3 Deepest units, 3 units still under construction

dougb123

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I do believe I would of gone with CB as the deepest with 2 of the top paid players on the team and in the league and a bottom 1st round pick and carrying some decent backups and very good coaching in 2019 but that also depends on how Howard rebounds from 2019 and hopefully returns to his 2018 form.

2nd would have to be QB with Ryan Fitzpatrick playing better than any other AFC east QB at the end of the season, the investment in Tua with pick 5 in 2020 draft and the pickup last year of Rosen a 2018 top 10 draft pick, Dolphins should still have the best QB play in the AFC east and the future looks bright.

3rd would be the wide receivers with Parker emerging as a true #1 and possibly one of the better receivers in the league looking at what he did to Gilmore last year and Preston William who was leading the Dolphins in catches and yards before his injury, we can only hope he continues were he left off, looking deeper Hurns, Ford, Grant, Ricardo, Jennings we should find some decent backups there and I have to admit I'm more than intrigued with hopefully the new gadget player Malcolm Perry who can run, receive and pass.

Offense and defense lines with the work in FA and the draft which was substantial to me our still a work in progress and a wait and see.
 

fishbanger

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Best units are CBs, LBs, and WRs

Under construction: Safety, OL/OT, QBs actually (Fitz and Rosen can be gone in a year) - Tua still needs to prove himself
 

tay0365

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I'm struggling with "deepest." 'Most talented' units are CB, WR, RB and that's based on what I've seen in previous years. Are all those "deep?" No
Still under construction. Safety, TE, OL. I'm optimistic with Flowers at OG, Karras is capable, but the other 3 spots? Unknown.
Agreed. Though I like the potential of the O-Guards, it is still only potential, and you really can't split the O-Line as interior and Tackles...either they work well as a unit, or they fail as a unit.

WR has three above average Receivers, and a few more that are very solid, experienced receivers.
 

ThePeopleShow13

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I think WR is probably the most (fan) overrated position group on our team. Outside of Parker and Williams the rest of our WR are either injury prone or “meh” options. You also have to consider that Parker had numerous foot issues in his first 4 years while Williams tore his ACL last November. If everyone stays healthy, we definitely have a middle of the pack WR group...it’s just that history suggests we can’t count on that to happen.

I personally think that we will target a WR with one of our 1st round picks next year. Depending on how our OL fairs I wouldn’t be surprised if the other 1st round pick was an OG/C.
 

Digital

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Not sure I agree with all of the assessments in those articles. IMHO, our units would be:

Deepest
1. WR

I think this unit is stable and decent, not really under construction. I am on record as saying it was a nice deep WR draft, and I wanted and expected us to add one, because of the abundance of value at the position, but not because the position is a weakness.

2. CB
You can never have enough DB's, and I think our defensive success may well come down to A) Nickel, B) Dime, and C) Health of the DB positions. We definitely lack safeties, but seldom is a team "set" at DB. Relatively, we are.

3. QB
Fitzmagic has proven competent, durable, and resiliant. Rosen may not be a starter, but as an alternate/backup I feel he is solid. No reason to nitpick the room, and both Tua and the Dolphins are in a good situation where he can heal and learn.

Under Construction
1. OT

Agreed. Jesse Davis mans one, but which side depends upon the plan for Tua. Our other OT doesn't appear on the roster yet, IMHO. Jackson will man it next year, but 2020 may be a year too early, and I'm not a Robert Hunt believer, although I hope I'm proven wrong.

2. OG/C
Disagree. These interior positions are absolutely not settled or deep. Flowers is an answer _only if_ he plays guard and can duplicate his one decent season. Given the hole at OT, I pray he isn't 'needed' to play OT, or that's money very poorly spent. Karras is a solid OG/C, and our clear C this year, so if he stays healthy, I'm comfortable with him. But, we are paying him backup money, so clearly the team doesn't see him as the answer long-term for the position, thus his spot is also in flux. I'm a Michael Deiter fan, but his rookie season was rough, at this point, he's anywhere from a starter to a roster bubble guy. He needs to show improvement. Hunt's jump up in competition and empty pass protection record worry me ... he has large bust potential that everyone seems to be ignoring like an ostrich. Kindley is a very specific power run-blocking type of guy, but he'll be in the mix as well. All in all, I'd say this position might be the most in-flux of any position we have. We're trying to compensate for lack of quality with an abundance of quantity ... and that's never a good sign.

3. LB
While I agree that neither of our long-term safety answers may be on the roster (or Brandon Jones as 1 of our 3 safeties if you prefer), I think we have OK 2020 solutions with Rowe and McCain. The position everyone is ignoring is our woeful LB unit. I'm a Raekwon McMillan fan, but he has really been exposed in the passing game and his lack of athleticism may bring his spot into question eventually. Jerome Baker simply makes far too many mistakes to be a starter, despite his speed. While bringing in Kyle Van Noy is a gem of a move ... he's on the downside of his career, and probably only a 2-3 year solution. Everyone seems to want to paper over our problems at LB, but we have one of the worst LB rooms in the NFL. No amount of optimism will change that.
 

