Rosen’s Slow Start | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Rosen’s Slow Start

Kamelion4291 said:
You're right. You didn't say it. You implied it. My bad.

You're discussing Rosen. I talk about what Rosen has been up to this point. You come back with "omg players can get better!" Thanks, I didn't know that, but to use it in your argument for Rosen is you sitting there sipping on your glass half full drink with rose colored glasses on.

Everyone in the entire NFL "could" get better, but that's a pointless thing to bring up if you're really trying to have an unbiased Rosen discussion.
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I did not imply it. Again, you're putting words in people's mouths to stir **** up.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
You're right. You didn't say it. You implied it. My bad.

You're discussing Rosen. I talk about what Rosen has been up to this point. You come back with "omg players can get better!" Thanks, I didn't know that, but to use it in your argument for Rosen is you sitting there sipping on your glass half full drink with rose colored glasses on.

Everyone in the entire NFL "could" get better, but that's a pointless thing to bring up if you're really trying to have an unbiased Rosen discussion.
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I'll start this off by saying that I am 95% sure that the Dolphins will be drafting a QB in round 1.

With that said, Rosen made many mistakes and did many thing last season that just don't show up in his college game. One of the biggest issue the Cardinals had was giving a rookie, a player you are looking to hopefully develop into the face of your franchise, a QB coach, who eventually became the OC, who has never coached before...at any level. That level of incompetence from an organizational standpoint can only be rivaled by what the Browns have done in the past. You add in an offensive line that would make the Dolphins o-line look like borderline pro-bowlers and you have a QB that is broken. IF, and by golly, this is a huge if, they can rebuild Rosen, you will get some quality play, because he has had quality play in the past (hell, even his first start in the NFL was solid). I think we will get a chance to see Rosen start at some point in the season, but it is massive undertaking by the OC and QB coach to get him to that point.
 
Ferretsquig said:
Noone should be making a determination based on what happens on the practice field. A quarterback is ultimately judged by what he can do when the script fails him. There is a long list of QBs that looked great when they were wearing that red jersey and could never put it together on gameday.

I watched Tannehill in one practice his rookie year and the man was awesome. He looked the part, could put the ball wherever he wanted to and was running with defensive backs. How was anyone supposed to know from looking at him in that setting that he had no pocket presence and couldn't sense the rush?

The coaches certainly know more than the average fan but they don't have a clue what's going to happen. They need to see how he reacts when put under pressure and there's no way to duplicate that on a practice field.
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Certainly there are practice all stars who suck when the chips are on the table. But if a guy sucks in practice, he is going to suck in games.
 
Mcganiel said:
A top prospect that played behind the worst oline in the nfl last year and you guys are writing him off at the age of 22 without even taking one snap in a preseason game. This forum has gone to crap.
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Really it's only 3 or 4 ...it seems anyways
 
Spiff said:
You think the coaches and players care about the fan base? They care about their pay checks because wins equal higher pay checks. And they don’t care about pay checks in 3 or 4 years, they care about next week’s pay check. That’s why they want to play the guy who is better RIGHT NOW. If that’s Fitzpatrick, they play Fitzpatrick.
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While that makes sense on one end, it's nonsensical at the other and there really isn't much middle ground as far as I can see.

Flores has his 5 year contract.

This offseason was handled delicately seemingly- lest be I a total nut job- so as to up the odds of securing future success; cutting fat, amassing cap space, stocking picks.

What move this offseason screams at you they are playing for RIGHT NOW? If the answer is Fitz, boy are we still in trouble. "Hey guys, we need to win now. Go get me Ryan Fitzpatrick."

Fitz holds the reigns for a year as we prepare to sell the farm in '20 for one of the top QBs. Okay. But then we went ahead and invested capital for the future at the QB position this year. So now we are in a Rosen state of "will he, won't he? Is he, isn't he?" And now we are debating whether we should acutely evaluate if he will and if he is. That doesn't make much sense.

It could very well be another breakdown in communication between the front office and the coaching staff because if I come to you as a GM and tell you coach I'm trading for this young guy that could be a steal and you tell me well I have to let the best man in training camp start, I instantly sweat bombs thinking on all the ways this can go south.

The way Im being hopeful in looking at the situation is that regardless of what happens this season, barring if/when Rosen plays does so at a pro bowl level, is that they are keeping the intention of moving on up for a QB next year regardless of anything that occurs this season (again, barring Rosen playing lights out). I'm beyond comfortable having the depth of 2 young blue chip prospects at QB. It would be about gosh darn time.

So I'm okay with Rosen not even sniffing a start IF the plan is to still go balls out for a QB in the '20 draft.

If it's a "let's see" situation then for the sake of everything that is holy, start the kid and let's freakin see.

For any fan that wants to see what we have in Rosen... well let me just speak for myself- for me, if Fitz gets the start, my hand is being forced to not wish Fitz any success because... I mean... whats not clear about we have to see Rosen? And seeing as I could never cheer againts my team, Im left in limbo. The same kind of limbo the Miami Dolphins always seem to be in. We could start a Netflix gem also and call it Stranger Phins as no matter how much it seems that we are turning a page we are always caught in some sort of the Upside Down.

Youthful promise starts with a veteran sage ready to take over. Why isn't that so simple? Because we are the Miami Dolphins.
 
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Kamelion4291 said:
Huh? This entire discussion has been about Rosen only. Why are you bringing up everything else on the entire team?
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I would assume it was because you did a few post earlier. But that’s just my guess.
 
