A Coach is only as good as his Quarterback...

[KTOWNFINFAN]

Name some? If they didnt, they got the championship on the back of some of the greatest defenses the world has ever seen..

There is one common thread with ALL of the dynasties... Hall of Fame QB play.

Oh come on, just because they won several championships and you remember the QBs name does not make them great QBs. Terry Bradshaw was terrible. Griese was only as good as Csonka, we averaged 10 passes a game and 230 yards rushing. Gibbs won with no name QBs every time he won a championship. Tampa won with Brad Johnson, Ravens with Dilfer, the bears with nobody, the jets with freaking Namoth, who was freaking horrible except for one season..
It is more important to have leadership out of your leaders, whether they are qbs is not the issue, than it is to have the best qb in the league. We had the best qb in the league for several years and how many rings did that bring us?? Peyton is the best stat QB now and how many rings does he have??
I'm not saying it isn't important, just that it isn't EVERYTHING. Great coaches can overcome if given time. Saban will get everything together and get us in contention before too long. Whether he has what it takes to get a ring is yet to be seen, but it is possible with what we have at QB. Harrington is no worse than Dilfer, and no better than Fielder, but he is good enough that if given the right coaching and supporting cast we can win with him.

 

[Desides]

Harrington is no worse than Dilfer, and no better than Fielder, but he is good enough that if given the right coaching and supporting cast we can win with him.

Replace "Harrington" with "Feeley" and you've tapped into Dave Wannstedt's thinking.

 

[PhinGeneral]

Umm, thats my point.. A coach needs steady QB play to be successful.. All of those guys listed had that during those seasons, and the worst of the bunch had some of the greatest defenses of all time (2002 Buccs, 2000 Ravens)

Big Ben was a good QB last season, with a great D.. Why do you think Cowhrer couldnt win with Kordell?

The examples you gave were of dynasties, not of winning mere championships.

Yes, the trade for Culpepper could never materialize into anything. But at this point he should only be held accountable as the move relates to what Drew Brees does. Given where Miami drafted, there was no sure thing in the draft.
And while I preferred Brees to Culpepper back then to begin with, I'm not throwing in the towel yet on a guy who isn't fully recovered from his injury. Besides, he doesn't need to be the 2004 Duante Culpepper. He just needs to be a good Duante Culpepper, as any Saban team will always be built around a defense.

 

[Celtkin]

I dont think I ever really stated he had to have a Top 5 QB.. Nontheless, Shula did have the blessing of 3 HOF QBs.. Griese certainly couldnt have sucked or been inconsistent and become a Hall of Famer, could he? I never watched him, but I always heard people say he wasnt all that great, but he was always reliable.. He wouldnt blow games for you.

You're right, bro. That was flown after your original post.

I know that my response seemed like it was bashing your theory but that was not my intention. I was simply pointing out that being in HOF did not necessarily mean that Griese was a dynamic QB but rather that his leadership was what made him HOF material.

It was the running attack and the level-headed leadership of Griese that made the 70's Dolphins....not Bob's arm.

If he had been on any other team, I seriously question if he would have ever been more than a footnote. He and Shula made the most of the running attack that leveled defenders and ate up game clocks.

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

It's amazing the length some people will go to in order to bash Culpepper.

No you weren't reading this thread, you were reading his stats. That's what bashes him.

 

[Dolfan984]

Well if Saban gets what Daunte Culpepper is capable of, then he'll be a real good NFL coach :D

 

[Celtkin]

Oh come on, just because they won several championships and you remember the QBs name does not make them great QBs. Terry Bradshaw was terrible. Griese was only as good as Csonka, we averaged 10 passes a game and 230 yards rushing. Gibbs won with no name QBs every time he won a championship. Tampa won with Brad Johnson, Ravens with Dilfer, the bears with nobody, the jets with freaking Namoth, who was freaking horrible except for one season..
It is more important to have leadership out of your leaders, whether they are qbs is not the issue, than it is to have the best qb in the league. We had the best qb in the league for several years and how many rings did that bring us?? Peyton is the best stat QB now and how many rings does he have??
I'm not saying it isn't important, just that it isn't EVERYTHING. Great coaches can overcome if given time. Saban will get everything together and get us in contention before too long. Whether he has what it takes to get a ring is yet to be seen, but it is possible with what we have at QB. Harrington is no worse than Dilfer, and no better than Fielder, but he is good enough that if given the right coaching and supporting cast we can win with him.

Bradsaw was probably the luckiest QB to ever play the game He made some of his best passes when his body was 45 degrees relative to the horizon. Thank God he had the likes of Harris and Swann to raise his level of play.

