10 Miami Dolphins with the most to prove during OTAs and training camp
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MiamiMuss
Active Roster
Great list...I cant get over the fact that Dansby isnt on the list.Although hes solid hes not Great in any 1 aspect of football and ecspecially is not a Leader on the defense.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Really well done, can't really argue with any of those. I think Vontae Davis in his own way has just as many questions to answer. Is he going to stop dicking around and actually be one of the better corners in the NFL that we all know he can be? Or will we see more of the same?
Many of those players in my opinion are not destined to reach out and grab it. I believe that Jared Odrick, Matt Moore, Clyde Gates and John Jerry in particular will probably not do the things people hope for them to do at the positions they'll be asked to play, and Koa Misi will be right behind them as a guy that plays but often looks like just a guy. I could see Chris Clemons doing exactly what highly athletic safeties have done in the past in Kevin Coyle's secondary, that is to say, they bounce off the bottom pretty nicely but still aren't really special. Chris Clemons was in the weeds in 2011. He could come back. He and Reshad Jones may start.
The guys on the list I think are going to reach out and take advantage of their opportunities are Cameron Wake (as always), Brian Hartline, Sean Smith (to an extent, Vontae will be the Pro Bowler) and Anthony Fasano.
Many of those players in my opinion are not destined to reach out and grab it. I believe that Jared Odrick, Matt Moore, Clyde Gates and John Jerry in particular will probably not do the things people hope for them to do at the positions they'll be asked to play, and Koa Misi will be right behind them as a guy that plays but often looks like just a guy. I could see Chris Clemons doing exactly what highly athletic safeties have done in the past in Kevin Coyle's secondary, that is to say, they bounce off the bottom pretty nicely but still aren't really special. Chris Clemons was in the weeds in 2011. He could come back. He and Reshad Jones may start.
The guys on the list I think are going to reach out and take advantage of their opportunities are Cameron Wake (as always), Brian Hartline, Sean Smith (to an extent, Vontae will be the Pro Bowler) and Anthony Fasano.
tazthenomad
Club Member
CK - please explain your rationale for Fasano's improvement
CK... I always enjoy reading your posts because your opinions are well thought out. I'm curious - would you explain why you think Fasano will do better this year? I'd love to see it happen and while I'd like it to happen I can't think of what has changed that would allow him to be more successful.
CK... I always enjoy reading your posts because your opinions are well thought out. I'm curious - would you explain why you think Fasano will do better this year? I'd love to see it happen and while I'd like it to happen I can't think of what has changed that would allow him to be more successful.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Fasano an underrated talent.
In 2008 with Chad Pennington throwing the ball, Miami threw down the deep middle (between the numbers, 10+ yards beyond the line) to their tight ends 34 times and Anthony was a chief part of that with 20 of the receptions for 202 yards and 2 TDs.
But in 2009 with Chad Henne throwing the ball, Dan Henning and even Brian Daboll essentially took that out of the playbook because they couldn't trust Chad to throw with good vision, ball control, touch and ball placement. Over the 2009 and 2010 seasons, as well as the 3.5 games of 2011 that Henne played, we only threw at the tight ends over the deep middle a total of 35 times. That's about 35.5 games, only 35 throws. When Matt Moore took over halfway through the 4th game, suddenly we're throwing the tight ends over the deep middle 21 times in 12.5 games. That's still not close to the level Joe Philbin will want, but it was improvement. Even Matt Moore doesn't throw there with the kind of vision and ball control you want, as he demonstrated in that first game he came in against San Diego and threw a pick to Eric Weddle trying to hit Fasano up the seam. The ball was woefully placed into a crowd.
