3ypc-(2019 Nfl Draft Review) Episode 2.72 | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

3ypc-(2019 Nfl Draft Review) Episode 2.72

ATL_PHIN_FAN said:
Not at all. Just don't see WHY sticking to the plan is so paramount, even at the expense of a shot at a potentially very good, or better, QB? Which of course, we have failed to acquire for far too long?
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That's the thing I honestly don't get. Their stance almost seems to suggest that the Dolphins can no longer proceed with future QB prospects evaluation and acquisitions now that they have Rosen. Partially, because they won't be able to effectively "evaluate" Rosen and cut bait if he's mediocre. A round about way of saying they'll get stuck in the Tannehill evaluation process while(I assume) letting top Qbs pass them by.

That obviously could happen. But I don't get the impression at all that this front office is going to stick by an okay QB when a top prospect is within their grasp.
 
The point about the acquisition’s inherent investment horizon being a mismatch with the entire off season’s personnel strategy is a factor that references to the deal price.

If your analysis about the worthiness of the trade is not ever going to reference the deal price, then we aren’t on the same wavelength and we are not going to agree on the trade. And that’s fine.

What isn’t fine is grossly mis-characterizing what we have said, being rude, or being insulting, etc. I am probably going to respond when that happens because this ain’t a TGI Friday’s and the customer is not always right.
 
ckparrothead said:
The point about the acquisition’s inherent investment horizon being a mismatch with the entire off season’s personnel strategy is a factor that references to the deal price.

If your analysis about the worthiness of the trade is not ever going to reference the deal price, then we aren’t on the same wavelength and we are not going to agree on the trade. And that’s fine.

What isn’t fine is grossly mis-characterizing what we have said, being rude, or being insulting, etc. I am probably going to respond when that happens because this ain’t a TGI Friday’s and the customer is not always right.
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Interesting, How much is a "possible" franchise Qb worth(deal price)?
You've gone on record and said you'd trade "multiple" 1st round picks for Murray.
But, somehow, the deal price here being No.62 overall is unworthy?
 
The overriding issue is that these guys devote so much time to studying players. Months and months, with prior years also a slice. So naturally they develop favorites and biases. You wait for 3 days in April and when the names come from outside your favored list no kidding there is tendency to get frustrated and express it.

Also, these guys in general are higher caliber than other similar versions that own more of a national presence and following. That has to be bothersome as well. I always feel particularly bad for the commonmanfootball guy on YouTube because I think he is second to none...sharply incorporating stuff like analytics and production along with age, yet his videos might earn 100 views and a handful of comments. He asked for 275 Patreon followers to keep going. I think he got 36.

Simply too much competition out there.

I don't expect the Dolphins to dominate one round after another. Just make a steady stream of logical decisions that are above the curve. The early rounds are exponentially more significant than the late rounds in that regard. Far too often the Dolphins butchered perspective and the choice in the first round, but fans deflected that based on decent picks later.

Now the trend is reversed and I'm happy about that. The later picks will take care of themselves, mostly blending into mediocrity. The Dolphins never figured to execute a successful tank because if you are 6 to 10 wins for a decade there's a fundamental reason for it...everything in your building attaches to that range, from owner thought process to scouting thought process, etc. We are not likely to escape immediately, in either direction.

Wilkins was an astute pick. This was the second consecutive year the first round seemingly came down to a handful of guys and the Dolphins picked from them, instead of making an asinine choice like Dillard. Older regimes would have taken someone like Dillard. The second round was not Josh Rosen. It was the trade down from 48 to 62. As soon as I saw that I was thrilled. It was instantly apparent what was likely to happen: That 62 could be used to appease Arizona. After all, they got their second round pick for Josh Rosen. Meanwhile the Dolphins added additional fuel for 2020. Not Tua fuel. Maneuverability fuel. Rosen was like a wonderfully inexpensive rent with option to buy.

I'm not sure I could name the remainder of our picks. Crowd players get drafted in that range and then everyone tries to nitpick one Crowd from another.
 
ANUFan said:
Interesting, How much is a "possible" franchise Qb worth(deal price)?
You've gone on record and said you'd trade "multiple" 1st round picks for Murray.
But, somehow, the deal price here being No.62 overall is unworthy?
Click to expand...

I am a little confused here. Are we now exploring the fundamental concept of the source of pricing differences between player assets?

