A Coach is only as good as his Quarterback... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

A Coach is only as good as his Quarterback...

SkapePhin

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IMO, Saban is an excellent coach, but he may be done in by his personnel decision in regards to a single position. It is the position that makes good coaches legends, or good coaches failures..

The decision to trade for Culpepper may be the one decision that keeps him from building a Superbowl Champion in Miami, or the time to do it.. In the past, a coach was afforded more time and room for error.. In today's NFL, you have a short time, and if you goof at this position, you are done.

Without Brady, Bellicheck likely wouldnt have 4 rings on his hand, or even a job in Massachusetts at the moment.

Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history, yet also the benefactor of 3 consecutive Hall of Fame QBs.. Coincidence?

Unless Saban gets lucky, he might end up having to build a dynasty in some other city.. He needs either to catch lightning from some young gun in the draft, or hope for the miraculous return of the 2004 Daunte Culpepper.. If not, he will end up like every other coach without a QB.. Fired.
 

TexanPhinatic

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Amen-it is a little rediculous how quick everyone is to pull the trigger on a coach these days. But then, this is the "now" era, get it now or get lost.
 

SCall13

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SkapePhin said:
IMO, Saban is an excellent coach, but he may be done in by his personnel decision in regards to a single position. It is the position that makes good coaches legends, or good coaches failures..

The decision to trade for Culpepper may be the one decision that keeps him from building a Superbowl Champion in Miami, or the time to do it.. In the past, a coach was afforded more time and room for error.. In today's NFL, you have a short time, and if you goof at this position, you are done.

Without Brady, Bellicheck likely wouldnt have 4 rings on his hand, or even a job in Massachusetts at the moment.

Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history, yet also the benefactor of 3 consecutive Hall of Fame QBs.. Coincidence?

Unless Saban gets lucky, he might end up having to build a dynasty in some other city.. He needs either to catch lightning from some young gun in the draft, or hope for the miraculous return of the 2004 Daunte Culpepper.. If not, he will end up like every other coach without a QB.. Fired.


Great post. Very true.
 

Superself

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I kinda get your point, but your view is very narrow without including the coaches who have done it without a top 5 QB.
 

SkapePhin

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Superself said:
I kinda get your point, but your view is very narrow without including the coaches who have done it without a top 5 QB.

Name some? If they didnt, they got the championship on the back of some of the greatest defenses the world has ever seen..

There is one common thread with ALL of the dynasties... Hall of Fame QB play.
 

PhinGeneral

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SkapePhin said:
IMO, Saban is an excellent coach, but he may be done in by his personnel decision in regards to a single position. It is the position that makes good coaches legends, or good coaches failures..

The decision to trade for Culpepper may be the one decision that keeps him from building a Superbowl Champion in Miami, or the time to do it.. In the past, a coach was afforded more time and room for error.. In today's NFL, you have a short time, and if you goof at this position, you are done.

Without Brady, Bellicheck likely wouldnt have 4 rings on his hand, or even a job in Massachusetts at the moment.

Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history, yet also the benefactor of 3 consecutive Hall of Fame QBs.. Coincidence?

Unless Saban gets lucky, he might end up having to build a dynasty in some other city.. He needs either to catch lightning from some young gun in the draft, or hope for the miraculous return of the 2004 Daunte Culpepper.. If not, he will end up like every other coach without a QB.. Fired.

Can we just have a Super Bowl champion first before getting carried away with a dynasty?

Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl. So did Trent Dilfer, Ben Roethlisberger, Mark Rypien and Doug Williams. Let's just have a QB that can win a SB first.
 

SkapePhin

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PhinGeneral said:
Can we just have a Super Bowl champion first before getting carried away with a dynasty?

Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl. So did Trent Dilfer, Ben Roethlisberger, Mark Rypien and Doug Williams. Let's just have a QB that can win a SB first.

Umm, thats my point.. A coach needs steady QB play to be successful.. All of those guys listed had that during those seasons, and the worst of the bunch had some of the greatest defenses of all time (2002 Buccs, 2000 Ravens)

Big Ben was a good QB last season, with a great D.. Why do you think Cowhrer couldnt win with Kordell?
 

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I think having a great QB helps but isn't always necessary. But I also think it cuts both ways. A great QB is only as good as the offensive schemes he's ordered to run, the players surrounding him, the quality of the coaching, etc.

There have been Superbowl champs that had good but not great QB's:

Baltimore - Trent Dilfer
Tampa Bay - Brad Johnson
Washington - Mark Rypien
NY Giants - Jeff Hostetler

I could go on, but you get the idea.

I think Saban is capable of being a Superbowl coach down the road. If we make that assumption then perhaps the real question is whether we think Daunte or Joey are good enough QB's.
 

Eliot

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SkapePhin said:
..A coach needs steady QB play to be successful..

That's pretty much common sense. Not that big of a point to make. Of course your right with what your saying. No coach has been successfull with poor QB play. But how about this: Best coach + Best QB in the history of the game = NO SBs. Theres more to it than one players performance.
 

SkapePhin

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Eliot said:
That's pretty much common sense. Not that big of a point to make. Of course your right with what your saying. No coach has been successfull with poor QB play. But how about this: Best coach + Best QB in the history of the game = NO SBs. Theres more to it than one players performance.

My point is more to people who are saying that Saban is a terrible coach.. IMO, he does all of the things that the great coaches do, only he doesnt have the most important piece which leads to consistent W's.. If he had the right QB, I have no doubts that a Saban coached teams would have very few losses..
 

Celtkin

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I don't believe that Griese was ever a top 5 QB, bro. He ran an offense that rarely passed the ball but it was his leadership and association with the Dolphins that catapulted him to the HOF.
 

SkapePhin

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Celtkin said:
I don't believe that Griese was ever a top 5 QB, bro. He ran an offense that rarely passed the ball but it was his leadership and association with the Dolphins that catapulted him to the HOF.

I dont think I ever really stated he had to have a Top 5 QB.. Nontheless, Shula did have the blessing of 3 HOF QBs.. Griese certainly couldnt have sucked or been inconsistent and become a Hall of Famer, could he? I never watched him, but I always heard people say he wasnt all that great, but he was always reliable.. He wouldnt blow games for you.
 

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And a QB is only as good as his coach calling the gameplan. Neither absolves the other from poor performances.

Saban still needs time obviously, but there are some glaring needs that if aren't addressed in the offseason will severely hamper his ability to prevai next season.

1. Finding a proper Offensive Coordinator so that we can make proper adjustments during a game and have success due to playcalling as opposed to only dominating with scripted playcalling.

2. Upgrade this O-Line so that our QB has time to throw the ball.

3. Upgrade our recievers so that when the ball hits them in the hands they make the catch!

4. Get at least one more big DB to help out in situations where every reciever on the opposing team is 6'4" or better.
 

SkapePhin

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Desides said:
It's amazing the length some people will go to in order to bash Culpepper.

Ya, this sure is a bash Culpepper thread... :rolleyes:

If by "bash" you mean "questioning whether he will ever become healthy enough to display his 2004 self" then I guess you could make the assertion.
 
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