Miami Dolphins Hope Rookies Michael Deiter And Shaq Calhoun Are The Answer To Their Ol Troubles | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Miami Dolphins Hope Rookies Michael Deiter And Shaq Calhoun Are The Answer To Their Ol Troubles

I know we’re still on the part of the calendar where optimism is overflowing, but it would be great if in the same offseason we found our QB of the future as well as 2 starting guards who are both competent and capable of playing at this level who have a long future in the NFL. Hell, if we’re grading on a curve hitting on 2 out of those 3 would be a success.
 
:chuckle: Cogs really got a raw deal after he harassed Martin. If you have ever been a lockerroom you know that goes on all the time. If Martin couldn't take the verbal jabs in the clubhouse, he definitely didn't belong in the league.
As far as Matrin goes, I agree. If you can't take it, and use it to motivate, you probably don't belong.

As for RC, his actions since leaving have confirmed that he is a borderline phyco, that no team is going to put up with for long.
 
:chuckle: Cogs really got a raw deal after he harassed Martin. If you have ever been a lockerroom you know that goes on all the time. If Martin couldn't take the verbal jabs in the clubhouse, he definitely didn't belong in the league.

Yeeeeeah, I genuinely think the Fins were dealing with two complete sociopaths there. I lost any confidence in Incognito's sanity when he trashed his own Ferrari with a baseball bat...and he only got worse from there.
 
:chuckle: Cogs really got a raw deal after he harassed Martin. If you have ever been a lockerroom you know that goes on all the time. If Martin couldn't take the verbal jabs in the clubhouse, he definitely didn't belong in the league.
That whole thing was a bunch of PC bull$..t
 
It's certainly promising to have a 3rd rounder and an undrafted guy get looks as starters. These are not the only guys to show up and this is making the scouting department look like they might know what they are doing.....but it's still early. UDFA and low-key acquisitions have looked like a better than the average class.

Preston Williams
Deion Calhoune
Jonathan Ledbetter
Tank Carradine
DeWayne Hendrix
Sam Eguavoen
Nik Needham
Andrew Van Ginkel
Terrill Hanks

Either these are really good acquisitions or the rest of the team is just not very good. We will find out very soon.
 
Bad things are gonna happen when you have two guys in the same position group with MAJOR mental illness. Let's not forget it's 5 years removed from the Martin issue and Incognito is once again facing a two-game suspension to start the season. That's not to say either are terrible people but mental illness is a scary issue for a lot of people.
 
It's certainly promising to have a 3rd rounder and an undrafted guy get looks as starters. These are not the only guys to show up and this is making the scouting department look like they might know what they are doing.....but it's still early. UDFA and low-key acquisitions have looked like a better than the average class.

Preston Williams
Deion Calhoune
Jonathan Ledbetter
Tank Carradine
DeWayne Hendrix
Sam Eguavoen
Nik Needham
Andrew Van Ginkel
Terrill Hanks

Either these are really good acquisitions or the rest of the team is just not very good. We will find out very soon.

Little from column a little from column b. You will always see players skip through the cracks but the system Flores is bringing is all about knowing your roles (both offensively and defensively) and is more about intelligent play than anything else. That's why I've said consistently that for defensive players forget everything you've become accustomed to looking for in a defensive player. I also wouldn't be shocked if you saw lesser known guys become more valuable than some established guys based on what is asked
 
:chuckle: Cogs really got a raw deal after he harassed Martin. If you have ever been a lockerroom you know that goes on all the time. If Martin couldn't take the verbal jabs in the clubhouse, he definitely didn't belong in the league.
What Cogs did was wrong but did Cogs know Martin had mental health issues and Cogs just tripped him and triggered him - Yes locker rooms have a certain “sacredness” but Cogs went way the bleep over that line

Of course attempting to get Martin to behave like one of the boys actually went polarizing

You can lead a horse to water Cogs but you can’t make them drink - hopefully lesson learned by the team
 
Screams patriot like o line handling. A udfa and a mid round pick. A udfa right tackle and a jag 30 plus pivot

This stuff usually gets separated by coaching

I would say these players are less athletic and less versatile than New England standards. Deiter is not a poor athlete but he's weaker than typical for a third round pick. Certainly less athletic than the Patriots guards Mason and Thuney.

Calhoun actually tested better than I expected. He looks like a box brawler type most of the time. In the rare occasions he got out in space at Mississippi State he was more agile than I realized. But I was still surprised at some of the test scores.

