatever you think of the way the passing game has evolved over the last 20-30 years, third down is still third down, and it has been almost wholly resistant to the secular trend of increasing passing potency/efficiency.

The point is simple, that where Mahomes generally (with the exception of one game against Iowa State) turned chicken sh-t into chicken salad at Texas Tech, Clayton Thorson turned chicken sh-t into chicken sh-t at Northwestern.

But we were talking about Jordan Love. My bad.

Watch the San Jose State game if you want to see finger-breaking passes. There was one that should have been an interception and you could tell that there was absolutely no way the defensive back was going to catch the ball, because it was just that hot.

I see the same thing you guys are referencing on his touch throws underneath or to the flat. I understand that he's not trying to Tyree or Drew Lock fastball an easy throw, but they take a while to get out there.

I only did a 2 game peak. I'm only doing 2, maybe 3 games on guys over summer. I just want to get a feel. I just watched San Jose State. He spins it pretty damn good on drive throws. AND he was asked to make a lot more of them than the 2 games I watched, Michigan State and BYU.

I know I said I doubt it changes much. Quite honestly, the way he was throwing the ball to the flat, I didn't think Love had that in him, and I referenced that as the reason why he was low on the list. I feel comfortable putting him slightly above Fromm.

The touch throws are just really weird to me. Idk. I haven't seen this before. Interested in both of your opinions on the subject.


Also, what do you guys think is or are the big reasons for Herbert being so inconsistent?
 
Last edited:
With Herbert I just think his delivery is a little elongated and his footwork gets off.

Honestly, I think Herbert and Steven Montez are essentially the same caliber of prospect. But Montez's stroke is so much cleaner and quicker. He gets his hips and core more involved in the throw. That ball can come out in a hurry with Montez. He's also a little quicker and more elusive in the pocket than Herbert. His feet and side to side agility are quicker, despite having such terrific size.

The problem with Montez are the meltdown performances he has in big games. He starts turning the football over and it just snowballs from there. He struggles to get it back on track. If Montez could just stop with the occasional meltdown performance - I believe he and Herbert have very similar potential in the NFL.
 
Here's that San Jose State game. Not hard to see the flames coming off those finger tips in this game, at 60 frames per second.



At 0:47 is the play where the DB can't intercept the football because it was just too hot for him. That ball is on fire for an 80 foot throw. The DB was akin to a batter trying to hit a fastball and fouling out.
 
Here's that San Jose State game. Not hard to see the flames coming off those finger tips in this game, at 60 frames per second.



At 0:47 is the play where the DB can't intercept the football because it was just too hot for him. That ball is on fire for an 80 foot throw. The DB was akin to a batter trying to hit a fastball and fouling out.



That's a pick in the SEC.

In all seriousness, the receiver has to turn that into a skinny post against that inverted coverage after his safety rotated down. You can't run it right at the only guy sitting there in the MOF. He got too flat there on his post route. Lucky that ball wasn't intercepted.
 
That's a pick in the SEC.

In all seriousness, the receiver has to turn that into a skinny post against that inverted coverage after his safety rotated down. You can't run it right at the only guy sitting there in the MOF. He got too flat there on his post route. Lucky that ball wasn't intercepted.

If there's one thing that gives me hope about the 2019 season for Jordan Love, given that he's lost his run game coordinator/head coach, his pass game coordinator/QB coach, his top three wide receivers, his top tight end, his dominant runner, and four of his five offensive linemen...

...it's that I saw his receivers screw up so much in 2018 that I wonder if he can't do better with a new hand.
 
There are definitely some consistency issues with Justin Herbert, but his high end throws will match any top flight quarterback prospect's high end throws. There are flashes of elite anticipation in his game. He needed to come back for his senior season to see if he can iron out the consistency. IMO, he's still a better prospect than any that was in the 2019 draft.
 
There are definitely some consistency issues with Justin Herbert, but his high end throws will match any top flight quarterback prospect's high end throws. There are flashes of elite anticipation in his game. He needed to come back for his senior season to see if he can iron out the consistency. IMO, he's still a better prospect than any that was in the 2019 draft.

I don't rate him above Murray, but im with you in the fact that I love Herbert as well. Much more then most it seems. That boy has Muhammad Ali lightness in his feet, and I disagree with the idea his throwing motion is long. He is far from the Brock O's of the world where they become pie throwers and cant spin it and hes even further from the Tim Tebow longness. Herbert's arm action is not like that, its tight and compact and very efficient, which is where his cannon comes from. Ive seen him get out of that when working around pressure, but that is pretty standard.

30j851.gif
 
I love Herberts Talents, the one thing I’m trying to figure out is how he sees the field from the pocket, is it in HD or is it compartmentalized..

Gotta year to find out, but man, arm strength and innate accuracy ,is hi level stuff, his movement relative to his size and length is decent..

Wanna see that situational and pocket awareness on pressure downs for another year and continue to see what he does when that protection breaks down to covert..

Also, very important for me, is how he uses his legs, does he establish them in the context of the scheme and game to threaten a defense when they forget and turn their backs to him..

If I can see that trait with his other goods, man would that get me excited ..
 
Slimm, whats that Bama defense gonna be like this year? Asking in this thread because I want to know if Tua is gonna have to carry a majority of the load this year. I know the defense isnt gonna be terrible but could it have holes? Some shoddy defensive back play showed up last year. Not accustomed to seeing that from Bama.
 
Slimm, whats that Bama defense gonna be like this year? Asking in this thread because I want to know if Tua is gonna have to carry a majority of the load this year. I know the defense isnt gonna be terrible but could it have holes? Some shoddy defensive back play showed up last year. Not accustomed to seeing that from Bama.


