After Free Agency do we still have to trade up for QB? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

After Free Agency do we still have to trade up for QB?

1972forever said:
I don’t think they need to trade up because even if the Chargers trade up and draft Tua, the Dolphins will still be able to select Herbert at 5 and keep their other two first round picks. I think they are probably leaning toward pick Herbert anyway because of Tua’s hip injury so they should just stay at 5 and let Herbert fall to them.
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You keep pushing this theory that Miami can just take Herbert as if Herbert and Tua are equal prospects. They are not in most people's minds, so settling for the lesser prospect at QB is unacceptable to most. It's like when Andrew Luck and Ryan Tannehill came out together in the same draft. Luck was the better prospect even though Tannehill wasn't a bad prospect but there was clearly a delineation. Miami was able to sit where they were and get Tannehill but Luck was the better QB. There is no need for Miami to sit where they are now and settle for the lesser prospect at QB when they are in the advantageous position they are in now.
 
39wildman said:
I think dolphins should build around Cam.. if he is healthy.. you can get 5 to 7 good yr out Cam. He would be best qb in afc east. Draft good backup.. or keep Rosen.. cut Fitzpatrick and pay his 2020 salary. For good 2019 season.
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Cam Newton is the most over hyped media driven celebrity QB I've ever seen. He's always been inaccurate, and can't read defenses, but he was a great athlete. Now he is beat up physically, but he still can't read a defense and is still inaccurate. He is 0-8 in his last eight starts. He is exactly the type of QB I would never want to build a franchise around.
 
I'm still of the view that the prudent thing is to sit pat at 5 and take Tua or Herbert (I think there's like a 85%+ chance that one of them is still there). We need the draft picks at 18 and 26 (and the 2nd round) to pick up good O-linemen and address other holes rather than increase certainty. This is not an exact science. The key parameter to get our hands around is the Dolphins evaluation of the perceived differential between Tua, Herbert, Love and how they value them compared to say the top O-linemen like Wirfs.
All my instincts tell me to be patient and sit pat.
 
Geordie said:
I've said this many times before but the Chargers have 7 draft picks, they really don't have the capital to try to jump us. The Jags and Lions are the biggest threat, but I would class both as remote outsiders. Staying at 5 is absolutely possible, I don't think though the fins FO will hold their nerve to though, I'm still expecting a small trade up to 3.
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If we trade up to three, I don’t think it will be small.
I do agree with you, I want to stay at 5
 
Kyndig said:
So, before free agency, there were multiple teams that were were concerned with potentially jumping in front of us, or if they were in front of us (Washington/Detroit) . Now free agency has been underway for awhile and how does the picture look now?

1. Cincinatti. Maybe we will trade up for Joe Burrow, but I would be surprised. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but I would be surprised. Reason being, the FO loves fitz, know’s chan Gaileys’ system, so we need to draft a rookie to sit behind Ryan and learn since whomever we draft would likely sit for most if not all of the season. We don’t have to trade the farm and could draft either Tua or Herbert at 5 without any trades which if you are weighing cost vs reward, might be just fine. I doubt CincinatI trades out and doesn’t draft Burrow, but it could happen, and as long as we could still draft a good tackle with one of our remaining 1st round pics and we wouldn’t have to jeopardize that, then maybe this is possible. This is the biggest wildcard in my opinion. Once past this, we don’t have to move.

2. Washington. Just signed Kyle Allen from Carolina, knows Rivera and the system. Dwayne Haskins, still has something to prove and is unknown in terms of his development and what he will turn into. I think they’ll take BPA HERE.

3. Detroit. Jobs are at stake, they will likely draft Okudah especially since they traded Darius Slay. This seems like a no brainer. Chargers only one IMHO who would be a threat to jump in front of us, and I don’t think they will, I’ll tell you why later.

4. NY Giants. Daniel Jones, don’t need to draft a QB this high yet. There are too many great players here available that can address a wide variety of needs. And once again, I’ll tell you why I don’t think Chargers need to trade in front of us.

5. Here we either draft Tua or Herbert depending upon who FO feels best about, possibly Jordan Love, you never know, when you factor in a red shirt year to learn behind Fitz, whoever they value the highest they can take here and still have all of their additional picks left that they traded good players away for to plug the many holes that are left on this roster.