Finfan83nj

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I cant agree with the WR group as being stable because of Grants injury history. Missed 6 games in each of the last two seasons. Williams looks very very promising, but we dont know how hes going to return from ACL injury, I know they have better procedures now days, but still. Wilson just started looking like his old self the end of last season. Ford looked promising, hes spent forever on the PS though. So its a questionmark heading into the season, we will know once they start playing again.
 

Feverdream

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Not sure I agree with all of the assessments in those articles. IMHO, our units would be:

Deepest
1. WR

I think this unit is stable and decent, not really under construction. I am on record as saying it was a nice deep WR draft, and I wanted and expected us to add one, because of the abundance of value at the position, but not because the position is a weakness.

2. CB
You can never have enough DB's, and I think our defensive success may well come down to A) Nickel, B) Dime, and C) Health of the DB positions. We definitely lack safeties, but seldom is a team "set" at DB. Relatively, we are.

3. QB
Fitzmagic has proven competent, durable, and resiliant. Rosen may not be a starter, but as an alternate/backup I feel he is solid. No reason to nitpick the room, and both Tua and the Dolphins are in a good situation where he can heal and learn.

Under Construction
1. OT

Agreed. Jesse Davis mans one, but which side depends upon the plan for Tua. Our other OT doesn't appear on the roster yet, IMHO. Jackson will man it next year, but 2020 may be a year too early, and I'm not a Robert Hunt believer, although I hope I'm proven wrong.

2. OG/C
Disagree. These interior positions are absolutely not settled or deep. Flowers is an answer _only if_ he plays guard and can duplicate his one decent season. Given the hole at OT, I pray he isn't 'needed' to play OT, or that's money very poorly spent. Karras is a solid OG/C, and our clear C this year, so if he stays healthy, I'm comfortable with him. But, we are paying him backup money, so clearly the team doesn't see him as the answer long-term for the position, thus his spot is also in flux. I'm a Michael Deiter fan, but his rookie season was rough, at this point, he's anywhere from a starter to a roster bubble guy. He needs to show improvement. Hunt's jump up in competition and empty pass protection record worry me ... he has large bust potential that everyone seems to be ignoring like an ostrich. Kindley is a very specific power run-blocking type of guy, but he'll be in the mix as well. All in all, I'd say this position might be the most in-flux of any position we have. We're trying to compensate for lack of quality with an abundance of quantity ... and that's never a good sign.

3. LB
While I agree that neither of our long-term safety answers may be on the roster (or Brandon Jones as 1 of our 3 safeties if you prefer), I think we have OK 2020 solutions with Rowe and McCain. The position everyone is ignoring is our woeful LB unit. I'm a Raekwon McMillan fan, but he has really been exposed in the passing game and his lack of athleticism may bring his spot into question eventually. Jerome Baker simply makes far too many mistakes to be a starter, despite his speed. While bringing in Kyle Van Noy is a gem of a move ... he's on the downside of his career, and probably only a 2-3 year solution. Everyone seems to want to paper over our problems at LB, but we have one of the worst LB rooms in the NFL. No amount of optimism will change that.
When you are evaluating our LBs, I do believe there is one thing that you have to consider... and that is the fact that we just don't play as many linebackers as teams did a decade ago.

With the ascension of the passing game, the slot-corner plays almost every down now.... and four man fronts (or three man fronts with a designated pass rusher up), most teams play ....maybe.... 2 linebackers at a time. The position is a lot like Fullback these days, more of a relic than a going concern.
 

Mach2

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When you are evaluating our LBs, I do believe there is one thing that you have to consider... and that is the fact that we just don't play as many linebackers as teams did a decade ago.

With the ascension of the passing game, the slot-corner plays almost every down now.... and four man fronts (or three man fronts with a designated pass rusher up), most teams play ....maybe.... 2 linebackers at a time. The position is a lot like Fullback these days, more of a relic than a going concern.
I agree. What was considered a "conventional" set even decade ago, is almost extinct.

I'm not down on our LB unit at all. Both our guys from Ohio State are just now coming into thier primes. VanNoy should be a very assignment sound, and versatile player, in addition to some actual depth in guys like Gink and Biegel.
 

ChitownPhins28

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I dont think there's any doubt, at all, that the interior of the line is Vastly Upgraded.
That alone is gonna open holes for the running game, create more frequent favorable down-&-distance situations, which will create more deception our Coordinator to use, etc.
By midseason, I can see our rookie LT coming into his own if that talent is as-advertised.
By biggest worry is that Fitz might lose the 'magic'.
He thrived when there were almost no expectations. Can he sustain his 2019 play, or will he crumble under the weight of his own recent track record?
 

Digital

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When you are evaluating our LBs, I do believe there is one thing that you have to consider... and that is the fact that we just don't play as many linebackers as teams did a decade ago.

With the ascension of the passing game, the slot-corner plays almost every down now.... and four man fronts (or three man fronts with a designated pass rusher up), most teams play ....maybe.... 2 linebackers at a time. The position is a lot like Fullback these days, more of a relic than a going concern.
Agreed. The old discussion used to be 43 vs 34, but honestly, neither is played very often these days. It's usually a 33 or 32, and occasionally a 42 or 41. A 4 man DL is rare these days, and playing 3 full dedicated LB's is even rarer. That's where someone like Kyle Van Noy is so useful, because he's a hybrid guy kinda like AJ Duhe was. Sometimes he plays DE, sometimes he plays LB, and he can even line up as an inside LB if needed. While the Patriots offense has its warts, that Patriots defense we brought over has the potential to be something really special.

