After further review... | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

After further review...

Manning

Scout Team
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1,573
Ag
Completely agree, they tried and failed. But they brought in Ted Karras as a FA and that was a good move. Unfortunately, they did the Dolphin thing and made it a one year prove-it contract instead of a very cheap multi-year deal or a deal with an option that was available for peanuts to the Dolphins. Then Karras proved to be a pretty decent C and organized the line well .... and suddenly he commanded a LOT more money and we couldn't/didn't re-sign him. Money put into the OL, but poor contract strategy.

They also put starter money into Ereck Flowers ... a guy who was essentially a failure at LT and RT but had one year of a good OG play so we over-paid to get him. But he was decent .... essentially average on an OL with a very young, physically recovering, rookie LT. Flowers did OK .... but again, the contract strategy was all wrong, and so we had to cut him because we expected him to be the equal of his one best-ever year .... and he regressed to his mean. Still, two solid OL ..... moved on from and creating two holes out of our 5 OL.

Then we underestimated how much a quality OL costs .... looking for a replacement C and we struck out on all of them, most notably the Packers' C who we apparently wanted and who is playing lights out now .... because again, we didn't have a good feel for the market, and we're BAD at building OL .... and we don't add people who are good at it.

Combine this with the tragic bad management decision by Coach Flo who _clearly_ had found an OL coach who got the most out of his players ..... and Coach Flo fired him ...... that was a dumb move. Now he can't get a quality coach to even take the job .... and the current OL coach is bad. This is a slippery slope .... and it's going to be bad. Coach Flo now needs to make it work with the coaches and players he has ..... he has gotten a LOT of resources to rebuild this team .... now we're keeping score. Fix it or find a new job. Ditto for Grier .... although he has a little more wiggle room. Most likely, when one goes ... both will go and we nuke it and start again.
Agree. Just a bad job all around. Everything is being mismanaged. Now why do you believe that Grier has any wiggle room? There really isn’t one good thing he has done in the last 3 years except for the the Tunsil trade which ultimately didn’t really turn out to be any good when you see the full picture. I think it Iggy/waddle for Tunsil
 

Digital

Starter
Club Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
11,262
Reaction score
13,544
Ag

Agree. Just a bad job all around. Everything is being mismanaged. Now why do you believe that Grier has any wiggle room? There really isn’t one good thing he has done in the last 3 years except for the the Tunsil trade which ultimately didn’t really turn out to be any good when you see the full picture. I think it Iggy/waddle for Tunsil
Well some of the guys who Grier drafted have showed ability. In this draft alone Waddle looks like a decent WR prospect and Phillips looks like a very talented DE/OLB hybrid prospect. Also, Grier has shown ability to trade picks up and down the draft board to get more pick value. But his decision to pass on Herbert to draft Tua will make or break him, IMHO.
 

Manning

Scout Team
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1,573
Well some of the guys who Grier drafted have showed ability. In this draft alone Waddle looks like a decent WR prospect and Phillips looks like a very talented DE/OLB hybrid prospect. Also, Grier has shown ability to trade picks up and down the draft board to get more pick value. But his decision to pass on Herbert to draft Tua will make or break him, IMHO.
We had the 3rd overall pick before the trade. It’s very very early but as of today it looks like the pick should’ve been Chase who was #1 on most mocks and draft boards. Phillips, also early obviously but there are DE/Olb drafted after with more production. I don’t even want to go much into this draft cause it is impossible to know who will be the better player in the long run BUT, looking at the big picture with all that draft capital and money there really hasn’t been anything to get excited over. I honestly think anyone on this board could’ve done a better job putting the team together in the last 3 years than Grier has.
 

Digital

Starter
Club Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
11,262
Reaction score
13,544
We had the 3rd overall pick before the trade. It’s very very early but as of today it looks like the pick should’ve been Chase who was #1 on most mocks and draft boards. Phillips, also early obviously but there are DE/Olb drafted after with more production. I don’t even want to go much into this draft cause it is impossible to know who will be the better player in the long run BUT, looking at the big picture with all that draft capital and money there really hasn’t been anything to get excited over. I honestly think anyone on this board could’ve done a better job putting the team together in the last 3 years than Grier has.
I was 100% on board with drafting Chase ... and I thought he would be available at #6 ... but he wasn't. I can't really fault Grier for trading back and picking up the other 1st rounder, as it was a good move, IMHO. I'm a huge supporter of Jaelan Phillips and believe he was/is the best pass rusher in this draft, and definitely the best fit for Coach Flo's defense. But as you say ... time will tell.
 

gfish24

Rookie
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
1,553
Reaction score
699
Location
Haldimand, ON, Canada
FiHfBt3.gif
Most analysts rated Tua higher than Herbert on their draft boards- I also remember many analysts stating there was a lot of red flags with Herbert including accuracy and leadership- 2 qualities Tua excels at… I think Tua needs to be given a chance, cause he hasn’t got a fair shake, to show he’s the right pick, and it is way too early to give up on him… however, knowing what I know now I definitely would have taken Herbert… however let’s not act like Herbert was a foregone conclusion of the 2020 draft, because there were a lot of Questions about him
 

lynx

Second String
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
1,492
Reaction score
1,629
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
Pretty clear they thought the Oline was ready to become legit - boy were they wrong. Hopefully by the end of the year it will be at least "OK"
 