 

[SkapePhin]

The examples you gave were of dynasties, not of winning mere championships.

Yes, the trade for Culpepper could never materialize into anything. But at this point he should only be held accountable as the move relates to what Drew Brees does. Given where Miami drafted, there was no sure thing in the draft.
And while I preferred Brees to Culpepper back then to begin with, I'm not throwing in the towel yet on a guy who isn't fully recovered from his injury. Besides, he doesn't need to be the 2004 Duante Culpepper. He just needs to be a good Duante Culpepper, as any Saban team will always be built around a defense.

The thing is, even a good Culpepper had some seriously bad, turnover bonanza games.. And often got exposed in the playoffs.. That is what worries me in regards to Culpepper. Although, he never really had a stout defense in those days, so that may be a benefit here if he ever returns to form.

 

[Dolfan984]

The thing is, even a good Culpepper had some seriously bad, turnover bonanza games.. And often got exposed in the playoffs.. That is what worries me in regards to Culpepper. Although, he never really had a stout defense in those days, so that may be a benefit here if he ever returns to form.

It's also nice to have a QB with playoff experience.

Every QB has his bad games. You just would rather him offset it with more good games. Culpepper has had more good games than bad. Having a nice defense will make it just that much better.

 

[slyfox13]

IMO, Saban is an excellent coach, but he may be done in by his personnel decision in regards to a single position. It is the position that makes good coaches legends, or good coaches failures..

The decision to trade for Culpepper may be the one decision that keeps him from building a Superbowl Champion in Miami, or the time to do it.. In the past, a coach was afforded more time and room for error.. In today's NFL, you have a short time, and if you goof at this position, you are done.

Without Brady, Bellicheck likely wouldnt have 4 rings on his hand, or even a job in Massachusetts at the moment.

Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history, yet also the benefactor of 3 consecutive Hall of Fame QBs.. Coincidence?

Unless Saban gets lucky, he might end up having to build a dynasty in some other city.. He needs either to catch lightning from some young gun in the draft, or hope for the miraculous return of the 2004 Daunte Culpepper.. If not, he will end up like every other coach without a QB.. Fired.

Sadly your right thats why Saban will be just fine with his choice of Daunte as his franchise Qb.The thing that worrys me is his choice of offensive co-ordinator.Nick bring back the running game PLEASE!!!!!!:tantrum:

 

[bluehaze]

It's also nice to have a QB with playoff experience.

Every QB has his bad games. You just would rather him offset it with more good games. Culpepper has had more good games than bad. Having a nice defense will make it just that much better.

Those 2 90+ yard drives the defense gave up yesterday sure did alot to help this offense out. :rolleyes2

 

[Eliot]

Those 2 90+ yard drives the defense gave up yesterday sure did alot to help this offense out. :rolleyes2

This was one game and they're not doing it on consistent basis. We definately have one of the better Ds in this league.

 

[PhinFan0202]

Oh come on, just because they won several championships and you remember the QBs name does not make them great QBs. Terry Bradshaw was terrible. Griese was only as good as Csonka, we averaged 10 passes a game and 230 yards rushing. Gibbs won with no name QBs every time he won a championship. Tampa won with Brad Johnson, Ravens with Dilfer, the bears with nobody, the jets with freaking Namoth, who was freaking horrible except for one season..
It is more important to have leadership out of your leaders, whether they are qbs is not the issue, than it is to have the best qb in the league. We had the best qb in the league for several years and how many rings did that bring us?? Peyton is the best stat QB now and how many rings does he have??
I'm not saying it isn't important, just that it isn't EVERYTHING. Great coaches can overcome if given time. Saban will get everything together and get us in contention before too long. Whether he has what it takes to get a ring is yet to be seen, but it is possible with what we have at QB. Harrington is no worse than Dilfer, and no better than Fielder, but he is good enough that if given the right coaching and supporting cast we can win with him.

I don't want to put down what your saying but were not winning without a good QB. Look at the Denver Broncos who had a QB that was playing decent for them the whole season them. Despite all that they went out and got a top 3 QB in the draft. They knew that despite his ability to make plays out of the pocket he crumbles during clutch times. Fact is if we want to be successfull for a long time we need to get permanent starter at the QB position.

 

[Dolfan984]

Those 2 90+ yard drives the defense gave up yesterday sure did alot to help this offense out. :rolleyes2

defense was pretty shoddy yesterday. so was joey.

they both helped the cause.

 

[Dolfan984]

This was one game and their not doing it on consistent basis. We definately have one of the better Ds in this league.

:yeahthat: the D won every single game except Detroit and they played great then too