2017 NFL Draft Prospects | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

2017 NFL Draft Prospects

Disagree on a few points. If by twitched up, you're talking about vert, broad, and/or 40/10-YS, that's one prototype. The other is a player that has excellent agility (3-cone, 20-YS). For people who like Barnett, they're looking at him as the 2nd type. He's not twitched-up, and we know it, but his ability to bend the edge is unique for a player with his size and strength.

I also don't know why you don't see Barnett as a gifted technician. If he isn't, who is?

If he can post a strong 3 cone or 20-YS I would feel a lot better about Barnett because his bend is really good but those test are more a measure of agility and how well you move in space.Twitched up or being Twitchy is just draftnik jargon signifying explosion (Fast twitch muscle fibers) and the vert, broad jump,40/10-YS are the only tests at the combine that measures this. Bartnett lacks counters(he did flash some inside counters) and a variety of pass rush moves. Carl Lawson, Joe Mathis and Tim Williams are the technicians of this class they all display excellent hand placement, great outside and inside counters, an ability to reduce their surface area and flatten to the qb, much more consistent speed to power moves and great footwork when you compare them to Barnett's tape. Barnett also looks heavy footed on tape.
 
If he can post a strong 3 cone or 20-YS I would feel a lot better about Barnett because his bend is really good but those test are more a measure of agility and how well you move in space.Twitched up or being Twitchy is just draftnik jargon signifying explosion (Fast twitch muscle fibers) and the vert, broad jump,40/10-YS are the only tests at the combine that measures this. Bartnett lacks counters(he did flash some inside counters) and a variety of pass rush moves. Carl Lawson, Joe Mathis and Tim Williams are the technicians of this class they all display excellent hand placement, great outside and inside counters, an ability to reduce their surface area and flatten to the qb, much more consistent speed to power moves and great footwork when you compare them to Barnett's tape. Barnett also looks heavy footed on tape.

Yeah, we're just seeing different things. Mathis has fewer career sacks and TFL's than Banett produced as a true Freshman.

Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Clay Matthews, Vic Beasley, Danielle Hunter, and Joey Bosa (among others) are all players who thrive because of their agility, rather than twitch. In pass rushers, you're looking for a guy with elite twitch OR elite agility. Both is better, but outside of Justin Houston and JJ Watt, there aren't any in the NFL - though Frank Clark isn't far off.
 
I would say Miller wins on twitch, bend, speed and agility. no?

Twitch is good/not great. Speed and agility are elite, but speed doesn't matter if you don't have elite explosive power or elite speed. A lot of people missed on D. Fowler, because they didn't understand this. Von Miller's agility is his winning physical trait.
 
OT Garett Bolles Utah 6-5 297

[video=youtube;r0cdBvJD3QE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0cdBvJD3QE[/video]

Combine Results:
Height:6'5"
Weight:297
Arm:34
Hand:9 3/8
40 Yard Official:4.95
Bench:
Vertical:28
Broad:115
3-Cone:7.29
S. Shuttle:4.55
60 Yard Shuttle:

