About Ginn in the 1st round... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

About Ginn in the 1st round...

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The greatest WR of all time, Jerry Rice, ran a 4.6 40 yard dash. Our 1st round flop and pick in 1991, WR Randall "Thrill" Hill, ran a 4.2 40. Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.63. Chad Johnson ran a 4.57. Anquan Boldin ran a 4.72. Chad Jackson was the fastest player in last years draft, yet had guys like Jabaar Gaffney, Reche Caldwell, and an aging Troy Brown start above him.
Ted Ginn is just another Sinorice Moss or Troy Williamson. Insane speed, shifty guy, but not an NFL WR. Everyone is on this guys jock for one reason, and that's because of his speed. If you watch his highlights at http://youtube.com/watch?v=TApPxbmGzP4 , clearly most of them are kick or punt return highlights.
Even worse, investing in WR in the 1st round has notoriously and traditionally been one of the worst ways to spend one's first round pick. http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=776&Category=11

Marvin Harrison is the rare WR who was the one of the fastest players in his draft to become a superstar. Yet, even though he doesn't have anywhere close to the same speed today, he is still elite. Ginn is considered a sloppy route runner, with average hands, but "tremendous upside". Harrison is the master of precision and mastering his craft, and it's his hands and route running that made him and have kept him elite... again, not pure speed.

There are some WR's who have run at the top of their class for 40 times with times in the 4.3's... such as Chambers, Evans, and Santana Moss. But who would you take, those speed guys whom are very good, or the likes of "slower" dudes like Jerry Rice, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Anquin Boldin, Laveraneus Coles, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, etc? It's all about football smarts, football ability, route running, hands, etc... not simple, blazing speed. Think Steve Largent, one of the best WR's of all time. Hands, heart, route-running. Ginn is simply too big a risk. Unless Calvin Johnson falls, I say pass on WR. But if forced to choose between Jarrett or Ginn, I go with Jarrett.
Consider the following history of 40 times, which I could only find reliable info from 1999 to date. It is a list of all 1st rd picks from the last year, along with some stars from latter rounds. Very few pure speedsters make NFL stars. I consider Ginn to be most similar to Troy Williamson. Read the bio on Williamson, again, eerily similar to Ginns profile. Anyway:

1996-Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Glenn, Eddie Kennison, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, Terrell Owens* (3rd rd).
1997-Ike Hilliard, Yatil Green, Reidel Anthony, Rae Carruth
1998-Kevin Dyson, Randy Moss, Marcus Nash
1999-Torry Holt 4.44, David Boston 4.47, Troy Edwards 4.57. *Fastest times: 4.24 Rondel Menendez, and 4.33 Karsten Bailey.
2000-Peter Warrick 4.48, Plaxico Burress 4.6, Travis Taylor 4.4, Sylvester Morris 4.61, R Jay Soward 4.37, Laveranues Coles 4.47* (3rd rd), Darrell Jackson 4.58* (3rd rd). *Fastest times: 4.35 Chris Cole, 4.37 R Jay Soward.
2001-David Terrell 4.43, Koren Robinson 4.61, Rod Gardner 4.48, Santana Moss 4.31, Freddie Mitchell 4.46, Reggie Wayne 4.45, Chad Johnson 4.57* (2nd rd), Steve Smith 4.41* (3rd rd). *Fastest times: 4.31 Santana Moss, 4.33 Chris Chambers.
2002-Donte Stallworth 4.48, Ashley Lelie 4.35, Javon Walker 4.38. *Fastest times: 4.31 Aaron Lockett, 4.32 Tim Carter.
2003-Charles Rogers 4.4, Andre Johnson 4.4, Bryant Johnson 4.57, Anquan Boldin 4.72* (2nd rd). *Fastest times: 4.34 Tyrone Calico, 4.38 Bethel Johnson.
2004-Larry Fitzgerald 4.63, Roy Williams 4.48, Reggie Williams 4.62, Michael Clayton 4.6, Michael Jenkins 4.6, Rashaun Woods 4.47. *Fastest times: 4.33 Carlos Francis, 4.36 Drew Carter.
2005-Braylon Edwards 4.45, Troy Williamson 4.32, Mike Williams 4.56, Matt Jones 4.42, Mark Clayton 4.4, Roddy White 4.47. *Fastest players: 4.28 Jerome Mathis, 4.32 Troy Williamson.
2006-Santonio Holmes 4.35, Marques Colston 4.5* (7th rd). *Fastest times: 4.32 Chad Jackson, 4.34 Willie Reid.
[FONT=&quot](Mostly found on NFLdraftscout.com)
Please, just say NO to Ginn! :dolphins:
Thoughts?
[/FONT]
 