6. Chargers. I think the Chargers are the number one destination for Cam Newton. They need fans to show up in their stadium in Los Angeles. Cam is big time, might be injured, but he should bring in some fans. They can draft whoever they want here including weapons for Cam, O line help, or Herbert/Love/Tua whomever is left with Love and Herbert probably being better fits to learn behind Cam here. Now, even if they don’t sign Cam Newton, I still don’t think they need to pay the price because they can either get Tua Herbert or Love here, whomever they rate the highest as they will need a veteran QB IMHO if they don’t sign Cam. Cam to LA makes alot of sense to me right now, so that’s what I’m betting on. Hey, it may not happen, and if it doesn’t, then I reserve the right to adapt to changing circumstances. Even if Cam doesn’t go to LA Chargers, they can stay Put and still draft a fine QB prospect at 6, they don’t need to trade up and therefore, neither do we.

Who is left who would jump in front of us potentially before free agency? Who were the candidates we were concerned about?

Panthers? Teddy Bridgewater. They don’t need to burn Draft capital to jump in front of us for a QB.

Jaguars? I think they will see what they have in Gardner Minshew this year. They may draft another prospect at some point in the draft, but they don’t need to pay the price to jump from 7 to 4 when they may have something with Minshew on the roster. Don’t think they need to pay the price for that.

Raiders? They have Marcus Mariota. they can still draft another young developmental QB in this draft at some point to compete, but they don’t have the motive to trade up from 12 to 3 or 4.

So this is why I don’t think we are going to have to trade up to pick our QB at 5.
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Functional phrase is "have to." No, Miami doesn't HAVE TO trade up. Doubt they will.
 
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Virginia99 said:
They traded their 1st round pick. Not sure how they're a threat.
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I forgot they traded it. Even though they could trade future picks, I agree they're not a threat for the top 5 anymore. They might look at Fromm or Hurts in the 2nd, though. Rivers only signed 1 year deal
 
Kyndig said:
So, before free agency, there were multiple teams that were were concerned with potentially jumping in front of us, or if they were in front of us (Washington/Detroit) . Now free agency has been underway for awhile and how does the picture look now?

1. Cincinatti. Maybe we will trade up for Joe Burrow, but I would be surprised. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but I would be surprised. Reason being, the FO loves fitz, know’s chan Gaileys’ system, so we need to draft a rookie to sit behind Ryan and learn since whomever we draft would likely sit for most if not all of the season. We don’t have to trade the farm and could draft either Tua or Herbert at 5 without any trades which if you are weighing cost vs reward, might be just fine. I doubt CincinatI trades out and doesn’t draft Burrow, but it could happen, and as long as we could still draft a good tackle with one of our remaining 1st round pics and we wouldn’t have to jeopardize that, then maybe this is possible. This is the biggest wildcard in my opinion. Once past this, we don’t have to move.

2. Washington. Just signed Kyle Allen from Carolina, knows Rivera and the system. Dwayne Haskins, still has something to prove and is unknown in terms of his development and what he will turn into. I think they’ll take BPA HERE.

3. Detroit. Jobs are at stake, they will likely draft Okudah especially since they traded Darius Slay. This seems like a no brainer. Chargers only one IMHO who would be a threat to jump in front of us, and I don’t think they will, I’ll tell you why later.

4. NY Giants. Daniel Jones, don’t need to draft a QB this high yet. There are too many great players here available that can address a wide variety of needs. And once again, I’ll tell you why I don’t think Chargers need to trade in front of us.

5. Here we either draft Tua or Herbert depending upon who FO feels best about, possibly Jordan Love, you never know, when you factor in a red shirt year to learn behind Fitz, whoever they value the highest they can take here and still have all of their additional picks left that they traded good players away for to plug the many holes that are left on this roster.

