A Lingering Question: Comparison of John Beck and Cleo Lemon | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

A Lingering Question: Comparison of John Beck and Cleo Lemon

MonstBlitz

MonstBlitz

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I know the John Beck vs. Draft Matt Ryan debate has been discussed ad naseum on this board but there has been one point in the whole debate that I haven't seen answered. When mentioned in other threads it is avoided like the plague.

I think it's safe for me to say that most of us can agree that Cleo Lemon played much better than John Beck last season. While both quarterbacks struggled and made many head scratching mistakes, Cleo was much better at manufacturing points.

That being said, here are two key comparisons -

Cleo Lemon

Age: 28
NFL Starts: 8
Wins: 1

John Beck

Age: 26
NFL Starts: 4
Wins: 0

The only key factor separating these two is years in the league, which I'll admit, does make a difference. But with where Beck was drafted, and the expectations surrounding him, I think it's perfectely fair to expect him to perform at least as well as a QB who has never been thought of anything more than a 3rd stringer.

The major argument for Beck to be given a fair shot as Dolphins QB is the fact that the team around him last year was devoid of talent, and any QB would struggle under those circumstances.

So my question is, if John Beck deserves a chance, why doesn't Cleo Lemon? We all watched Cleo outperform Beck by a longshot last season, and he played with the same players that Beck did for most of those starts. Many of the same people clamoring for Beck to be given a shot don't think Cleo is worth a ham sandwhich. So why is Beck considered to be any better?

IMO, the answer is that neither of these QBs is the quarterback of the future in Miami and that's why it makes perfect sense to draft Matt Ryan.
 
Cleo is trash... John beck is a much better QB, hands down. It really isnt debatable
 
I agree with all your points and have been a Lemon supporter because of what you outlined. I do not beleive that the team will be that much better next year especailly in protection of the QB. Lemon was much more mobile than Beck which was a huge difference last year. Everyone who defends Beck brings up the field conditions of those first 2 games he played in which I beleive actually helped Beck. First those field conditions slowed the game down for Beck giving him much more time to make decisions, 2nd it kept the score close and alllowed us to use our running game more which again took pressure off of Beck. I beleive you saw the real Beck as the QB when he was playing in favaorable conditions and he looked lost unitl the last qtr of of the Cincy game when they went into a prevent defense!
 
dolpns13 said:
Cleo is trash... John beck is a much better QB, hands down. It really isnt debatable
Click to expand...

Why? You're making a statement that completely defies what every Dolphins fan witnessed last season and that is Cleo Lemon playing much better than John Beck. So what makes Beck a better QB? Because he's 2 years younger? And how can you say it's not debateable? Cleo Lemon outplayed John Beck in just about every aspect of the QB postion.
 
I see it as Beck has more upside than Lemon. Even thou he didnt play very well, you can see Beck has a better arm and makes better decisions. Becks problem was more that he was thrown into a poor situation and felt the weight of the organization on his shoulders at that time. Thats not good for a rookie who only got about a week with the first team before his first start.
I think with a year under his belt and better coaching that he will excel when given the chance.
 
that is the most alarming thing about beck, the fact that he got grossly outplayed by a limited quaterback isn't very good.
 
That's like comparing prunes to prunes...

Lemon has issues with his accuracy, and he doesn't respond well to pressure. He makes poor decisions, but not with where he throws the ball which is what they usually say about QB's, but poor decisions with how he runs, when he runs and when he runs out of bounds.

He seems to always hesitate before running when there is yardage that he could get.

Beck was disappointing to me. He was highly spoken of by our coaches, yet he didn't have any good games, he never really had any good drives.

The best pass he threw IMO was the one that was picked off. He is supposed to have talent and potential, but it never really showed up. He fumbled when he wasn't touched. I watched 3 different rookie QB's play and he was by far the least impressive. I don't want to hear about how poor the team was, I'm talking about the things that were in his control...
 
Can we all remember what Bill Parcells said about Lemon and Beck not long after he arrived? I believe he was asked what he tought about Beck and Lemon and his response was something like;
"I liked what I saw in Beck, not so much the other guy".
I think that about says it all since none of our opinions count for much and I think Parcell's opinion carries a lot of weight with the Dolphin's future right now.
 
i agree that cleo sucks, but why the hell couldn't beck beat him out? the 40th pick in the draft should outplay someone like lemon.
 
OneHondo said:
Can we all remember what Bill Parcells said about Lemon and Beck not long after he arrived? I believe he was asked what he tought about Beck and Lemon and his response was something like;
"I liked what I saw in Beck, not so much the other guy".
I think that about says it all since none of our opinions count for much and I think Parcell's opinion carries a lot of weight with the Dolphin's future right now.
Click to expand...
parcells never said that he hasn't spoken to the media since he got the phins job
 
MonstBlitz said:
I know the John Beck vs. Draft Matt Ryan debate has been discussed ad naseum on this board but there has been one point in the whole debate that I haven't seen answered. When mentioned in other threads it is avoided like the plague.