The Dolphins in recent years have relied too much on subjective scouting and consequently have fallen behind the league as a whole in terms of athletic ability. It stands out no matter which evaluation I've looked at. Along with persistence with Tannehill, there was no reason to have high expectations when so many poor foundational decisions were being made. This was the first year in which the draft contained good athletes pretty much across the board. Even guys who look stiff like Prince had competent numbers for their position.

Ironically, if we had drafted Preston Williams instead of picking him up as free agent, then our average RAS number would have plummeted. That strangely awful combine day equated to a dreadful 2.76 RAS score for Williams.

I have no idea how anyone can be surprised that a troubled wide receiver with a 2.76 RAS went undrafted. However, he was an elite 5 star prized recruit so there was concealed talent. We'll see if he's sudden enough and plucky enough. Those are always the variables with bigger receivers.

Here are some links regarding RAS (Relative Athletic Score) and the Dolphins. You'll note how far we have lagged the league. The first one is average RAS on the starting offensive line from 2016. We were 4th from bottom. The second link looks at the 2017 draft in terms of RAS, with a notation regarding the 2016 draft. Miami was #31 among 32 in average RAS from the 2017 draft. In 2016 we were 25th.

The third link is an overall evaluation of athletic ability in regard to draft position. It is clear cut that the superior athletes are drafted early and then there is a tiered steady decline until the 5th round. However, it levels out in the 5th through 7th round. Perhaps that is why the Dolphins have had comparative success in those late rounds beginning with the 5th. The Dolphins ignore or improperly evaluate athletic ability early. Dion Jordan scored well overall but flunked the key metric tests for his position, the ones spotlighted by other models like Waldo and SackSeer. Charles Harris was a flat out athletic reject. But once not as many top athletes are available and it becomes more of a grab bag situation, the Dolphins fare well:

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/5/10/11634906/athleticism-and-offensive-line-success

https://relativeathleticscores.com/...17-draft-class-using-ras-all-32-teams-ranked/

https://relativeathleticscores.com/2017/04/23/does-general-athleticism-lead-to-high-draft-selection/

I'll throw in a 4th and 5th link...the 2019 draft class in total. Note than Michael Deiter was 5.64. That's not awful but consider the 9.84 for Joe Thuney and 9.17 for Shaq Mason.

The final link is a clickable RAS list of every draft dating to 1987:

https://relativeathleticscores.com/2019/03/15/2019-draft-class-ras-relative-athletic-scores/

https://relativeathleticscores.com/ras-by-draft-class/

BTW, there are outliers when weaker athletes over perform and superior athletes flop. We realize that. This is a tool. More often than not. When you are scrambling for outliers you are boosting the other guy's argument, not your own.
 
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If you haven't seen the Michael Deiter pre-Draft interview (see link below), you should check it out. He gets sucked into introducing himself with a really terrible attempt at a German accent and then is completely embarrassed. It's natural and absolutely hilarious. I have seen it many times and always get a big laugh from it.
Michael Deiter is a bright guy and has a good dry sense of humor. As more of his personality is progressively exposed via the media, Dolphin fans will warm to him. Let's hope that his football progressively improves to the point where he is a valuable cog in the O-line.

https://www.btn2go.com/video/champi...r--wisconsin----big-ten-football--sports-lite
That was hilarious.
 
I would say these players are less athletic and less versatile than New England standards. Deiter is not a poor athlete but he's weaker than typical for a third round pick. Certainly less athletic than the Patriots guards Mason and Thuney.

Calhoun actually tested better than I expected. He looks like a box brawler type most of the time. In the rare occasions he got out in space at Mississippi State he was more agile than I realized. But I was still surprised at some of the test scores.

The Dolphins in recent years have relied too much on subjective scouting and consequently have fallen behind the league as a whole in terms of athletic ability. It stands out no matter which evaluation I've looked at. Along with persistence with Tannehill, there was no reason to have high expectations when so many poor foundational decisions were being made. This was the first year in which the draft contained good athletes pretty much across the board. Even guys who look stiff like Prince had competent numbers for their position.

Ironically, if we had drafted Preston Williams instead of picking him up as free agent, then our average RAS number would have plummeted. That strangely awful combine day equated to a dreadful 2.76 RAS score for Williams.