6. Chargers. I think the Chargers are the number one destination for Cam Newton. They need fans to show up in their stadium in Los Angeles. Cam is big time, might be injured, but he should bring in some fans. They can draft whoever they want here including weapons for Cam, O line help, or Herbert/Love/Tua whomever is left with Love and Herbert probably being better fits to learn behind Cam here. Now, even if they don’t sign Cam Newton, I still don’t think they need to pay the price because they can either get Tua Herbert or Love here, whomever they rate the highest as they will need a veteran QB IMHO if they don’t sign Cam. Cam to LA makes alot of sense to me right now, so that’s what I’m betting on. Hey, it may not happen, and if it doesn’t, then I reserve the right to adapt to changing circumstances. Even if Cam doesn’t go to LA Chargers, they can stay Put and still draft a fine QB prospect at 6, they don’t need to trade up and therefore, neither do we.

Who is left who would jump in front of us potentially before free agency? Who were the candidates we were concerned about?

Panthers? Teddy Bridgewater. They don’t need to burn Draft capital to jump in front of us for a QB.

Jaguars? I think they will see what they have in Gardner Minshew this year. They may draft another prospect at some point in the draft, but they don’t need to pay the price to jump from 7 to 4 when they may have something with Minshew on the roster. Don’t think they need to pay the price for that.

Raiders? They have Marcus Mariota. they can still draft another young developmental QB in this draft at some point to compete, but they don’t have the motive to trade up from 12 to 3 or 4.

So this is why I don’t think we are going to have to trade up to pick our QB at 5.
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We are not trading up for a QB. Not happening
 
The advocates for trading up for damaged goods are crazy. Your going to trade up for a guy that can't stay on the field, that will sit the bench for a year and cost us valuable choices when we need so much to re-build the franchise? Lets not forget he would moving to the 'bigger, faster, stronger', league where D coordinators will target him as the key to stopping our offence. Keep in mind he missed significant time at Alabama, where they continually put OL men in the pro's and generally face lesser competition. (yea they had to play LSU and Auburn every year, but the also played the "E. Bugtussle U's" of the world, each year). If Tua's there at 5 and they are convinced, take him. I'm not convinced this FO is all in on him because of his height, arm strength, and injury history. If he's gonna sit, why not draft Robo-QB (Herbert) and let HIM sit behind Fitz and turn him loose next year?
Oakland has 2 firsts 12-19 and no 2nd's. Jax has 2 firsts, 9-22 and 42 in the second. Chargers only have #6 and # 37. I don't think any of them have the ammo to trade up. Colts no 1st.
 
Etuoo33 said:
The advocates for trading up for damaged goods are crazy. Your going to trade up for a guy that can't stay on the field, that will sit the bench for a year and cost us valuable choices when we need so much to re-build the franchise? Lets not forget he would moving to the 'bigger, faster, stronger', league where D coordinators will target him as the key to stopping our offence. Keep in mind he missed significant time at Alabama, where they continually put OL men in the pro's and generally face lesser competition. (yea they had to play LSU and Auburn every year, but the also played the "E. Bugtussle U's" of the world, each year). If Tua's there at 5 and they are convinced, take him. I'm not convinced this FO is all in on him because of his height, arm strength, and injury history. If he's gonna sit, why not draft Robo-QB (Herbert) and let HIM sit behind Fitz and turn him loose next year?
Oakland has 2 firsts 12-19 and no 2nd's. Jax has 2 firsts, 9-22 and 42 in the second. Chargers only have #6 and # 37. I don't think any of them have the ammo to trade up. Colts no 1st.
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Look, I like Tua and would be okay if we drafted him at 5. I would also be happy if we got Herbert or Love if that’s who the FO wanted to roll with. I just don’t think we need to trade up to get a really great prospect. Keep in mind, let’s say we put Herbert or Love on Alabama the past two seasons. What would they have looked like? What kind of numbers would they have put up? Would either of them have gotten injured at all or as many times?
 
rent this space said:
GMs that don’t secure a franchise QB don’t last long either
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There are 4 solid Franchise QB prospects in this draft. There is an order, but I’m not sure there is as much daylight between all of them as you go down the list. Obviously, Burrow is the cleanest, but even he has concerns about his arm strength. For the rest, hey if Tua doesn’t have the history of injury all the way back to high school, then he’s the number one prospect, but that injury history is real. Herbert is a bit cerebral, and Love had some inconsistency. Add it all up and you roll the dice and the distance between these prospects probably isn’t as far as you think and I guarantee you that numbers 2, 3, & 4 are probably different on many NFL team’s draft boards as obsessed as many of us fans get with a single QB prospect.
 
