A Coach is only as good as his Quarterback...

[Superself]

I dont think I ever really stated he had to have a Top 5 QB.. Nontheless, Shula did have the blessing of 3 HOF QBs.. Griese certainly couldnt have sucked or been inconsistent and become a Hall of Famer, could he? I never watched him, but I always heard people say he wasnt all that great, but he was always reliable.. He wouldnt blow games for you.

Well what is a 2004 Culpepper like QB if he isn't top 5??

 

[go_fins]

Well what is a 2004 Culpepper like QB if he isn't top 5??

What is a 2005 Culpepper? He was horrendous last year and the 4 games that he played this year. He's also having set backs in his knee. I really hope he can get back to some of that old form, but it's not looking so good anymore. He's been having problems with his decision making two years in a row, and now his knee keeps having set backs. I think that Saban got a lemon, and I'm not taking about Cleo. Let's face it, Saban blew it by taking Culpepper over Brees and that will set back this franchise another two years. I hope that Mr. H is patient and gives Saban the time he needs to build up this team.

 

[finfan54]

IMO, Saban is an excellent coach, but he may be done in by his personnel decision in regards to a single position. It is the position that makes good coaches legends, or good coaches failures..

The decision to trade for Culpepper may be the one decision that keeps him from building a Superbowl Champion in Miami, or the time to do it.. In the past, a coach was afforded more time and room for error.. In today's NFL, you have a short time, and if you goof at this position, you are done.

Without Brady, Bellicheck likely wouldnt have 4 rings on his hand, or even a job in Massachusetts at the moment.

Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history, yet also the benefactor of 3 consecutive Hall of Fame QBs.. Coincidence?

Unless Saban gets lucky, he might end up having to build a dynasty in some other city.. He needs either to catch lightning from some young gun in the draft, or hope for the miraculous return of the 2004 Daunte Culpepper.. If not, he will end up like every other coach without a QB.. Fired.

You know, alot of people believe this crap, but its proven time and again that super bowl teams win with guys who play within the system and do their jobs and not make mistakes.

Do you need a good QB? Of course, but you also need a top defense, an offensive line that goes after people week after week, a great RB, and some very skilled support people on special teams and WR who can make play after play. It takes all 45 guys. It also takes coaching those 45 to be the best they can be.

Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jerry Rice, and a top defense and Bill Walsh. Thats how it really goes down. If Joey H is truly our backup, then so be it, but then he cannot be the reason why we lose games when he has been a reason we win games as well. It takes a whole team.

 

[emocomputerjock]

You know, alot of people believe this crap, but its proven time and again that super bowl teams win with guys who play within the system and do their jobs and not make mistakes.

Do you need a good QB? Of course, but you also need a top defense, an offensive line that goes after people week after week, a great RB, and some very skilled support people on special teams and WR who can make play after play. It takes all 45 guys. It also takes coaching those 45 to be the best they can be.

Joe Montana had Roger Craig, Jerry Rice, and a top defense and Bill Walsh. Thats how it really goes down. If Joey H is truly our backup, then so be it, but then he cannot be the reason why we lose games when he has been a reason we win games as well. It takes a whole team.

I'm a big believer in the system, but save for the Detroit game the only reason we've been winning games is in spite of Joey and our offense. Our defense can't win every game for us, and unless we fix the offense (upgrade the line, find a kicker, get a healthy, good QB) we're not gonna go to the playoffs.

 

[Phantom]

Having a few reciever that actually get open and then catch the ball would help the qb and coach........

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

they also need a stable offensive line and a dominate defense.

 

[rick32883]

Umm, thats my point.. A coach needs steady QB play to be successful.. All of those guys listed had that during those seasons, and the worst of the bunch had some of the greatest defenses of all time (2002 Buccs, 2000 Ravens)

Big Ben was a good QB last season, with a great D.. Why do you think Cowhrer couldnt win with Kordell?

because Kordell wasn't a true QB .. how many positions did he play before he stuck with QB?!?

 

[rick32883]

I don't believe that Griese was ever a top 5 QB, bro. He ran an offense that rarely passed the ball but it was his leadership and association with the Dolphins that catapulted him to the HOF.

even so didn't griese go down after game 5 in their undefeated season .. hardly a factor at all

 

[rick32883]

this is the best post i may have ever read, the league is all about the QB now, we just need to find the right guy, this is what we get for having a marino

by the way .. when was the last time you seen a superbowl championship team without an equally balanced run game?!? .. lets not put all the blame on a qb .. pitt was a dominant team the past two seasons .. lost the bus and their 2nd best WR and where'd they go .. they still got Ben and they're failing as bad as the phins .. "aww the qb isn't performing like dan marino .. we suck" .. a balanced offense defines the greatness of a team not the qb play .. dan marino was a great qb with a lackluster run game .. what'd he do .. put up hall of fame stats and records and went home with a bare hand .. he was a superbowl performer with a great D and great HC with only a phenominal pass game and came up short every time .. i great coach is defined by his abilty to be the off-field general .. its like playing chess .. plan your next move in advance even if your previous one wasn't the greatest .. the last few games of the season will define whether Saban is a great coach after they're down and out ... not whether the QB throws 450yrds for 4 tds .. i ask you this .. which is more of a factor in our losses .. our qb not being a hall of famer or poor offensive execution and play calling?!?