STRENGTHS: Easy movement skills for a man of his size. Possesses very good initial quickness, lateral agility and balance, translating well to mirroring edge rushers in pass protection as well as blocking on the move in the running game. Gains good depth on his initial kick-step, sliding easily to his left and playing with bent knees and his butt down to effectively win the leverage battle. Shows a second burst to recover on the rare occasions in which he is late off the snap. At least average arm length for the position. Provides a powerful initial punch to slow defender and can erase opponents from the play when he latches on with accurate hand placement. Unlocks his hips on contact, looking to maul opponents, not just steer them. Seems to enjoy the physicality and challenge of one-on-one drive blocking, firing off the snap and moving defenders because of his power and use of leverage. Accelerates smoothly out of his stance when uncovered, showing burst, bend and vision to locate and lock onto defenders at the second level. Blocks to the echo of the whistle, showing the nastiness to endear him to NFL offensive line coaches, as well as the natural combination of size, strength and athleticism that earned him playing time at eight different positions in high school... Has matured after a troubling adolescence. Served on an LDS mission and is now married with a child.
WEAKNESSES: Can get lazy with his fundamentals, especially in pass protection, failing to keep his feet shuffling and allowing his hands to slide up and down the chest plate, leaving him vulnerable to swim moves. A bit reliant, at times, on his initial punch and agility to mirror, failing to latch on and control as consistently as he should. Already an older prospect than most at 24 and has only one season at the FBS level, following his JUCO transfer. Suffered through a tough adolescence, including a drug-addicted mother. Was reportedly suspended or kicked out of five schools as a teenager, for issues involving drugs, fights and vandalism before being taken in by his former lacrosse coach (Greg Freeman) and his wife, Emily. Spent nearly two years out of school and football working in garage door repair between high school and Snow College.
IN OUR VIEW: Though he is more of a grappler than a technician at this point, Bolles appears to possess long enough arms to remain on the outside at tackle in the NFL and he certainly has the feet and nastiness scouts are looking for. Bolles projects best in a zone-blocking scheme and if teams are comfortable with his troubled past, he could earn top 50 consideration.
COMPARES TO: Breno Giacomini, New York Jets: Bolles is more athletic than Giacomini (who also played left tackle in college) and therefore has a better chance at remaining on the blind side at the next level than the former Louisville standout. Bolles plays with a similar physicality and brawler mentality that has helped Giacomini emerge as a quality starting right tackle and possesses a greater upside due to his limited reps.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/2240498/garett-bolles
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah, we're just seeing different things. Mathis has fewer career sacks and TFL's than Banett produced as a true Freshman.

Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Clay Matthews, Vic Beasley, Danielle Hunter, and Joey Bosa (among others) are all players who thrive because of their agility, rather than twitch. In pass rushers, you're looking for a guy with elite twitch OR elite agility. Both is better, but outside of Justin Houston and JJ Watt, there aren't any in the NFL - though Frank Clark isn't far off.

Von Miller 4.53 40 yd 37 inch vert, D Ware 4.56 38 inch vert,C Matthews 4.62 40 yd with 1.49 ten yard split, V beasley 4.53 40 yd 41 inch vert, D Hunter 4.57 40 yd 36 inch vert. All of the guys you named other than Bosa, games revolve around their ability to capture the edge with speed and all of them have elite explosion with Miller,Beasley and Ware having elite agility as well. Barnett needs to do well in either the explosion test or the agility tests at the combine.
Cam Wake 4.63 40 yd with a Combine record 45.5 inch Vert, Khalil Mack 4.65 40 yd 40 inch Vert, Dwight Freeney 4.48 40 yd 37 inch vertical, John Abraham reported 4.5 40 yd, Jevon Kearse 4.58 40 yd there's a high correlation with fast twitch ability and success with edge rushers in the NFL. In our Wide 9 defense edges that can win with speed is important.
 
Twitch is good/not great. Speed and agility are elite, but speed doesn't matter if you don't have elite explosive power or elite speed. A lot of people missed on D. Fowler, because they didn't understand this. Von Miller's agility is his winning physical trait.

Miller's Twitch is elite, probably the best first step in the NFL right now but he also has the best agility and movement skills also; one can say Miller was blessed twice by the football gods.
 
Von Miller 4.53 40 yd 37 inch vert, D Ware 4.56 38 inch vert,C Matthews 4.62 40 yd with 1.49 ten yard split, V beasley 4.53 40 yd 41 inch vert, D Hunter 4.57 40 yd 36 inch vert. All of the guys you named other than Bosa, games revolve around their ability to capture the edge with speed and all of them have elite explosion with Miller,Beasley and Ware having elite agility as well. Barnett needs to do well in either the explosion test or the agility tests at the combine.
Cam Wake 4.63 40 yd with a Combine record 45.5 inch Vert, Khalil Mack 4.65 40 yd 40 inch Vert, Dwight Freeney 4.48 40 yd 37 inch vertical, John Abraham reported 4.5 40 yd, Jevon Kearse 4.58 40 yd there's a high correlation with fast twitch ability and success with edge rushers in the NFL. In our Wide 9 defense edges that can win with speed is important.