Mcganiel said:
A top prospect that played behind the worst oline in the nfl last year and you guys are writing him off at the age of 22 without even taking one snap in a preseason game. This forum has gone to crap.
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I'm sorry, but since we're sweeping everything under the rug here from his time in Arizona, would you like to tell me when he's actually done his winning since there's gotta be some beacon of hope outside of his draft position?

He went 8-5 as a freshman at UCLA
3-3 as a Sophomore
6-5 as a Junior
3-10 at Arizona
And he's currently getting beat out by a guy who should be an NFL backup.

Newsflash, we might have the worst offensive line in the NFL THIS year so I already know the myriad of excuses that are going to be thrown Rosen's way after he looks like garbage yet again.

This is exactly the same merry-go-round we had with Tannehill. "OMG, our offensive line is so bad! If only Tannehill had some guys who could block for a quarterback with zero pocket presence!" Guess what? Rosen is better than Tannehill in regards to pocket presence, but he throws late all the time. He takes too long to go through his progressions which is why he took a ton of sacks last year, why he took a ton of sacks and had multiple concussions at UCLA, and why he is going to take a ton of sacks this year too.

Isn't it a quarterback's job to lift up his teammates and play well in spite of what's around him if he's actually good? If a QB requires everything around him to function at a high level for him to just function, he isn't good. That's been the case since the beginning of this league.

It's not about writing him off. It's about having someone earn the benefit of the doubt rather than just giving it to him for free because it makes you feel better knowing there could be hope.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
I'm sorry, but since we're sweeping everything under the rug here from his time in Arizona, would you like to tell me when he's actually done his winning since there's gotta be some beacon of hope outside of his draft position?

He went 8-5 as a freshman at UCLA
3-3 as a Sophomore
6-5 as a Junior
3-10 at Arizona
And he's currently getting beat out by a guy who should be an NFL backup.

Newsflash, we might have the worst offensive line in the NFL THIS year so I already know the myriad of excuses that are going to be thrown Rosen's way after he looks like garbage yet again.

This is exactly the same merry-go-round we had with Tannehill. "OMG, our offensive line is so bad! If only Tannehill had some guys who could block for a quarterback with zero pocket presence!" Guess what? Rosen is better than Tannehill in regards to pocket presence, but he throws late all the time. He takes too long to go through his progressions which is why he took a ton of sacks last year, why he took a ton of sacks and had multiple concussions at UCLA, and why he is going to take a ton of sacks this year too.

Isn't it a quarterback's job to lift up his teammates and play well in spite of what's around him if he's actually good? If a QB requires everything around him to function at a high level for him to just function, he isn't good. That's been the case since the beginning of this league.

It's not about writing him off. It's about having someone earn the benefit of the doubt rather than just giving it to him for free because it makes you feel better knowing there could be hope.
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So the short of it is, you think he's a bust and won't stop til everyone else stops being optimistic?
 
Kamelion4291 said:
I'm sorry, but since we're sweeping everything under the rug here from his time in Arizona, would you like to tell me when he's actually done his winning since there's gotta be some beacon of hope outside of his draft position?

He went 8-5 as a freshman at UCLA
3-3 as a Sophomore
6-5 as a Junior
3-10 at Arizona
And he's currently getting beat out by a guy who should be an NFL backup.

Newsflash, we might have the worst offensive line in the NFL THIS year so I already know the myriad of excuses that are going to be thrown Rosen's way after he looks like garbage yet again.

This is exactly the same merry-go-round we had with Tannehill. "OMG, our offensive line is so bad! If only Tannehill had some guys who could block for a quarterback with zero pocket presence!" Guess what? Rosen is better than Tannehill in regards to pocket presence, but he throws late all the time. He takes too long to go through his progressions which is why he took a ton of sacks last year, why he took a ton of sacks and had multiple concussions at UCLA, and why he is going to take a ton of sacks this year too.

Isn't it a quarterback's job to lift up his teammates and play well in spite of what's around him if he's actually good? If a QB requires everything around him to function at a high level for him to just function, he isn't good. That's been the case since the beginning of this league.

It's not about writing him off. It's about having someone earn the benefit of the doubt rather than just giving it to him for free because it makes you feel better knowing there could be hope.
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Thats what gets lost. He is a very talented individual but hes underachieved since high school. Not just last year. Its a trend. Its unlikely he breaks it on a bottom tier team in the NFL with a first time OC. The front office didnt help him in any way. Looking like we are gonna roll with rookies at the guard spots. They are eyeing a QB in 2020 if you ask me.
 
People need to drop this whole schtick of when someone lays out an argument detailing why they think the way they do, they must be attempting to oppress people of a different opinion.

No, people who dislike Rosen are not attempting to stamp out anyone else's optimism. And no, people who like Rosen should not be talking anyone else down.
 
Jesus what a shitshow of a thread. What's the over/under on when people are going to stop talking about Ryan Tannehill?
 
Do you know how Rosen performed in his rookie training camp?... was he just thrown in because of his draft status or did he earn the job? Just curious
 
ckparrothead said:
People need to drop this whole schtick of when someone lays out an argument detailing why they think the way they do, they must be attempting to oppress people of a different opinion.

No, people who dislike Rosen are not attempting to stamp out anyone else's optimism. And no, people who like Rosen should not be talking anyone else down.
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Do you know how Rosen did in his rookie training camp? … did he win the job or was he just expected to be the guy from day 1?.. just curious
 
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