Why do you compare Ginn to Sinorice Moss? Why not compare him to some of the other smaller fast receivers like Santana Moss or Steve Smith? Or he might excel in the return game ala D. Hall who knows? There are only a few guys that I like at our position and Ginn is one of them because he's a receiver who stretches the field and has an impact in the return game.
 
nice post but i still want him .... speed is speed and hes only been a reciever for only two years so u cant really say much about him other then hes still developing his touch.
 
Yes, that was my exact argument. Anyone fast sucks. Great post. :shakeno:

Your entire post is based on NFL WR's 40 times. Your argument for not taking Ginn is because of his 40 time. So before you go shaking your head, know what you're talking about.
 
Why do you compare Ginn to Sinorice Moss? Why not compare him to some of the other smaller fast receivers like Santana Moss or Steve Smith? Or he might excel in the return game ala D. Hall who knows? There are only a few guys that I like at our position and Ginn is one of them because he's a receiver who stretches the field and has an impact in the return game.
No, I was saying the likelihood of his becoming as good of those guys is incredibly small. Ginn's speed is why everyone loves him. Watch his highlights, they are mostly punt and kick returns. You don't spend the #9 pick on a kick returner. Chamber is just as fast as Ginn with his 4.3 40 time. But clearly that speed doesn't always translate to becoming a Steve Smith or Marvin Harrison. We have greater needs. I'd like Ginn at maybe the bottom 1/3 of the 1st round... but not at the #9. WR position as it is, is an incredible risk in rd 1 (see previous links). Especially drafting an unpolished WR with average hands as Ginn, whose main positives are he is ridiculously fast and shifty... in the NFL that speed will not translate into as much of an asset. EVERYone is fast in the NFL.
 
Your entire post is based on NFL WR's 40 times. Your argument for not taking Ginn is because of his 40 time. So before you go shaking your head, know what you're talking about.
:shakeno:No, I'm saying that JUST because someone is fast, doesn't mean they're worth the #9. Why does everyone love Ginn? Because of his Devin Hester, Dante Hall type of highlights... his SPEED.
We have much greater needs, than the luxury of drafting a kick returner with our 1st rounder.:shakeno:
 
TMNY99,

you need to change the paragraph at the bottom or your sig. he may be the least paid HC, but barry switzer for one made the playoffs his first three seasons, winning the SB in his second season (95'). sorry to call you on it but if you put EVER then you should be right about your info
 
So because he's fast, he sucks?

speed is nice.....for a punt returner, but to be a WR in the NFL you have to be aggresive and able to jump up and go after the ball, like Steve Smith with the panthers, like Chad Johnson with the Bengals, both are very aggresive, and Ted Ginn is not that guy!
 
The greatest WR of all time, Jerry Rice, ran a 4.6 40 yard dash. Our 1st round flop and pick in 1991, WR Randall "Thrill" Hill, ran a 4.2 40. Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.63. Chad Johnson ran a 4.57. Anquan Boldin ran a 4.72. Chad Jackson was the fastest player in last years draft, yet had guys like Jabaar Gaffney, Reche Caldwell, and an aging Troy Brown start above him.
Ted Ginn is just another Sinorice Moss or Troy Williamson. Insane speed, shifty guy, but not an NFL WR. Everyone is on this guys jock for one reason, and that's because of his speed. If you watch his highlights at http://youtube.com/watch?v=TApPxbmGzP4 , clearly most of them are kick or punt return highlights.
Even worse, investing in WR in the 1st round has notoriously and traditionally been one of the worst ways to spend one's first round pick. http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=776&Category=11

Marvin Harrison is the rare WR who was the one of the fastest players in his draft to become a superstar. Yet, even though he doesn't have anywhere close to the same speed today, he is still elite. Ginn is considered a sloppy route runner, with average hands, but "tremendous upside". Harrison is the master of precision and mastering his craft, and it's his hands and route running that made him and have kept him elite... again, not pure speed.

