4-3 vs. 3-4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

4-3 vs. 3-4

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7001

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I like the simplicity and effectiveness of our old 4-3 and cover 2 scheme much better than Saban's 3-4.

Bates had a good system and why we replaced it, I don't know. We were always a top 10 D. We were able to cover the pass and stop the run. We had a good blitz package that allowed JT to do what JT does. Pass rush off the corner. If we had a good QB at the time, we would have went to the SB at least once.

The 3-4.

Doesn't seem to help us stop anything. Parker had over 100 yards rushing against some meat on the front line. We had TE burn us for over 80 yards and score a TD. I think the blitz packages and the complicated schemes should be thrown out the window, before it's too late.

It comes down to this. The basics. If we can control the line on both sides of the ball we will win games and lots of them.

A great O-Line can make mediocre QB's and RB's look great. We have a great QB and RB. They would look like Gods.

A great D-line will stop the run and be able to pass rush effectively. Making every body's job easier behind them.

It's not rocket science. Quit trying to make it that way.
 
the oinly thing i agree with u is that jason taylor is much better just playing on either side of the line each down. he seems lost when they stand him up as linebacker.
 
but i really think if our players learn saban's complicated defense, it will be superior. that heath miller TD should never have happened, shoulda just been a 15 yard completion with a safety coming over to make the stop
 
That's what I meant to say. I didn't mean him coming out of the LB position. But he is much better on the line.
 
another reason why we're not a top 10 d anymore is we lost our best corner, best safeties, one of our best dlineman, and our "stars" are getting old. this all happened over the last 2 years, thats why we brought so much youth in, to try and build for the future

last year we had an ugly stat, we were the oldest defense in the league. this year we're not.
 
Yeah, I get what your saying. I just have never been a fan of the 3-4. I think it allows too many holes that can be exploited, especially with new and younger guys. I think simple is the way to go. Especially when your looking for a quick turn around with a young D.
 
yah man, in all honesty, i agree with u. i prefer the 4-3 classic defense as well
 
If you are saying that our D under bates didn't give up any 100 yard rushers or big plays in the air, then you are either still frustrated by the last game or you are delusional. I'm betting on the former. In case you didn't notice, The Steelers run the 3-4 and they stop plenty of people. It is not so much the scheme but the personnel in that scheme.
I agree that Bates had a good system but it was also predictable.
 
I don't think I said that at all.

I was voicing that our D was much better at the 4-3 and that I didn't like 3-4. The Steelers do run a 3-4 and are good at it. It just doesn't work for us.
 
Our D in the 4-3 was better because of the personnel. We don't really play true 3-4 or 4-3. Maybe that's part of the problem.
 
yeah... instead of pat surtain, sam madison, sammy knight, and brock marion, we got a bunch of new players... i kinda like will allen (tho i still say u cant trust NFC players), and i think with another year of FA and draft, saban can get this secondary elite again
 
7001 said:
I like the simplicity and effectiveness of our old 4-3 and cover 2 scheme much better than Saban's 3-4.

Bates had a good system and why we replaced it, I don't know. We were always a top 10 D. We were able to cover the pass and stop the run. We had a good blitz package that allowed JT to do what JT does. Pass rush off the corner. If we had a good QB at the time, we would have went to the SB at least once.

The 3-4.

Doesn't seem to help us stop anything. Parker had over 100 yards rushing against some meat on the front line. We had TE burn us for over 80 yards and score a TD. I think the blitz packages and the complicated schemes should be thrown out the window, before it's too late.

It comes down to this. The basics. If we can control the line on both sides of the ball we will win games and lots of them.

A great O-Line can make mediocre QB's and RB's look great. We have a great QB and RB. They would look like Gods.

A great D-line will stop the run and be able to pass rush effectively. Making every body's job easier behind them.

It's not rocket science. Quit trying to make it that way.
Click to expand...

I hate to tell you, but it is rocket science. The Cover 2 system is vanilla and good offensive coordinators can pick it apart in big spots. Also, if a team can run vertically against you, you will pay -- especially against a good TE.

I love Jim Bates' system, to a point. My main problem with it is, that the offense knows what you are doing. The playbook doesn't allow for the variations that Saban's does. Think about Bates' scheme -- he had Surtain and Madison in their prime. They were awesome. However, think about their salary cap implications... That's another problem with the Bates system. For it to work its magic, it needs ALOT of salary money fed into it. Saban's system allows for more interchangeable parts. I believe one of Saban's keys, the NT, is only making $800K!

I implore all of you to give Saban's system some time to manifest itself. It is still in transition mode. One of the starting Corners, and our future at Safety were not playing. The next step has been made, but we just played the defending Super Bowl champions. A lot of Willie's yards were due to poor tackling, not scheme.
 
Most people also prefer the 4-3, because they understand it better. As Simeon Rice (or Warren Sapp??) described it, that style is the "Whoop-a-man" defense. Everyone has a gap, and everyone knows where that gap is. Most people can describe one-gap line technique. Most can't explain the art of two-gapping. I sure as hell can't.

I think the fact that Tampa's defensive playbook is a 150 pages and Nick Saban's LSU (COLLEGE!!!!!!) playbook was over 350 pages...
 
One of the best D's ever used mainly a cover 2 scheme and a 4-3 scheme. That was the Bucs when they won the SB. Those schemes work and work well.

I don't think you should use a scheme and then just put players in there. You should build the scheme around your players abilities. Right now we don't have 3-4 players.

Use the players we have to our advantage. JT isn't a LB. He is a DE. ZT plays better in the middle not on the outside middle.

Then build off of that if you feel the need. All that shifting didn't get us anywhere. But confused.

All this money that is spent on coaching and we still don't have a line or a defense. All this hype that we were getting in off season about our D and they weren't able to produce. Against a mediocre offense.

We need to go back to the 4-3 where we belong.
 
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