I agree that Barnett has to show some level of twitch, but he doesn't have to jump 35". As I mentioned when Miller was addressed, these are good/not-great twitch athletes - not elite. Without elite agility, none of them would be close to what they are. Bud Dupree is a great example of a guy with elite twitch and poor agility. He's still going to be a great player, but he can't bend the edge. The players above win at a high rate because of elite agility. It's their defining trait. Without it, they don't have the twitch to be great edge rushers. Cam Wake is more similar to Dupree. Lamar Woodley was also this type of athlete (though Wake and Woodley are/were more agile than Dupree). They're players that win with twitch.
 
Miller's Twitch is elite, probably the best first step in the NFL right now but he also has the best agility and movement skills also; one can say Miller was blessed twice by the football gods.

His 10-YS was 1.62 at the Combine and 1.59 at his Pro Day. Just like his 37" vert and 10'06" broad, that's good (for someone at 246lbs) but not elite.
 
I agree that Barnett has to show some level of twitch, but he doesn't have to jump 35". As I mentioned when Miller was addressed, these are good/not-great twitch athletes - not elite. Without elite agility, none of them would be close to what they are. Bud Dupree is a great example of a guy with elite twitch and poor agility. He's still going to be a great player, but he can't bend the edge. The players above win at a high rate because of elite agility. It's their defining trait. Without it, they don't have the twitch to be great edge rushers. Cam Wake is more similar to Dupree. Lamar Woodley was also this type of athlete (though Wake and Woodley are/were more agile than Dupree). They're players that win with twitch.

Wake is nothing like Dupree, Wake is practically gumby when it comes to bending the edge ankle flexion, knee flexion and hip flexion. All the players you named are considered to have elite explosion based on the eye tests and their combine tests confirms this. Players that use bend on the edge threaten it with a speed rush which was Barnett's game at the collegiate level; but that game won't translate to the NFL where the tackles are much better athletes if he's is 4.8 guy with a 32 inch vert. Speed rush and Bending the arc is typically a combo package and if u have neither u better be a technician like Bosa.
 
Yeah, we're just seeing different things. Mathis has fewer career sacks and TFL's than Banett produced as a true Freshman.

Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Clay Matthews, Vic Beasley, Danielle Hunter, and Joey Bosa (among others) are all players who thrive because of their agility, rather than twitch. In pass rushers, you're looking for a guy with elite twitch OR elite agility. Both is better, but outside of Justin Houston and JJ Watt, there aren't any in the NFL - though Frank Clark isn't far off.

Not saying this is any type of way. Go back and do some research and look at the players again.

Barnett is a snap jumper, along with Walker. They don't work in the NFL. Barnett was lined up against a lot of weaker players, including inside. He'll never line up inside at the next level. Hes a finesse guy in a power body. Slow/heavy feet.

By contrast Mathis has violent, heavy hands. Very nice get off. Recognizes the type of blocks in front of him. Has counters.

He would have had an unbelievable year if not hurt.

I wouldn't touch Barnett until 2nd round.
 
Not saying this is any type of way. Go back and do some research and look at the players again.

Barnett is a snap jumper, along with Walker. They don't work in the NFL. Barnett was lined up against a lot of weaker players, including inside. He'll never line up inside at the next level. Hes a finesse guy in a power body. Slow/heavy feet.

By contrast Mathis has violent, heavy hands. Very nice get off. Recognizes the type of blocks in front of him. Has counters.

He would have had an unbelievable year if not hurt.

I wouldn't touch Barnett until 2nd round.

Agreed on the slow and heavy feet.
 
Back
Top Bottom