Well, last year's defense was the worst since Saban has been here - the issues were evident from the first game against Louisville and never got corrected throughout the season. Paid for it in a big way against Clemson. But they just as easily could've paid the same price against Georgia in the SEC Title Game, or against Arkansas who put up 31 points, or Oklahoma and Kyler Murray, or against Auburn where some big plays happened but Bama was fortunate to have them called back due to a holding penalty (Shaun Shivers TD run called back), etc.

The problem has been staff turnover. Bama faces more staff turnover than any team in the country in terms of assistant coaches and coordinators going on to take head coaching jobs or coordinator jobs. Saban hired a bunch of coaches who could really do a good job on the recruiting trail and were great recruiters, but couldn't match up when it was game time. All those coaches are gone now. I said they would be after the Clemson game. You just can't get beat like that. Not in Tuscaloosa. It won't fly.

He made a few phone calls and got Tosh Lupoi a job with the Cleveland Browns instead of firing him. I think Saban felt some of the responsibility for Lupoi's failures as DC. He just wasn't ready yet. Saban manned up and took this one on the chin because it was the right thing to do.

He's replaced all those guys with some familiar faces to the staff - coaches that have coached for Saban before and know what he expects. Coaches that know how to coach the techniques Saban wants and develop players, not just recruit. Coaches that were here in the beginning that helped lay the foundation for all the success Bama has had. Sal Sunseri is back now coaching OLB's.

Got rid of DL coach Kuligowski and replaced him with who is in my opinion, the best DL coach in the country from Mississippi St. - Brian Baker. He's coached and developed Montez Sweat, Jeffrey Simmons, etc. He's coached 8 pro bowlers in the NFL from DeMarcus Ware to Julius Peppers to Ryan Kerrigan.

Basically, I think you can look for Bama to get back to the business of being Bama. The DB play last year inparticular was atrocious in 2 spots. Deonte Thompson and Savion Smith. Even The Citadel who runs a triple option were targeting Savion Smith as the weakest link on the defense. He had no shot against Georgia or Clemson. Those two knuckleheads combined for letting up more TD passes and big plays than anybody that's played in the past 10 Bama defenses combined.

I've said it many times, but it was absolutely inexcusable to have players like that starting at Alabama. They had true freshman Josh Jobe ready to play who was better anyway.

The defense won't have the holes it had last year. Even with the holes it had last year, it was still a top 15 or so defense in the country. It takes a team like Clemson to exploit those weakness bad enough that Bama couldn't catch up. With the talent, depth, and coaching back in order, I suspect they'll have a good shot at getting back to the defense we're accustomed to seeing.
 
Well, last year's defense was the worst since Saban has been here - the issues were evident from the first game against Louisville and never got corrected throughout the season. Paid for it in a big way against Clemson. But they just as easily could've paid the same price against Georgia in the SEC Title Game, or against Arkansas who put up 31 points, or Oklahoma and Kyler Murray, or against Auburn where some big plays happened but Bama was fortunate to have them called back due to a holding penalty (Shaun Shivers TD run called back), etc.

The problem has been staff turnover. Bama faces more staff turnover than any team in the country in terms of assistant coaches and coordinators going on to take head coaching jobs or coordinator jobs. Saban hired a bunch of coaches who could really do a good job on the recruiting trail and were great recruiters, but couldn't match up when it was game time. All those coaches are gone now. I said they would be after the Clemson game. You just can't get beat like that. Not in Tuscaloosa. It won't fly.

He made a few phone calls and got Tosh Lupoi a job with the Cleveland Browns instead of firing him. I think Saban felt some of the responsibility for Lupoi's failures as DC. He just wasn't ready yet. Saban manned up and took this one on the chin because it was the right thing to do.

He's replaced all those guys with some familiar faces to the staff - coaches that have coached for Saban before and know what he expects. Coaches that know how to coach the techniques Saban wants and develop players, not just recruit. Coaches that were here in the beginning that helped lay the foundation for all the success Bama has had. Sal Sunseri is back now coaching OLB's.

Got rid of DL coach Kuligowski and replaced him with who is in my opinion, the best DL coach in the country from Mississippi St. - Brian Baker. He's coached and developed Montez Sweat, Jeffrey Simmons, etc. He's coached 8 pro bowlers in the NFL from DeMarcus Ware to Julius Peppers to Ryan Kerrigan.

Basically, I think you can look for Bama to get back to the business of being Bama. The DB play last year inparticular was atrocious in 2 spots. Deonte Thompson and Savion Smith. Even The Citadel who runs a triple option were targeting Savion Smith as the weakest link on the defense. He had no shot against Georgia or Clemson. Those two knuckleheads combined for letting up more TD passes and big plays than anybody that's played in the past 10 Bama defenses combined.

I've said it many times, but it was absolutely inexcusable to have players like that starting at Alabama. They had true freshman Josh Jobe ready to play who was better anyway.

The defense won't have the holes it had last year. Even with the holes it had last year, it was still a top 15 or so defense in the country. It takes a team like Clemson to exploit those weakness bad enough that Bama couldn't catch up. With the talent, depth, and coaching back in order, I suspect they'll have a good shot at getting back to the defense we're accustomed to seeing.

Perfect. I really appreciate the time spent on this. Good analysis.
 
Slimm, I almost bought the house that Brian Baker was renting in Starkville when we were looking to relocate to that area. We rented temporarily, but since my house in Tupelo did not sell, we ended up moving back into it.
 
Well, last year's defense was the worst since Saban has been here

Not to get too far off topic, but curious how would you rate the 2014 defense that got torched by Zeke Elliott and Cardale Jones compared to the 2018 defense? Not far above? Close??
 
Not to get too far off topic, but curious how would you rate the 2014 defense that got torched by Zeke Elliott and Cardale Jones compared to the 2018 defense? Not far above? Close??


About the same
 
Back
Top Bottom