I think it's safe for me to say that most of us can agree that Cleo Lemon played much better than John Beck last season. While both quarterbacks struggled and made many head scratching mistakes, Cleo was much better at manufacturing points.

That being said, here are two key comparisons -

Cleo Lemon

Age: 28
NFL Starts: 8
Wins: 1

John Beck

Age: 26
NFL Starts: 4
Wins: 0

The only key factor separating these two is years in the league, which I'll admit, does make a difference. But with where Beck was drafted, and the expectations surrounding him, I think it's perfectely fair to expect him to perform at least as well as a QB who has never been thought of anything more than a 3rd stringer.

The major argument for Beck to be given a fair shot as Dolphins QB is the fact that the team around him last year was devoid of talent, and any QB would struggle under those circumstances.

So my question is, if John Beck deserves a chance, why doesn't Cleo Lemon? We all watched Cleo outperform Beck by a longshot last season, and he played with the same players that Beck did for most of those starts. Many of the same people clamoring for Beck to be given a shot don't think Cleo is worth a ham sandwhich. So why is Beck considered to be any better?

IMO, the answer is that neither of these QBs is the quarterback of the future in Miami and that's why it makes perfect sense to draft Matt Ryan.
Click to expand...

Great post. Cleo isnt worth a ham sandwich. Like Ive been saying, what spoke volumes to me was the utter relief on the faces and body language of the players when Cam decided to put Cleo back in as he ran into the huddle. They happened to score on that play too. The players right then and there unanomously said with their body launguage that they werent confident in John Beck at all right now.

Was I the only person on the board that caught that? I know I wasnt the only person. The annalyst working the game pointed it out too, and before the scoring play occoured. You could see it on guys faces in the huddle and the way they clapped and came out of the huddle and walked to the line said alot. They were ready to go now that they had a QB in there who could at least threaten to score.

Beck was lost last year. No reason to just give up on him, but certainly no reason to believe he will be ready to start this year. And no reason to be highly optomistic that he will be a franchise QB. No reason to want to pass on selecting a guy who is considered a franchise QB in the draft when you have the opportunity to select one.
 
MonstBlitz said:
Why? You're making a statement that completely defies what every Dolphins fan witnessed last season and that is Cleo Lemon playing much better than John Beck. So what makes Beck a better QB? Because he's 2 years younger? And how can you say it's not debateable? Cleo Lemon outplayed John Beck in just about every aspect of the QB postion.
Click to expand...

Ok... Why did Cleo out play John Beck? What was the one variable that was different in the games Beck played compared to the games Lime played in?

Besides the fact that Beck has far better accuracy, and a much much better decision maker!
 
MonstBlitz said:
I know the John Beck vs. Draft Matt Ryan debate has been discussed ad naseum on this board but there has been one point in the whole debate that I haven't seen answered. When mentioned in other threads it is avoided like the plague.

I think it's safe for me to say that most of us can agree that Cleo Lemon played much better than John Beck last season. While both quarterbacks struggled and made many head scratching mistakes, Cleo was much better at manufacturing points.

That being said, here are two key comparisons -

Cleo Lemon

Age: 28
NFL Starts: 8
Wins: 1

John Beck

Age: 26
NFL Starts: 4
Wins: 0

The only key factor separating these two is years in the league, which I'll admit, does make a difference. But with where Beck was drafted, and the expectations surrounding him, I think it's perfectely fair to expect him to perform at least as well as a QB who has never been thought of anything more than a 3rd stringer.

The major argument for Beck to be given a fair shot as Dolphins QB is the fact that the team around him last year was devoid of talent, and any QB would struggle under those circumstances.

So my question is, if John Beck deserves a chance, why doesn't Cleo Lemon? We all watched Cleo outperform Beck by a longshot last season, and he played with the same players that Beck did for most of those starts. Many of the same people clamoring for Beck to be given a shot don't think Cleo is worth a ham sandwhich. So why is Beck considered to be any better?

IMO, the answer is that neither of these QBs is the quarterback of the future in Miami and that's why it makes perfect sense to draft Matt Ryan.
Click to expand...

Are you blitzkrieg? He was a Cleo Man Lover.
 
dolpns13 said:
Ok... Why did Cleo out play John Beck? What was the one variable that was different in the games Beck played compared to the games Lime played in?

Besides the fact that Beck has far better accuracy, and a much much better decision maker!
Click to expand...

Only factoring in the games that they played the entire game, the team scored an average of 19.6 ppg with Cleo at the helm and 6.6 ppg with Beck at the helm. If that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about which QB played better, then I'm not sure what else to say.

Another scary statistic, take away the defensive TD and kick return for a TD from Beck's numbers and he clocks in at a whopping 3 points per game.
 
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