 

[rick32883]

In all honesty, if I had to make the decision between a QB with a jacked up shoulder, and one with a not-so-good knee, I'd take the guy who could throw the ball instead of the guy with the damage to his throwing arm. Especially if one was more expensive than the other. I wanted Brees, but after I heard we had signed Culpepper, and why, it made sense. Honestly, Brees is a quarterback having an incredible season, and in hindsight it was a mistake to let him go. The one thing you'll never hear from any fan, and from any reporter for that matter, is that when the decision was placed before them, without the benefit of hindsight, that they'd make the same decision the Dolphins did. Get a motivated player, without an issue with his throwing arm (let's ignore the can't move in the pocket and lying about being hurt issues for a moment), and skip what would seem to be the obviously riskier move.

I wish we could have known then what we know now. Brees is a perfect fit for this offense, with his ability to play the short game like no other and our OL troubles. We don't have him though, and we have to proceed and do what's best for the teams future with what we have.

i'll jump on the breese wagon if he still has the same stats this time next season .. what ever happen to Kurt Warner?!?

 

[rick32883]

It set us back this year and it might even set us back next year because who knows when he's going to be 100%. The issue was that they didn't want to give him the amount of money he was asking for so he bolted.

wouldnt have set us back if we stuck to the plan and started harrington til DC was healthy

 

[Tailgun]

Could C-Pep end up being Saban's Fiedler?

TWO Miami coaches passing on Brees! Go figure!

Great post. Scary, but true.

I can remember years ago when Finfans watched an unknown darkhorse we were in love with on these forums slowly climb the draft boards. Following a great combine and Senior Bowl, everyone knew about the guy we wanted: Philip Rivers. It look like Pittsburgh might grab him at number 11 that year. But, as we all know, he went even earlier than that.

And it wasn't just Brees that we missed out on (twice). This past Spring, after squandering a second-round draft pick on a guy who was going to be cut by his own team anyway, we had another amazing opportunity.

In the draft, the unbelievable happened: Matt Leinart fell all the way to number 10. This pushed another great young prospect we had our eyes on out of the top 10 entirely. Sitting just one spot behind us, the Denver Broncos did what we could not do because of the Culpepper blunder. They traded one of their other picks to move up and grab the next great young passer, Jay Cutler.

I howled in impotent rage at the injustice of it all. I had spoken loudly and clearly a month before it happened that signing Daunte Culpepper would end this season before it began.

And I've heard many people say that it was better to bet on a quarterback with a bad knee than one with a bad shoulder. But that comparison is deceiving. Drew Brees had a clean bill of health from a respected surgeon. And we certainly had the money to sign him; I don't buy that as an excuse for a minute.

In actuality, Culpepper was an even bigger risk than Brees. Although he did not have a problem with his arm, he is a scrambling quarterback who is unable to read defenses from inside the pocket. Culpepper is a one-read-and-run player with poor pocket presence. Without two healthy legs, he is a far worse quarterback than many mediocre ones - including Joey Harrington.

So we have missed out on some of the best quarterback prospects in the last three years or so. I don't see anyone in the draft at this point who really stands out. And the cupboard will be bare in the free-agent market, as well.

Nick Saban's Jay Fiedler, indeed.

 

[westernnyphinfa]

Disagree with this entire thread,

If a coach is only as good as his QB then How come Tampa Bay couldn't win with Steve Young?

Its the system, along with the players and the coaching they all go hand in hand.

No need to assign blame for this lose, As an offense improvments need to happen across the board and for the first time this year I think Offensive Line has to be moved up to priority with Linebacker.

I thought Houck could coach up these guys, and he might be able to, but we have had way to many injuries and we certainly could use upgrades here.

Linebackers and Offensive lineman Top needs in 07.

(also Kicker, and possilby backup rb)

 

[zachblitz54]

I think having a great QB helps but isn't always necessary. But I also think it cuts both ways. A great QB is only as good as the offensive schemes he's ordered to run, the players surrounding him, the quality of the coaching, etc.

There have been Superbowl champs that had good but not great QB's:

Baltimore - Trent Dilfer
Tampa Bay - Brad Johnson
Washington - Mark Rypien
NY Giants - Jeff Hostetler

I could go on, but you get the idea.

I think Saban is capable of being a Superbowl coach down the road. If we make that assumption then perhaps the real question is whether we think Daunte or Joey are good enough QB's.

How about Jake Delhomme? Except for one good season, he hasn't set the world on fire either.

Not to mention the QB's who led their teams to the SB, but fell short. These guys certainly are nothing special.

-Kerry Collins
-Rich Gannon
-Drew Bledsoe
-Chris Chandler
-Neil O'Donnell
-Stan "freaking" Humphries

With a running game, good O-line, a play making D, and good coaching, the QB doesn't have to be a superstar.