I have no idea how anyone can be surprised that a troubled wide receiver with a 2.76 RAS went undrafted. However, he was an elite 5 star prized recruit so there was concealed talent. We'll see if he's sudden enough and plucky enough. Those are always the variables with bigger receivers.

Here are some links regarding RAS (Relative Athletic Score) and the Dolphins. You'll note how far we have lagged the league. The first one is average RAS on the starting offensive line from 2016. We were 4th from bottom. The second link looks at the 2017 draft in terms of RAS, with a notation regarding the 2016 draft. Miami was #31 among 32 in average RAS from the 2017 draft. In 2016 we were 25th.

The third link is an overall evaluation of athletic ability in regard to draft position. It is clear cut that the superior athletes are drafted early and then there is a tiered steady decline until the 5th round. However, it levels out in the 5th through 7th round. Perhaps that is why the Dolphins have had comparative success in those late rounds beginning with the 5th. The Dolphins ignore or improperly evaluate athletic ability early. Dion Jordan scored well overall but flunked the key metric tests for his position, the ones spotlighted by other models like Waldo and SackSeer. Charles Harris was a flat out athletic reject. But once not as many top athletes are available and it becomes more of a grab bag situation, the Dolphins fare well:

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/5/10/11634906/athleticism-and-offensive-line-success

https://relativeathleticscores.com/...17-draft-class-using-ras-all-32-teams-ranked/

https://relativeathleticscores.com/2017/04/23/does-general-athleticism-lead-to-high-draft-selection/

I'll throw in a 4th and 5th link...the 2019 draft class in total. Note than Michael Deiter was 5.64. That's not awful but consider the 9.84 for Joe Thuney and 9.17 for Shaq Mason.

The final link is a clickable RAS list of every draft dating to 1987:

https://relativeathleticscores.com/2019/03/15/2019-draft-class-ras-relative-athletic-scores/

https://relativeathleticscores.com/ras-by-draft-class/

BTW, there are outliers when weaker athletes over perform and superior athletes flop. We realize that. This is a tool. More often than not. When you are scrambling for outliers you are boosting the other guy's argument, not your own.



The bolded part here is the key to what has plagued the Dolphins in early rounds. It's the part that they must fix in the early rounds. This is a really good post.


However, it seems to me that it's been just the opposite in terms of the way they've evaluated and selected offensive lineman in the early to mid rounds. They've drafted numerous guys that were near the top of athletic profiles for offensive lineman, but just couldn't play - like Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner.

Almost as if these guys were drafted purely based on workout numbers on a sheet of paper, but not actually scouted. Never actually had eyeballs on 'em.

Even going all the way back to Donald Thomas in 2008 - extremely athletic offensive lineman prospect. Just couldn't play.

If anything, they've placed too much attention on two areas - upper body strength and 40 time - and not paid enough attention to lower body and ability to anchor when it comes to offensive lineman.


Jamil Douglas, Billy Turner, Dallas Thomas, Jonathan Martin, John Jerry, Shawn Murphy, Donald Thomas, Samson Satele, Joe Toledo, Wade Smith, Taylor Whitley, Todd Wade, Grey Ruegamer...

I mean you can look at almost all these offensive lineman Miami has drafted going all the way back to 2000 that couldn't play and you're not going to find a problem with the athletic profiles. Even see some converted former TE's in there. They simply couldn't anchor or come to balance on contact. With a few exceptions like Jake Long and Vernon Carey and Mike Pouncey.

It's not athleticism Miami's offensive line picks have lacked. It's the ability to block.

If anything, they need to trend more in the opposite direction. Start looking at guys with properly developed lower bodies and the ability to come to balance on contact. Sturdy, rugged war daddy's that may be a little less athletic, but able to string together 35+ collegiate starts in a row without missing a game. I think you're seeing that profile come together somewhat with guys like Calhoun and Deiter.
 
Optimistic for Calhoun and Deiter. Don't know too much about Deiter...was hoping we'd draft Calhoun; So stoked we got him UDFA
Pessimistic about Kilgore. Always hurt and even though it seems like he's a locker room leader, that might not translate to X and O's.

Who is getting looks on 2nd team at center?
 
Optimistic for Calhoun and Deiter. Don't know too much about Deiter...was hoping we'd draft Calhoun; So stoked we got him UDFA
Pessimistic about Kilgore. Always hurt and even though it seems like he's a locker room leader, that might not translate to X and O's.

Who is getting looks on 2nd team at center?
Chris Reed looks to be the next man up at center (and probably guard too)
 
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