You really have to keep in mind that a lot of the perception of Anthony Fasano's ability to threaten the seam is based on a period of time when we had a quarterback and offensive coordinator who treated the seam as if they were deathly allergic to it. Fasano is 6'4" and 260 lbs, ran a 4.72 at his Notre Dame pro day, and has soft hands. He's a smart player. Despite under-use, he still showed he could be a good player in the seam. If you total his work as a Miami Dolphin from 2008 to 2011, he's been thrown at 60 times over the deep middle and has produced 708 yards and 3 TDs. For comparison, over the same period (2008-2011) Jermichael Finley has been thrown to 56 times up the deep middle, producing 689 yards and 3 TDs. Fasano doesn't have Finley's athleticism or versatility, but he's a large guy that runs a 4.7 and can be a mismatch in that area on linebackers. He's more likely to be lost by the coverage in that area of the field than Finley was in Green Bay.
David Garrard throws the seam better than Matt Moore, in my opinion. If he wins the job then Fasano's footprint on the passing offense should increase.
Consider also that over the 2008 to 2011 period, Fasano generally spent between 1 in 5 and 1 in 4 pass snaps staying in to block. That won't happen under Joe Philbin. The increased snap count alone should be good for an additional 50 to 100 yards in receiving for Fasano.
Overall, back in 2008 Anthony was still kind of wet behind the ears and he had 454 receiving yards and 7 touchdowns. I think he'll get closer to those numbers again touchdown-wise, whereas his receiving yardage footprint could stretch up into the 700+ yard mark. Certainly not elite numbers at the position, but he could be looking at a Brandon Pettigrew type season from a pass catching standpoint, while maintaining the blocking prowess that makes him one of the more complete guys in the league at the position.
You'll see a lot of use out of Charles Clay and Michael Egnew, but Egnew is still going to be a little green and probably more of a role player. You can have Egnew on the perimeter in the red zone to where the defense is forced to respect the fade. You can run him up the deep middle to where the safety has to stay at home a little, freeing up a guy on the outside. You can get him the ball on screen plays and have him do exactly what he did at Missouri, run after the catch. Clay's role in the game plan will change week to week based on individual player matchups that they'll try and exploit. I think Fasano will be a staple this first year.
In 2008 with Chad Pennington throwing the ball, Miami threw down the deep middle (between the numbers, 10+ yards beyond the line) to their tight ends 34 times and Anthony was a chief part of that with 20 of the receptions for 202 yards and 2 TDs.
But in 2009 with Chad Henne throwing the ball, Dan Henning and even Brian Daboll essentially took that out of the playbook because they couldn't trust Chad to throw with good vision, ball control, touch and ball placement. Over the 2009 and 2010 seasons, as well as the 3.5 games of 2011 that Henne played, we only threw at the tight ends over the deep middle a total of 35 times. That's about 35.5 games, only 35 throws. When Matt Moore took over halfway through the 4th game, suddenly we're throwing the tight ends over the deep middle 21 times in 12.5 games. That's still not close to the level Joe Philbin will want, but it was improvement. Even Matt Moore doesn't throw there with the kind of vision and ball control you want, as he demonstrated in that first game he came in against San Diego and threw a pick to Eric Weddle trying to hit Fasano up the seam. The ball was woefully placed into a crowd.
You really have to keep in mind that a lot of the perception of Anthony Fasano's ability to threaten the seam is based on a period of time when we had a quarterback and offensive coordinator who treated the seam as if they were deathly allergic to it. Fasano is 6'4" and 260 lbs, ran a 4.72 at his Notre Dame pro day, and has soft hands. He's a smart player. Despite under-use, he still showed he could be a good player in the seam. If you total his work as a Miami Dolphin from 2008 to 2011, he's been thrown at 60 times over the deep middle and has produced 708 yards and 3 TDs. For comparison, over the same period (2008-2011) Jermichael Finley has been thrown to 56 times up the deep middle, producing 689 yards and 3 TDs. Fasano doesn't have Finley's athleticism or versatility, but he's a large guy that runs a 4.7 and can be a mismatch in that area on linebackers. He's more likely to be lost by the coverage in that area of the field than Finley was in Green Bay.
David Garrard throws the seam better than Matt Moore, in my opinion. If he wins the job then Fasano's footprint on the passing offense should increase.
