A Look into a Potential Ndamukong Suh contract with the Dolphins. | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

A Look into a Potential Ndamukong Suh contract with the Dolphins.

lurking said:
I think what people are forgetting, is that Wallace needs somebody's help to be great. Suh needs nobody....
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I don't agree with this premise. All players even the great Suh needs ten other players around him to make a solid defense.
 
eric1317 said:
I don't agree with this premise. All players even the great Suh needs ten other players around him to make a solid defense.
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Wallace has to have the ball thrown or handed to him. I think his premise is dead on accurate.
 
eric1317 said:
Wallace was a 4 year veteran when we signed him with a couple of 1200 yard seasons under his belt. I guess I wasn't aware of the famous 5 year receiver step where we see a dramatic increase in production. Now that I think of it, it is often the fifth year in the league when all the great receivers take off.

This very thread shows a hypothetical 20 plus million cap number for 2nd and 3rd years of the contract. While this may be manageable like assuming large amounts of credit card debt it is not desirable. The Saints cap situation(20 mil over the cap) is manageable but not desirable.
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So...you are agreeing that we were banking on Wallace's potential? You'll be hard-pressed to find anybody who thought Wallace was a finished product and didn't have severe deficiencies in his game. You'd be equally hard-pressed to find anybody who didn't think we overpaid for somebody who hadn't lived up to his potential yet. Again, not comparable to a defensive player who has been dominant in his position every single year, including college. Wallace was never top three in his position, let alone the entire offense. Suh is easily top 2 in his position (McCoy) and in the conversation for top three defensively overall. Please, get out of here with that asinine comparison of the two.

Fitting the bulk of the contract into year two is fantastic, because it's where we can best manage it with all the dead weight gone. That's been clearly explained multiple times in multiple threads. You really have nothing to stand on there. Year three is a big impact, but if we draft well, that won't matter because we'll have young talent being groomed all around a top NFL star. If we don't draft well, well, it wouldn't matter if we had Suh or not (see the past thirty years).

The Saints are also not comparable. They paid heavily for an aging QB, not a top defensive player in his prime.

Again, the credit card debt makes zero sense because there is no benefit to it. A better comparison is investing in home improvement increasing the value of your house. Suh greatly increases the value of this team, with value meaning competitive advantage.
 
ohall said:
Wallace has to have the ball thrown or handed to him. I think his premise is dead on accurate.
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What good is Suh if all teams need to do is run off tackle because the DE's can't set the edge, or if CB can't cover quick slants or if all opponents need to do is roll their qb's out to bye a little time. Wallace relies on Tannehill to get him the ball just as Tannehill relies on the o-line to block. My whole point was that regardless of position, football is the ultimate team sport. 11 guys working as one. When you lose sight of that the team as a whole struggles. So even the great Suh relies on teammates cover WR, fill running lanes. I get that he's a disruptive player but even paired with one of the top playmakers in football(megaton) they were not serious contenders for the Super Bowl last year.
 
eric1317 said:
I think that is the issue. Wallace isn't worth 2 years 5 million and he was suppose to do a lot of the things for this offense that people are claiming suh will do for our D.
Wallace will make our passing game more dynamic, makes other receivers better, opens up running lanes. He'll make us a playoff team. Fast forward to 2015 and Suh fixes our running game by eating up blockers, improves passing game by caving in pocket, makes everyone on D better just by being super human. Some us think a better approach to building a football team is actually building a team, not adding a couple of saviors. For me the people who say suh will have no impact on our cap situation in the future are the same guys that go out and buy a fancy car. or rack up debt on the cards. They can afford it. All they have to do is stop contributing to their 401k. It's not an approach that I would take.


"He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n" Bum Phillips said this about our very own Don Shula. This idea that you can utilize your talent better than the other guy seems to be a common theme among the winners in the NFL. The guys that don't think that way seem to be the guys that sign bust after bust.
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Wallace was a reach, Suh is as close to a sure thing as we will ever see
 
eric1317 said:
What good is Suh if all teams need to do is run off tackle because the DE's can't set the edge, or if CB can't cover quick slants or if all opponents need to do is roll their qb's out to bye a little time. Wallace relies on Tannehill to get him the ball just as Tannehill relies on the o-line to block. My whole point was that regardless of position, football is the ultimate team sport. 11 guys working as one. When you lose sight of that the team as a whole struggles. So even the great Suh relies on teammates cover WR, fill running lanes. I get that he's a disruptive player but even paired with one of the top playmakers in football(megaton) they were not serious contenders for the Super Bowl last year.
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you're correct... but once again you have to start somewhere to fix.

remember the gaping holes we constantly had for average RBs to look like pro bowlers against us? remember our disappearance of a d-line (LBs and overall defense) throughout the second half of the season the past few years? remember our defense rarely playing solid to good in many 4th quarters?

now picture signing Suh (and even hopefully Kendricks in draft) and picture the middle of our defense becoming sound and solid... its a step in the right direction. Jenkins looked pretty nice i nhis first year last year, and Misi can be moved back to his OLB spot... we add depth, and pray for health... we have a unit that should be vast improved over a couple years!!! this is step one for season 2015... more steps will follow for this season and 2016...

hopefully there is a vision with this with the men in the offices.
 
Gonzo said:
So...you are agreeing that we were banking on Wallace's potential? You'll be hard-pressed to find anybody who thought Wallace was a finished product and didn't have severe deficiencies in his game. You'd be equally hard-pressed to find anybody who didn't think we overpaid for somebody who hadn't lived up to his potential yet. Again, not comparable to a defensive player who has been dominant in his position every single year, including college. Wallace was never top three in his position, let alone the entire offense. Suh is easily top 2 in his position (McCoy) and in the conversation for top three defensively overall. Please, get out of here with that asinine comparison of the two.

Fitting the bulk of the contract into year two is fantastic, because it's where we can best manage it with all the dead weight gone. That's been clearly explained multiple times in multiple threads. You really have nothing to stand on there. Year three is a big impact, but if we draft well, that won't matter because we'll have young talent being groomed all around a top NFL star. If we don't draft well, well, it wouldn't matter if we had Suh or not (see the past thirty years).

The Saints are also not comparable. They paid heavily for an aging QB, not a top defensive player in his prime.

Again, the credit card debt makes zero sense because there is no benefit to it. A better comparison is investing in home improvement increasing the value of your house. Suh greatly increases the value of this team, with value meaning competitive advantage.
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Really liked the home improvement comparison, and will steal it for you. :)

The bottom line is that next year we will have two tons of cap space, and the cap will go up $10M each of the next 2 years. By 2017 RT and Suh will likely cost around $33M on a $160M cap. and no one can come up with any player/players where the money would be better spent. There are no better options.
 
Daytona Fin said:
Adam Schefter on NFL LIVE believes that Ndamukong Suh will be become the "The highest paid defensive player in NFL history"
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I think so, it's a obvious opinion to have. But ppl will complain he's not as good as JJ Watt, which I agree with. But if Suh was to have received an extension before JJ last year, JJ would be the highest paid D player in the NFL this FA class. It's all about the timing of things. After this year Suh's contract will seem like a bargain. The NFL is in the middle of another growth period.
 
Gonzo said:
So...you are agreeing that we were banking on Wallace's potential? You'll be hard-pressed to find anybody who thought Wallace was a finished product and didn't have severe deficiencies in his game. You'd be equally hard-pressed to find anybody who didn't think we overpaid for somebody who hadn't lived up to his potential yet. Again, not comparable to a defensive player who has been dominant in his position every single year, including college. Wallace was never top three in his position, let alone the entire offense. Suh is easily top 2 in his position (McCoy) and in the conversation for top three defensively overall. Please, get out of here with that asinine comparison of the two.

Fitting the bulk of the contract into year two is fantastic, because it's where we can best manage it with all the dead weight gone. That's been clearly explained multiple times in multiple threads. You really have nothing to stand on there. Year three is a big impact, but if we draft well, that won't matter because we'll have young talent being groomed all around a top NFL star. If we don't draft well, well, it wouldn't matter if we had Suh or not (see the past thirty years).

The Saints are also not comparable. They paid heavily for an aging QB, not a top defensive player in his prime.

Again, the credit card debt makes zero sense because there is no benefit to it. A better comparison is investing in home improvement increasing the value of your house. Suh greatly increases the value of this team, with value meaning competitive advantage.
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I was being facetious. A couple years ago everyone on this board was talking about getting one of the best WR in the league and the money was no big deal. I don't know you personally but I suspect you are currently engaging in revisionist history. For myself I was opposed to the Wallace signing and while there are some differences with Suh, his past performance is no guarantee of future performance especially what you are trying to project out 3 or 4 years. Injuries are a routine occurrence in the NFL and while I can't tell the future i'd be willing to bet that we'll see a substantial decline in Suh's performance over the next several years especially if he continues to see as many snaps as he has over the first few years of his career.
 
eric1317 said:
I was being facetious. A couple years ago everyone on this board was talking about getting one of the best WR in the league and the money was no big deal. I don't know you personally but I suspect you are currently engaging in revisionist history. For myself I was opposed to the Wallace signing and while there are some differences with Suh, his past performance is no guarantee of future performance especially what you are trying to project out 3 or 4 years. Injuries are a routine occurrence in the NFL and while I can't tell the future i'd be willing to bet that we'll see a substantial decline in Suh's performance over the next several years especially if he continues to see as many snaps as he has over the first few years of his career.
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Simple question. Where would you rather spend the money. It has to be spent by the new CBA.
 
Attempting to draw parallels between Suh and Mike Wallace is so stupid it's not even worth addressing. Cmon.

Suh is going to Canton when his career is over. Mike Wallace was an overpaid one trick pony from day 1.
 
eric1317 said:
I don't agree with this premise. All players even the great Suh needs ten other players around him to make a solid defense.
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No Shat. I'll simplify it for you. Suh is great. Wallace not great. Did you get it that time.
 
Yessir said:
Attempting to draw parallels between Suh and Mike Wallace is so stupid it's not even worth addressing. Cmon.

Suh is going to Canton when his career is over. Mike Wallace was an overpaid one trick pony from day 1.
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Completely agree! Its kind of frustrating TBH... What some people dont get is that the statement "dont overpay in FA" was born because most of the times, the BPA in FA are flawed talent that get premium contracts. Suh is not flawed talent, he's HOF talent... Thats a big ****ing difference...
 
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