The draft is an exercise in player projection and history shows us very vividly that every player no matter where taken has the absolute potential to end up a truly excellent, hall of fame type of player. That doesn’t mean you just blindfold yourself and throw darts at a dartboard when trying to determine whether to spend a 7th round pick on Clayton Thorson or a #1 overall on Clayton Thorson. You make, to the best of your ability, an intelligent evaluation of the probability that Clayton Thorson becomes that player, and then you value him accordingly.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
The overriding issue is that these guys devote so much time to studying players. Months and months, with prior years also a slice. So naturally they develop favorites and biases. You wait for 3 days in April and when the names come from outside your favored list no kidding there is tendency to get frustrated and express it.

Also, these guys in general are higher caliber than other similar versions that own more of a national presence and following. That has to be bothersome as well. I always feel particularly bad for the commonmanfootball guy on YouTube because I think he is second to none...sharply incorporating stuff like analytics and production along with age, yet his videos might earn 100 views and a handful of comments. He asked for 275 Patreon followers to keep going. I think he got 36.

Simply too much competition out there.

I don't expect the Dolphins to dominate one round after another. Just make a steady stream of logical decisions that are above the curve. The early rounds are exponentially more significant than the late rounds in that regard. Far too often the Dolphins butchered perspective and the choice in the first round, but fans deflected that based on decent picks later.

Now the trend is reversed and I'm happy about that. The later picks will take care of themselves, mostly blending into mediocrity. The Dolphins never figured to execute a successful tank because if you are 6 to 10 wins for a decade there's a fundamental reason for it...everything in your building attaches to that range, from owner thought process to scouting thought process, etc. We are not likely to escape immediately, in either direction.

Wilkins was an astute pick. This was the second consecutive year the first round seemingly came down to a handful of guys and the Dolphins picked from them, instead of making an asinine choice like Dillard. Older regimes would have taken someone like Dillard. The second round was not Josh Rosen. It was the trade down from 48 to 62. As soon as I saw that I was thrilled. It was instantly apparent what was likely to happen: That 62 could be used to appease Arizona. After all, they got their second round pick for Josh Rosen. Meanwhile the Dolphins added additional fuel for 2020. Not Tua fuel. Maneuverability fuel. Rosen was like a wonderfully inexpensive rent with option to buy.

I'm not sure I could name the remainder of our picks. Crowd players get drafted in that range and then everyone tries to nitpick one Crowd from another.
Click to expand...

What you call “favorites” are merely players that we have evaluated to be better than some other players. In some cases, significantly so. To not even describe where the player came out in our evaluation would be shilling. That may be what you are in for. It’s not what I’m in for. You’re listening to the wrong podcast.

If you listened to the podcast and your overall impression was that I was ‘negative’ on all of the players Miami took, then you didn’t listen well. I gushed about almost all of them. I talked about things I went back and looked at after they were taken and that made the picks make more sense. Simply acknowledging that a player did not come out high on my evaluation does not equate to bias. It’s being honest. And again, if you’re not looking for honesty, you’re listening to the wrong podcast.
 
Listen to the first Rosen part expecting quality input and being informed of the plus and minus's in getting the Rosen acquisition by guys that seem to be way ahead of me in the football evaluation dept.
Sadly for me, two of the guys we focused more on trade evaluation instead of the player Rosen fit for our need, which is what I was anticipating. Instead of how and why was it a good trade, did the new guys get informed properly, should of could of would of in the questioning of more the process, high 2 and a 5 to much ? maybe a 3rd ?
Sorry nothing personnel just expecting yous guys evaluation of the success or not he will or will not bring to the table. Cause I do respect these guys but truthfully realize they like us really aren't on solid ground because of the lack of exposure of the staff and the road they are actually on to make assumptions as to their thought process's....

Simon ( I think) the one with the accent brought pretty much the only thing I found reasonable and in my interest when he said,

" I don't really see what the fuss is about, You go to the well and try to fix the problem thats cursed this team since Dan Marino got blown out, blahbiddy blah to 7...."

Sorry yous guys might of done that on another episode that I didn't hear...
But the opinion on when and where he was taken and the process that the team underwent this year and last years Clowns assessment doesn't interest me.
I have no problem with where they picked him even if it would have been at 62...
Think Simons statement sez it all ...and the deal itself is a gift, even if we lost out on those future heros in the up coming draft. JMO
 
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Entertaining thread to say the least. At the end of the day we drafted who we drafted and we traded for who we traded for. We should ALL be rooting for these players to do well and being upset at who we didn't draft won't help at all. Embrace the new players at least till they showed that we shouldn't.
 