rickd13 said:
You keep pushing this theory that Miami can just take Herbert as if Herbert and Tua are equal prospects. They are not in most people's minds, so settling for the lesser prospect at QB is unacceptable to most. It's like when Andrew Luck and Ryan Tannehill came out together in the same draft. Luck was the better prospect even though Tannehill wasn't a bad prospect but there was clearly a delineation. Miami was able to sit where they were and get Tannehill but Luck was the better QB. There is no need for Miami to sit where they are now and settle for the lesser prospect at QB when they are in the advantageous position they are in now.
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And where are Luck and Tannehill now? Just saying. And you’re right, some have Herbert ahead of Tua and some may even have Love ahead of both of them. It’s all in the eye of the beholder and the price, risk/vs reward. Look, if Tua isn’t injured, then he’s a bengal and we are probably having to trade up for Burrow, but that’s not how the chip’s fell.

Andrew Luck

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2012*23INDQB12161611-5-033962754.14374233.7182.9208707.06.412.9273.476.565.6412466.185.666.14713
2013*24INDQB12161611-5-034357060.23822234.091.6189736.76.811.1238.987.063.7322275.976.065.33315
2014*25INDQB12161611-5-038061661.74761406.5162.6235807.77.912.5297.696.562.6271617.157.284.21116
201526INDqb12772-5-016229355.31881155.1124.192876.45.611.6268.774.949.415885.825.044.9124
201627INDQB1215158-7-034654563.54240315.7132.4206647.87.812.3282.796.465.9412686.786.847.04416
2018*29INDQB12161610-6-043063967.34593396.1152.3260687.27.410.7287.198.769.4181346.796.952.73315
Career868653-33-02000329060.8236711715.2832.51190877.27.111.8275.289.517411246.516.425.0162079


Ryan Tannehill

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  • * Selected to Pro Bowl, + First-Team All-Pro
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201224MIAQB1716167-9-028248458.33294122.5132.7151806.86.111.7205.976.148.4352345.905.236.71110
201325MIAQB1716168-8-035558860.43913244.1172.9204676.76.211.0244.681.749.3583995.445.009.04310
201426MIAQB1716168-8-039259066.44045274.6122.0225506.96.910.3252.892.859.3463375.835.837.22114
201527MIAQB1716166-10-036358661.94208244.1122.0195547.27.111.6263.088.746.3454206.005.917.12211
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201830MIAQB1711115-6-017627464.21979176.293.392757.27.011.2179.992.731.0352795.505.2911.3336
2019*31TENQB1712107-3-020128670.32742227.762.1126919.610.213.6228.5117.5312127.988.529.82311
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I like Tua as well, at 5. I am not looking to move any picks outside of maybe 56 to secure him.

It's not a question that moving picks 26 or 39 for a franchise QB isn't worth securing a potential franchise QB, it is. When you combine the injury risk factor I get concerned about unloading resources for a potential problem down the road.

There is no right or wrong answer when tasked with predicting the unpredictable. If we trade up for him and he gets hurt, surely you will have a lot of people saying I told you so. If someone else trades up for Tua and he has a stellar career, you'll have a whole different batch of I told you soers.

I'll be 100% committed to whatever plan the FO rolls with either way. We have an arsenal of draft picks to build a TEAM, if the QB that leads that team isn't the guy people have been clamoring for the last year, so be it.

Nick Foles has as many titles as Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

If you hit on enough draft picks, this will sort itself out. If you continue to have more draft picks than everyone else, chances are you will find yourself in contention one way or another.
 
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So if you knew that Tua would mtach exactly Drew Brees career passing numbers, playoff wins, super bowl appearances and super bowl wins would yo say he's worth 2 or 3 1st round picks? I'm not saying he isn't just want you opinion. If Tua turned into a clone of Bree career wise would that be enough too justifyusing 2 or 3 1st round picks for him?
 
If I were the GM, which obviously I'm not.

I'd play every poker card trick possible this year...

trade that 5th pick for more capitol

roll with the 2 QBz under contract this season

and draft Trevor Lawrence in 2021.
 
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