That said, Van Noy is good, but we need to groom someone like Andrew Van Ginkel to fill that role after Van Noy. Baker is the new breed speed LB, but he makes lots of bad decisions and he is a liability in the run game. McMillan is more of an old school LB, who is solid against the run, but is a liability in the passing game. Neither of those guys really has the flexibility to excel in this morphing Patriots defense. No disrespect to Beagel, but he's more of a situational pass rusher than a solution at LB. We have some pieces, but none of them really mesh with one another or our system, except Van Ginkel if he can become a lesser version of Van Noy.

Our LB corps really flatters to deceive. It flashes and seems like it might have potential ... but it's just a collection of odd parts, not well meshing gears. My expectation is that we'll give these parts their chance to shine in 2020, and draft starting DE's and LB's in the 2021 draft, along with 2 more OL, and probably 1 or even 2 more S. It's clear what we targeted, and until we get good pass rushers, this defense isn't going to go to the next level. But this secondary is shaping up to be quite good, so it's probably only a matter of time before we build a strong defense.
 

Mach2

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Agreed. The old discussion used to be 43 vs 34, but honestly, neither is played very often these days. It's usually a 33 or 32, and occasionally a 42 or 41. A 4 man DL is rare these days, and playing 3 full dedicated LB's is even rarer. That's where someone like Kyle Van Noy is so useful, because he's a hybrid guy kinda like AJ Duhe was. Sometimes he plays DE, sometimes he plays LB, and he can even line up as an inside LB if needed. While the Patriots offense has its warts, that Patriots defense we brought over has the potential to be something really special.

That said, Van Noy is good, but we need to groom someone like Andrew Van Ginkel to fill that role after Van Noy. Baker is the new breed speed LB, but he makes lots of bad decisions and he is a liability in the run game. McMillan is more of an old school LB, who is solid against the run, but is a liability in the passing game. Neither of those guys really has the flexibility to excel in this morphing Patriots defense. No disrespect to Beagel, but he's more of a situational pass rusher than a solution at LB. We have some pieces, but none of them really mesh with one another or our system, except Van Ginkel if he can become a lesser version of Van Noy.

Our LB corps really flatters to deceive. It flashes and seems like it might have potential ... but it's just a collection of odd parts, not well meshing gears. My expectation is that we'll give these parts their chance to shine in 2020, and draft starting DE's and LB's in the 2021 draft, along with 2 more OL, and probably 1 or even 2 more S. It's clear what we targeted, and until we get good pass rushers, this defense isn't going to go to the next level. But this secondary is shaping up to be quite good, so it's probably only a matter of time before we build a strong defense.
Agree for the most part, but I think Baker will continue to improve.

With 2 years experience, in two totally different systems, I expect him to take a step up this season.

If not, then we have a lot of picks next draft.
 

Digital

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Agree for the most part, but I think Baker will continue to improve.

With 2 years experience, in two totally different systems, I expect him to take a step up this season.

If not, then we have a lot of picks next draft.
I hope you're right about Baker. We all salivate over his speed, but he has shown a consistent inability to learn the playbook and grind system knowledge like we need. Unfortunately for him, this Patriots defense requires things that are not his fortes, like grinding contingent knowledge for very complex schemes, disciplined execution, versatility of roles, defending the run, fighting through blocks, tackling, and interdependent stunts. Of which, none of those things does Baker do very well. He doesn't study, he routinely shows poor gap discipline and poor reads, he's a speed pass rusher and cover LB, gets washed out or blown up in the run game consistently, can't fight through a block to save his life (too small and light), poor tackler for a LB, and doesn't know the playbook well enough or reliably enough to be consistently effective running games/twists/stunts. Too often he's in the wrong place.

This defense is much like a Bill Arnsparger defense, it's all about everyone knowing their roles, not making mental errors, and doing their job. It's not designed to be dominant like the '85 Bears or recent defenses of the Ravens and Seahawks. It's designed to be able to adapt to be good against any offense it faces. That requires a higher level of knowledge for complex schemes, versatility in execution, few mental errors, and doing your job. Baker is poor at all of those ... so he really is in his last good window to show he can do that with the Dolphins. He's a classic case of a kid who might blossom in another system and another team, like the Saints, Broncos or Eagles. There he could just run all day as a hybrid S/LB, cover some, pass rush some, and chase the ball.
 

MP-Omnis

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I'd actually be totally shocked if our D-line isn't a strong suit. Obviously, we still need a legit edge rushing threat to put us over the top. However, I feel really good about the additions to the core of the line. Ogbah is going to be a starter. He plays upright AF and still anchors his edge against the run. Raekwon Davis has HUGE ceiling, and Strowbridge is also very talented for a mid-late-rounder. I feel like these guys are gonna flourish with our coaches.
 
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