Stop listening after a few goes but good luck and now I'm reading they are down on Rosen. It's their point of view. Fair play but if I want negative I will go and watch replays of the QBs us fans have suffered since Marino retired. I will admit ive changed my view on the actual trade. Rosen? Who knows but he's got upside coming from that mess in Arizona. Fingers crossed and I'm optimistic.
 
One really great discussion they had was regarding the fluctuating weight of Dwayne Haskins. I forget if it was in this episode or the one after the first round. Haskins was properly mocked for weight gain during his final season and into the combine, then losing it before the pro day, and ballooning before the draft.

Absolutely. I don't know why the traditional media have been so reluctant to address that. Haskins comes across well in interviews but I don't fully trust him. Daniel Jones was the suicide pick but Haskins would have left me with a sunken feeling.
 
cuzinvinny said:
Listen to the first Rosen part expecting quality input and being informed of the plus and minus's in getting the Rosen acquisition by guys that seem to be way ahead of me in the football evaluation dept.
Sadly for me, two of the guys we focused more on trade evaluation instead of the player Rosen fit for our need, which is what I was anticipating. Instead of how and why was it a good trade, did the new guys get informed properly, should of could of would of in the questioning of more the process, high 2 and a 5 to much ? maybe a 3rd ?
Sorry nothing personnel just expecting yous guys evaluation of the success or not he will or will not bring to the table. Cause I do respect these guys but truthfully realize they like us really aren't on solid ground because of the lack of exposure of the staff and the road they are actually on to make assumptions as to their thought process's....

Simon ( I think) the one with the accent brought pretty much the only thing I found reasonable and in my interest when he said,

" I don't really see what the fuss is about, You go to the well and try to fix the problem thats cursed this team since Dan Marino got blown out, blahbiddy blah to 7...."

Sorry yous guys might of done that on another episode that I didn't hear...
But the opinion on when and where he was taken and the process that the team underwent this year and last years Clowns assessment doesn't interest me.
I have no problem with where they picked him even if it would have been at 62...
Think Simons statement sez it all ...and the deal itself is a gift, even if we lost out on those future heros in the up coming draft. JMO
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we felt like we had already covered quite a bit of ground on Josh Rosen in other episodes and we almost nixed this conversation altogether because of the environment of intolerance out there on both sides about the trade and the fact we had covered it I believe in two other episodes. So we intended to limit our total amount of time we could speak. You can’t cover everything for an unlimited amount of time, choices had to be made.

If we had more time I could have covered what I see on film with Josh, what I didn’t like, what I believe he should be good at, what he won’t be good at, and what I think his future will hold. Of course when I’ve done that before in other venues it’s mostly been met with intolerance because my outlook isn’t acceptably optimistic for the crowd.
 
ckparrothead said:
Unfortunately we felt like we had already covered quite a bit of ground on Josh Rosen in other episodes and we almost nixed this conversation altogether because of the environment of intolerance out there on both sides about the trade and the fact we had covered it I believe in two other episodes. So we intended to limit our total amount of time we could speak. You can’t cover everything for an unlimited amount of time, choices had to be made.

If we had more time I could have covered what I see on film with Josh, what I didn’t like, what I believe he should be good at, what he won’t be good at, and what I think his future will hold. Of course when I’ve done that before in other venues it’s mostly been met with intolerance because my outlook isn’t acceptably optimistic for the crowd.
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Honest question here:

What would you need to see out of Rosen this season to make you comfortable with him going forward?
Is that even a possibility for you?

2:1 TD:INT ratio? Playoff berth? Superbowl appearance?
 
ckparrothead said:
Unfortunately we felt like we had already covered quite a bit of ground on Josh Rosen in other episodes and we almost nixed this conversation altogether because of the environment of intolerance out there on both sides about the trade and the fact we had covered it I believe in two other episodes. So we intended to limit our total amount of time we could speak. You can’t cover everything for an unlimited amount of time, choices had to be made.

If we had more time I could have covered what I see on film with Josh, what I didn’t like, what I believe he should be good at, what he won’t be good at, and what I think his future will hold. Of course when I’ve done that before in other venues it’s mostly been met with intolerance because my outlook isn’t acceptably optimistic for the crowd.
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I'm sorry I missed the actual player on the field evaluations by yous guys. That would interest me although not always agreeing value you alls insight and its clear to see you put a lot more energy in it than me....

A little advice Do Not let the different views and intolerance people affect your right to your opinion... The world is turning in that direction of subduing and condemning not so much even the views but the people with those views. See it here in the poli forum to an extreme. Shine it on and tell it like you see it and those with a working brain will appreciate it, and the others probably start to cry....lol

DON'T BE INTIMIDATED ...or you will be useless....
 
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