2021 Composite Ranking (Defense) | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

2021 Composite Ranking (Defense)

They play different positions and the nature of their 'production' is different.

A lot of people still only seem to count sacks and that's pretty much it. So if you don't have sacks then you're not productive.

Jayson Oweh had 21 run stops this year on only 171 run snaps. That's an outrageous figure. The jump he made from 2019 to 2020 that way is phenomenal. And it's not as if he forgot how to rush the passer. Last year he had a phenomenal 15.0% pressure rate. This year it was down some to 11.7%, but as I said it was because his all-around game improved so much and he wasn't just pinning his ears back.

I think people need to get out of their simplistic mindsets about the nature of football production. Any way that you affect the game in a positive way for your side can be construed as production. Just because they haven't invented a stat for it yet doesn't mean it's not production. Some day they will invent a stat for it and then people will be like, oh I guess he was productive.
 
ckparrothead said:
They play different positions and the nature of their 'production' is different.

A lot of people still only seem to count sacks and that's pretty much it. So if you don't have sacks then you're not productive.

Jayson Oweh had 21 run stops this year on only 171 run snaps. That's an outrageous figure. The jump he made from 2019 to 2020 that way is phenomenal. And it's not as if he forgot how to rush the passer. Last year he had a phenomenal 15.0% pressure rate. This year it was down some to 11.7%, but as I said it was because his all-around game improved so much and he wasn't just pinning his ears back.

I think people need to get out of their simplistic mindsets about the nature of football production. Any way that you affect the game in a positive way for your side can be construed as production. Just because they haven't invented a stat for it yet doesn't mean it's not production. Some day they will invent a stat for it and then people will be like, oh I guess he was productive.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'd be more of an Ojulari guy but Oweh's inside run defense is really special.
 
Fin Thirteen said:
Personally, I'd be more of an Ojulari guy but Oweh's inside run defense is really special.
Click to expand...

I like Ojulari too. But I do think that when they're both really compelling on a football field, and it's really close, you do well to err on the side of the physical phenom. Just a personal belief.
 
Yeah, i hear you. I think Ojulari might have the better first step tho. After that, Oweh really shines- his acceleration is special. I just don't see great hand use from Oweh (esp rushing from the right side) or any real bend of note. On pass rush downs it's 100% about the speed right now, which was less effective against the better teams.

Ojulari is better able to club the tackle's outside arm and arc to the QB. He's got better instincts as a rusher than Oweh, tho I'd suggest the roles are reversed in run stop.

Who knows which one will develop better? Ossai is in the argument for me too, he's a royal pain in the azz for any O to account for. He reminds me of Zadarius Smith coming out.
 
Last edited:
I was having a private conversation with a scout the other day and he's not a big Ojulari fan. I thought he was nuts, lol. I like him. Everybody sees it different though.
 
with the quick pass game so prevalent today, it seems like power over speed at the rush position. would rather a guy that can bull his way in and force the qb off his spot over waiting for a guy to run the arc.

i get that it's easier said than done to find those power guys. i just personally think that the speed/bend guys are a little overrated.
 
I see the Fins drafting someone like KJ Britt on Day 3 to play the Elandon Roberts role. Like 5-6th round; hopefully not earlier.
 
ckparrothead said:
They play different positions and the nature of their 'production' is different.

A lot of people still only seem to count sacks and that's pretty much it. So if you don't have sacks then you're not productive.

Jayson Oweh had 21 run stops this year on only 171 run snaps. That's an outrageous figure. The jump he made from 2019 to 2020 that way is phenomenal. And it's not as if he forgot how to rush the passer. Last year he had a phenomenal 15.0% pressure rate. This year it was down some to 11.7%, but as I said it was because his all-around game improved so much and he wasn't just pinning his ears back.

I think people need to get out of their simplistic mindsets about the nature of football production. Any way that you affect the game in a positive way for your side can be construed as production. Just because they haven't invented a stat for it yet doesn't mean it's not production. Some day they will invent a stat for it and then people will be like, oh I guess he was productive.
Click to expand...