Consider also that over the 2008 to 2011 period, Fasano generally spent between 1 in 5 and 1 in 4 pass snaps staying in to block. That won't happen under Joe Philbin. The increased snap count alone should be good for an additional 50 to 100 yards in receiving for Fasano.
Overall, back in 2008 Anthony was still kind of wet behind the ears and he had 454 receiving yards and 7 touchdowns. I think he'll get closer to those numbers again touchdown-wise, whereas his receiving yardage footprint could stretch up into the 700+ yard mark. Certainly not elite numbers at the position, but he could be looking at a Brandon Pettigrew type season from a pass catching standpoint, while maintaining the blocking prowess that makes him one of the more complete guys in the league at the position.
You'll see a lot of use out of Charles Clay and Michael Egnew, but Egnew is still going to be a little green and probably more of a role player. You can have Egnew on the perimeter in the red zone to where the defense is forced to respect the fade. You can run him up the deep middle to where the safety has to stay at home a little, freeing up a guy on the outside. You can get him the ball on screen plays and have him do exactly what he did at Missouri, run after the catch. Clay's role in the game plan will change week to week based on individual player matchups that they'll try and exploit. I think Fasano will be a staple this first year.
hoops
Tua time!
i'd take pettigrew over fasano if i had the choice...
LikeUntoGod
The Oracle
Fasano simply catches almost everything thrown to him. I think he has something like one drop last season and one the season before. Plus he blocks well and does all the "dirty work" that a all around TE is supposed to do.
Over the last two seasons, even though he has been thrown to a lot less, he has the same amount of TD passes as B Marshall did.
There is one simple reason he does not have a lot of catches, he is not thrown a lot of them.
Over the last two seasons, even though he has been thrown to a lot less, he has the same amount of TD passes as B Marshall did.
There is one simple reason he does not have a lot of catches, he is not thrown a lot of them.
hoops
Tua time!
wake is proven...don't know why he's on that list...premier pass rusher...odricks the next best player by a long shot...god help me did i really read miami believes bess and hartline can be solid starting wrs...list is chalk full of average at best football players like hartline smith clemons...if koa is gonna be an impact player i believe it will be as a 43 lb...the 34 olb stuff needs to be put to bed...its not happening...never was
ckparrothead
Premium Member
So would ibut that wasn't the point
hoops
Tua time!
wasn't disagreeing with what you said just making an observation after seeing the name pettigrew...i like fasano in line...and yeah if the balls near him he can go get em but athletically very limited imo and not much of a guy who makes safeties think about vacating the middle of the field down the seam...so his game will always be underappreciated by me i'm sure...and you have to watch who you ask him to block one on one in pass pro...i've seen the staff overestimate his ability to handle guys more than i care to i know that
Dr. Phin
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Wake is a great 3-4 OLB, but I have concerns with him in a 4-3. He has done well enough up to now against the run, but that was normally with that extra man on the line. I know we have seen him in the nickel a lot, but in those cases the run is not used at as high a percent of the time. I'm also concerned that some tackles are getting used to his low move on the speed rush and are just pushing down on top of him and stopping him completely.
That being said, Wake would not be in my "Top 10 list" of concerns....
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Well let me put it this way. To the extent that you've seen guys like Zach Miller, Brent Celek, Owen Daniels, Heath Miller and Kevin Boss produce in the passing game and make names for themselves at various points in time...I believe Anthony Fasano can be just as good in the passing game (if he doesn't have a QB who is allergic to the seam), while arguably being a better blocker. None of them are significantly better athletes than Fasano, and you can check Combine/Pro Day measures to verify that if you like. I think he's a good all-around tight end, a nice tool to have in the toolbox, and to me it's a no-brainer that in a Joe Philbin offense with Chad Henne gone, he should see an increase in production.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I can see why he's on the list. Volin's point was that while an Anthony Fasano may have been the ideal in a Tony Sparano offense, he may not be the ideal in a Joe Philbin offense. I think Michael Egnew is closer to the ideal in a Philbin offense. So Fasano has to prove that he belongs, as he's a free agent next year and the Dolphins will have to make a decision about whether to keep him and at what cost.