There are some WR's who have run at the top of their class for 40 times with times in the 4.3's... such as Chambers, Evans, and Santana Moss. But who would you take, those speed guys whom are very good, or the likes of "slower" dudes like Jerry Rice, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Anquin Boldin, Laveraneus Coles, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, etc? It's all about football smarts, football ability, route running, hands, etc... not simple, blazing speed. Think Steve Largent, one of the best WR's of all time. Hands, heart, route-running. Ginn is simply too big a risk. Unless Calvin Johnson falls, I say pass on WR. But if forced to choose between Jarrett or Ginn, I go with Jarrett.
Consider the following history of 40 times, which I could only find reliable info from 1999 to date. It is a list of all 1st rd picks from the last year, along with some stars from latter rounds. Very few pure speedsters make NFL stars. I truly consider Ginn to be most similar to Peter Warrick or Troy Williamson. Read the bios on Warrick and Williamson, again, eerily similar to Ginns profile. Anyway:

1996-Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Glenn, Eddie Kennison, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, Terrell Owens* (3rd rd).
1997-Ike Hilliard, Yatil Green, Reidel Anthony, Rae Carruth
1998-Kevin Dyson, Randy Moss, Marcus Nash
1999-Torry Holt 4.44, David Boston 4.47, Troy Edwards 4.57. *Fastest times: 4.24 Rondel Menendez, and 4.33 Karsten Bailey.
2000-Peter Warrick 4.3, Plaxico Burress 4.6, Travis Taylor 4.4, Sylvester Morris 4.61, R Jay Soward 4.37, Laveranues Coles 4.47* (3rd rd), Darrell Jackson 4.58* (3rd rd). *Fastest times: 4.35 Chris Cole, 4.37 R Jay Soward.
2001-David Terrell 4.43, Koren Robinson 4.61, Rod Gardner 4.48, Santana Moss 4.31, Freddie Mitchell 4.46, Reggie Wayne 4.45, Chad Johnson 4.57* (2nd rd), Steve Smith 4.41* (3rd rd). *Fastest times: 4.31 Santana Moss, 4.33 Chris Chambers.
2002-Donte Stallworth 4.48, Ashley Lelie 4.35, Javon Walker 4.38. *Fastest times: 4.31 Aaron Lockett, 4.32 Tim Carter.
2003-Charles Rogers 4.4, Andre Johnson 4.4, Bryant Johnson 4.57, Anquan Boldin 4.72* (2nd rd). *Fastest times: 4.34 Tyrone Calico, 4.38 Bethel Johnson.
2004-Larry Fitzgerald 4.63, Roy Williams 4.48, Reggie Williams 4.62, Michael Clayton 4.6, Michael Jenkins 4.6, Rashaun Woods 4.47. *Fastest times: 4.33 Carlos Francis, 4.36 Drew Carter.
2005-Braylon Edwards 4.45, Troy Williamson 4.32, Mike Williams 4.56, Matt Jones 4.42, Mark Clayton 4.4, Roddy White 4.47. *Fastest players: 4.28 Jerome Mathis, 4.32 Troy Williamson.
2006-Santonio Holmes 4.35, Marques Colston 4.5* (7th rd). *Fastest times: 4.32 Chad Jackson, 4.34 Willie Reid.
[FONT=&quot](Mostly found on NFLdraftscout.com)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please, just say NO to Ginn! :dolphins:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thoughts? [/FONT]

excellent post man

I agree with you a 100%
 
well what about the fast guys who are actually ballin? what about them? u can argue your point for the guys with speedy 40's too..so what?
 
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