Oh i agree, completely different positions and thus production - i'm just simply comparing how Parsons developed faster and turned that freak physical talent into consistent production while Oweh is still a bit raw and hasn't harnessed that god given ability yet. Parsons started since his freshman year and has 26 games and a ton of reps under his belt in 2 years. Oweh redshirted, then split reps with Toney/Gross-Matos in 2019.....so 20 total games and only starter reps this past year. His pass rush moves are under-developed, especially his hands. Little things like not swiping the hands of the tackle, squaring up too much and giving the OT his chest/outside shoulder, not utilizing the push/pull or rip once engaged, wasting a jab step inside then going outside.....he's so fast, he doesn't need to waste that motion. If anything, jab step out and go in. It's a lot of bull rush and pure speed....but he can flip his hips when he gains the outside shoulder of the tackle. The potential is sky high for this kid. Another year and i would have expected him to be talked about where Parsons currently is.....but he declared and someone has the chance of getting a steal if they're patient with him. I like his potential better than other guys i see rated higher in mocks.

As for the comment about people only seeing sacks and getting out of simplistic mindsets.....i hope that was more general for argument sake and not directed at me. While i do look at stats, particularly advanced stats, i only do so to see if the stats support what i see on tape......if not, i go back and watch again to see if i'm missing something. I doubt there's many people on here who have watched as much Penn State football, live or on TV, as i have over the years.
 
Oweh is a very intriguing prospect for me.

He is an athletic freak who with good coaching could really make a big jump from college to the NFL.

He would be on my short list of guys who are going to out perform their draft position.
 
ckparrothead said:
I was having a private conversation with a scout the other day and he's not a big Ojulari fan. I thought he was nuts, lol. I like him. Everybody sees it different though.
Click to expand...
Did he give a reasoning for it? Be very interested to know.....

For me, Ojulari got asked to do a lot for Georgia. He wasn't put on a pedestal as a blue chip edge guy and allowed to rack up stats for his benefit and the prestige of the team. He was asked to roll up his sleeves and properly set the edge, to occupy double teams for the benefit of others, to occasionally cover, to rush from both ends. I think it's to his credit he was a selfless player and still put up promising numbers, on top of being a high ceiling athlete. OK, it was Georgia, where they scarcely had a weak link in their defence and individuals benefit from the quality of the whole, but maybe nobody epitomized the sacrifice to the team better than Ojulari.

That says something.
 
Fin Thirteen said:
Did he give a reasoning for it? Be very interested to know.....

For me, Ojulari got asked to do a lot for Georgia. He wasn't put on a pedestal as a blue chip edge guy and allowed to rack up stats for his benefit and the prestige of the team. He was asked to roll up his sleeves and properly set the edge, to occupy double teams for the benefit of others, to occasionally cover, to rush from both ends. I think it's to his credit he was a selfless player and still put up promising numbers, on top of being a high ceiling athlete. OK, it was Georgia, where they scarcely had a weak link in their defence and individuals benefit from the quality of the whole, but maybe nobody epitomized the sacrifice to the team better than Ojulari.

That says something.
Click to expand...

Short answer is he thinks Ojulari is "just a guy" when it comes to being a pass rusher. Good all-around game, good against the run, nothing to get excited about when it comes to rushing the passer.

I mean, there's disagreement on this. Was talking to another person in scouting who loves him. Just saying it's funny.
 
I never agree with that.

NFL personnel is like a race against other fast runners. Not easy to win. Pretty easy to fall behind.

If you've ever stacked a board and simulated picks, you know the reason why. Which guys do you end up with? Your board could look 98% like everyone else's board out there. Who do you end up with as your 7 draft picks? The 2% where you differed. And you'd better hope you didn't differ from others because some piece of information slipped through the cracks, there's something everyone else was able to properly contextualize that you didn't, or you allowed emotional/cognitive biases into your process.

You've seen GMs be dismal failures and yet, push comes to shove, they know more football than you and I could ever hope to know. So why were they dismal failures? Should be impossible if it's truly a crap shoot. The failures are just the ones who didn't do the work quite as well as the others on that little 2% margin.
 
To be fair, i don't really agree with that either, in the strict sense! I was referring to the "opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one" aspect of draft evaluation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom