A Word Of Caution To Those That Want To Lose So We Can Blow It Up And Start Over, Again! | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

A Word Of Caution To Those That Want To Lose So We Can Blow It Up And Start Over, Again!

phinsforlife

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Many want to lose, with the hope that the Dolphins will blow this thing up and start all over. Blow it up means different things to different people: GM, coach, all of it. I am very sympathetic to the notion. But every time I think about doing it, I need a reality check. Also, if it happens again, this time it will really hurt. All the other times, it seemed obvious, and felt like we were starting fresh. This time, for the first time in 20 plus years, it felt like we were finally headed in the right direction. Heck, the first half of last year, we were the apple of the NFL’s eyes. For the first time in a long time, there were real expectations.

Here is the reality check. Losing and blowing things up does not work. That is what we have done for the last 24 years. Losing begets more losing. That is what loser franchises are. Losing never really solves anything, even when you get lucky. The Colts sucked for Luck, but since they are a loser franchise, they ran a near generational QB right out of the league. It looked good for the Bengals with Burrow for a bit, but they are one more loser franchise with a loser owner that cheaps out on talent, and that thing has already been ruined, despite how awesome Burrow is. The Jaguars got their guy in Trevor Lawrence, and look where they are. Look at the Jets, they always stink, and we saw once again last Sunday that loser teams find ways to lose. Pittsburgh on the other hand, stabile, and almost always good.

I feel like all we have done is blown it up and gone 4-13 in the process, only to be able to go 9-8 for a year or two, and then right back to 4-13, wash rinse repeat. What is even the point of the whole exercise? Not that 9-8 is great, but I would rather go 9-8 all of the time, then go 4-13 just to return to 9-8!

Blowing it up is a bet on Ross. How has that worked out for the last 24 years? I judge owners primarily based on two things: how much money they spend, and how good are the people they hire. Ross very good at the first, very bad at the 2nd. Sure there are other nuances, like do they meddle, for example. But if the owner hires good people, that owner will not be meddling because he doesn’t need to and good people do not tolerate being meddled with in a significant fashion.

If we are forced to blow it up again, why is anyone certain it will turn out better this time around? If Grier goes, but McDaniel stays, are we going to do that whole thing again where we force a coach on a GM? Like or hate McDaniel, it is undeniable that he was very good for Tua. Both in terms of rebuilding his confidence, and designing a system that plays to Tua’s strengths. Are we going to scrap all of that too? And if so, any idea how it might look with an entirely new set of offensive coaches?

Who good would even take the GM job here now? Looking at the age of the roster, and cap situation, it is not a compelling situation to step into. I think any good GM would want a 5-7 year contract, with the full ability to rip the whole thing apart and start over if he wants to. But I doubt Ross would be willing to do that at his age, and go through this all over again, and eat a ton of money in the process to do it. Then, how many good GMs are there? 5-10, at most? And those guys already have jobs. We will have to bet on one more unknown, or one more retread. We probably end up with another mediocre GM in a hybrid compromise situation with the roster (no full tear down and rebuild), likely with an inherited coach as well.

Assuming it ends up here, I guess you could say, what the heck, it is worth a shot, no way it can be any worse than Grier. Probably true, although I wouldn’t underestimate the Dolphins ability to do worse. But is this anything to get really excited about either?

I feel like we are an organization on a hamster wheel. Losing sadly does not solve problems. Only good execution does.

Late edit: Green Bay is another great example of what great execution is. They went from Favre to Rodgers to Jordan Love without skipping a beat (while it took us tanking and 20 years to find one QB). They didn't have to tank to do it either. Competitive and going to the playoffs the whole time, for the most part. Love has the same contract as Tua, but Green Bay still has a ton of cap space and the youngest roster in the league. This is what being well run is.
 
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I agree with some of it but I don’t think we have “blown” it up like you think. We need to wipe from top to bottom. The culture here is not right and keeping anyone who has control of roster / coaching / scouting / medical needs changed.

We have over the years tweaked things but kept key players in bad positions. When I root for change it’s all the above. Does it mean we will be successful? Nope but at least they publically address the we’re not tolerating this behavior and performance.
 
We went from 9-8 in 2022 to being 11-6 in 2023 and blowing the division lead we never should have lost. A lot of people here naturally blamed Tua for that but I believed it was over-all team injuries, and I definitely still do.

If Tua doesn't get hurt this year we are likely trending towards more 11-6 than 9-8. Do you blow up a team that goes 11-6 two years in a row? I don't think anyone would, you'd just tweak it to try and make it better.

Only caveat to all of this is we are an old team and time is running out. My guess is we get one, possibly two more productive years out of this roster and hope we draft well with the 9 or 10 picks we have this draft.
 
Many want to lose, with the hope that the Dolphins will blow this thing up and start all over. Blow it up means different things to different people: GM, coach, all of it. I am very sympathetic to the notion. But every time I think about doing it, I need a reality check. Also, if it happens again, this time it will really hurt. All the other times, it seemed obvious, and felt like we were starting fresh. This time, for the first time in 20 plus years, it felt like we were finally headed in the right direction. Heck, the first half of last year, we were the apple of the NFL’s eyes. For the first time in a long time, there were real expectations.

Here is the reality check. Losing and blowing things up does not work. That is what we have done for the last 24 years. Losing begets more losing. That is what loser franchises are. Losing never really solves anything, even when you get lucky. The Colts sucked for Luck, but since they are a loser franchise, they ran a near generational QB right out of the league. It looked good for the Bengals with Burrow for a bit, but they are one more loser franchise with a loser owner that cheaps out on talent, and that thing has already been ruined, despite how awesome Burrow is. The Jaguars got their guy in Trevor Lawrence, and look where they are. Look at the Jets, they always stink, and we saw once again last Sunday that loser teams find ways to lose. Pittsburgh on the other hand, stabile, and almost always good.

I feel like all we have done is blown it up and gone 4-13 in the process, only to be able to go 9-8 for a year or two, and then right back to 4-13, wash rinse repeat. What is even the point of the whole exercise? Not that 9-8 is great, but I would rather go 9-8 all of the time, then go 4-13 just to return to 9-8!

Blowing it up is a bet on Ross. How has that worked out for the last 24 years? I judge owners primarily based on two things: how much money they spend, and how good are the people they hire. Ross very good at the first, very bad at the 2nd. Sure there are other nuances, like do they meddle, for example. But if the owner hires good people, that owner will not be meddling because he doesn’t need to and good people do not tolerate being meddled with in a significant fashion.

If we are forced to blow it up again, why is anyone certain it will turn out better this time around? If Grier goes, but McDaniel stays, are we going to do that whole thing again where we force a coach on a GM? Like or hate McDaniel, it is undeniable that he was very good for Tua. Both in terms of rebuilding his confidence, and designing a system that plays to Tua’s strengths. Are we going to scrap all of that too? And if so, any idea how it might look with an entirely new set of offensive coaches?

Who good would even take the GM job here now? Looking at the age of the roster, and cap situation, it is not a compelling situation to step into. I think any good GM would want a 5-7 year contract, with the full ability to rip the whole thing apart and start over if he wants to. But I doubt Ross would be willing to do that at his age, and go through this all over again, and eat a ton of money in the process to do it. Then, how many good GMs are there? 5-10, at most? And those guys already have jobs. We will have to bet on one more unknown, or one more retread. We probably end up with another mediocre GM in a hybrid compromise situation with the roster (no full tear down and rebuild), likely with an inherited coach as well.

Assuming it ends up here, I guess you could say, what the heck, it is worth a shot, no way it can be any worse than Grier. Probably true, although I wouldn’t underestimate the Dolphins ability to do worse. But is this anything to get really excited about either?

I feel like we are an organization on a hamster wheel. Losing sadly does not solve problems. Only good execution does.
I agree.
Let's start with all the "Lemmings". - LOL
 
I agree with some of it but I don’t think we have “blown” it up like you think. We need to wipe from top to bottom. The culture here is not right and keeping anyone who has control of roster / coaching / scouting / medical needs changed.

We have over the years tweaked things but kept key players in bad positions. When I root for change it’s all the above. Does it mean we will be successful? Nope but at least they publically address the we’re not tolerating this behavior and performance.

"Self Contradiction Alert" - LOL
The beatings will continue until morale improves. - LOL

Can it get "dumber" than this?
I hope we don't have to find out. - LOL
 
Old? We have some who are really old, Campbell Poyer, Armstead, Mostert, Hill, and OBJ. We have some mid's, Jonnu, Brewer, Ogbah, Fuller, and Ramsey. All are mostly starters with contracts that are either team friendly or set to expire soon. Hill and Ramsey are the outliers, their contracts have been extended and are a cause for concern.
We do have a lot of young talent in the pipeline though not enough.
 
Old? We have some who are really old, Campbell Poyer, Armstead, Mostert, Hill, and OBJ. We have some mid's, Jonnu, Brewer, Ogbah, Fuller, and Ramsey. All are mostly starters with contracts that are either team friendly or set to expire soon. Hill and Ramsey are the outliers, their contracts have been extended and are a cause for concern.
We do have a lot of young talent in the pipeline though not enough.
we actually have the oldest roster in the league
 
"Self Contradiction Alert" - LOL
The beatings will continue until morale improves. - LOL

Can it get "dumber" than this?
I hope we don't have to find out. - LOL
I believe you misunderstood his point.

Not that I agree with it, but it isn't an outrageous premise. Insulting what you don't understand just for the sake of attempted humor, kind of puts the clown shoes on the other foot.

Is it necessary to always be so condescending?
 
we actually have the oldest roster in the league
True, for now. I only expect Hill back out of the first group, although Campbell may return. In the second group, I don't expect Ogbah, and possibly Fuller to return. We have some age on the OL and DL that I didn't mention that will not be back. With the draft choices and UDFA's we will sign, we should return to mid pack in the age category.
 
I believe you misunderstood his point.

Not that I agree with it, but it isn't an outrageous premise. Insulting what you don't understand just for the sake of attempted humor, kind of puts the clown shoes on the other foot.

Is it necessary to always be so condescending?
Nice try, but I believe you "mis-read" my response,

My 1st line was in reference to the 1st line of bolded text in the questionable post.
My second line was in reference to the 2nd line of bolded text in the questionable post.

Do you see it now?
If not, there is nothing more I can tell you.
 
Tua isn't going anywhere. If he's here, so is McDaniel. However, that doesn't mean we can't change the GM and try and change the culture. Grier has had his shot. It hasn't worked. Let's try someone new and see if they know what the **** they are doing.
 
Nice try, but I believe you "mis-read" my response,

My 1st line was in reference to the 1st line of bolded text in the questionable post.
My second line was in reference to the 2nd line of bolded text in the questionable post.

Do you see it now?
If not, there is nothing more I can tell you.
No, I didn't misread your post. I stand by what I said. Not worth explaining if you don't see it. Not a huge deal in the context of the discussion.

Do you believe your response was not condescending?
 
Blowing it up is what people talk about when they need the NFL Season to be a year-round thing.

I don't want to live in a world where I need to care deeply about what April brings because it's the high point of my team's year.

I want a culture that rewards winning and leadership that makes smart decisions. You have those 2 things and don't need to tank, lose, or blow up anything.
 
I don't think Ross would blow it up at his age no matter how this season ends.

Having Ross as an owner is both a blessing and a curse. He will do anything financially to win but he doesn't know how to hire the right people.

I doubt he fires Grier and would be shocked if he fires McDaniel at least for another year or two.

Blowing up the roster really makes no sense at this point. All that would happen is that we have a lot of dead money on our cap. Why would we do that when we have Tua in his prime?

There are going to be several new players here next year no matter what we do. Turnover from year to year is the nature of the NFL.

I would fire Grier if I was Ross, because I don't think he has done a good job of roster construction and he has had a long enough time to do it.

I want a new approach to team building since Grier's way has failed. There is no guarantee the GM we hire would be better but if we stick with Grier, what evidence is there to suggest the results will change?

I would interview some of the assistant GM's of some of the best GM's in the NFL for the position. Then decide which one I feel is the best.
 
Tua isn't going anywhere. If he's here, so is McDaniel. However, that doesn't mean we can't change the GM and try and change the culture. Grier has had his shot. It hasn't worked. Let's try someone new and see if they know what the **** they are doing.
The problem with that is forced marriages rarely work. A new GM might not want to keep McDaniel as the head coach.
 
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