Goonies

Club Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
2,599
Reaction score
1,736
Location
Miami,FL
We had the 3rd overall pick before the trade. It’s very very early but as of today it looks like the pick should’ve been Chase who was #1 on most mocks and draft boards. Phillips, also early obviously but there are DE/Olb drafted after with more production. I don’t even want to go much into this draft cause it is impossible to know who will be the better player in the long run BUT, looking at the big picture with all that draft capital and money there really hasn’t been anything to get excited over. I honestly think anyone on this board could’ve done a better job putting the team together in the last 3 years than Grier has.
LMAO, I’ve been saying for many years the top draft gurus on finheaven would absolutely do a better job drafting then Grier or anyone for that matter the past 20 years.
 

Yoodakine56

Club Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
387
Reaction score
685
Age
45
Location
Hawaii
Most analysts rated Tua higher than Herbert on their draft boards- I also remember many analysts stating there was a lot of red flags with Herbert including accuracy and leadership- 2 qualities Tua excels at… I think Tua needs to be given a chance, cause he hasn’t got a fair shake, to show he’s the right pick, and it is way too early to give up on him… however, knowing what I know now I definitely would have taken Herbert… however let’s not act like Herbert was a foregone conclusion of the 2020 draft, because there were a lot of Questions about him

Moreover, Lets not act like Herbert wasnt set up better with a chargers team after the departure of Phillip Rivers. Which also made better moves to help him succeed... Better off than Tua is with our current roster. Too many missing pieces, too many injuries, too many OCs, not enough time for chemistry. Its like a snowball effect trending downwards, set up for failure. All that said still a fan Hoping for a quick turnaround this week.
 

Mark_J

Bandwidth Of Brothers
Super Donator
Club Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
3,980
Location
Alabama
I mean the 2 CO system can work... Playcalling and coordinating are 2 very different set of skills and having 1 guy for each jobs would absolutely make sense... But this is obviously not how they're going about it so yeah...
With all due respect, point me to an offense that was successful with two OC's that had equal authority along with a Head Coach. There have been successful offensive minded Head Coaches that had an OC that were successful but I don't ever recall seeing a winning team with this OC set up win more games than they lose...
 

dirkey

Club Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
879
Reaction score
1,079
Age
41
Location
Palo Alto, CA
It wasn’t just the hip situation, it was the series of injuries his final two years at Alabama as well that raised red flags for many!

I don’t have a head count of where other GM’s stood and won’t pretend to know, but…..there was much debate at the time amongst NFL people now in the media about the merits of both. Including many who favored Herbert over the smallish, less athletic Tua….with injury prone concerns. We also now have the tidbit of info that within the organization Marino had favored Herbert and that Grier overrode that advice.

So I can’t give Grier a pass on the situation when evaluating my opinion of his performance.

I know personally, it was all of the above plus watching Tua fall short in big games against Clemson and LSU those final two years, strange turnovers by him at big moments in those games that made my mind up!

I personally put less stock in the freshman year coming off the bench win over Georgia than the above.

I don’t personally think most considered The Chargers a better landing spot than Miami prior to the 2020 draft.

I would argue the failure of Grier and Flores and Tua’s continued injury prone streak, coupled with the excellent play of Herbert, have created that perception.
I hadn't heard this about Marino. What's the source on that?
 

39wildman

Club Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
5,626
Reaction score
2,069
I am willing give flo and Tua one more year..if it dont work move on..that my advice to dolphins...go get good GM and coach...
 

Adam Strange

Question Authority
Club Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
2,437
Reaction score
2,098
Location
Massachusetts
We also now have the tidbit of info that within the organization Marino had favored Herbert and that Grier overrode that advice.
Marino finally contributes something of great worth to the organization (aside from his amazing play over his career), and the failure in the GM’s chair overrides him. This franchise. 🙄
 

SF Dolphin Fan

Seasoned Veteran
Club Member
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
15,923
Reaction score
11,903
Now if you ask, what would it take to build a true SB contender in the next 2-3 years? (Not a playoff contender)
- Tua becomes Brees
- JP becomes Cam Wake
- we adjust on defense better to handle what has been exposed there since last year
- we find a top offensive coordinator who actually agrees to work under Flores
- we invest in a top RB (remember they actually made an offer to Aaron Jones)

At this point we've seen some of the cards fall. Of the high-resource/high hope gambles we've taken I'd say
- Noah is probably a bust -- sure he could turn it around but if it takes till year 4 of this rookie contract to play like a first round pick its a wasted pick
- AJ is a bust - at best a decent guard for a top 16 pick, a big overpay

But all is not lost, a lot of potential still in what's in our hands:
- Tua - jury is out but i'm still very hopeful
- JP - arrow up
- Liam - solid LT - pleasant surprise
- Robert Hunt - solid pick
- dieter
- Waddle - looking pretty good so far
- Flores is still a good player's coach
- our secondary is still elite, just need a pass rush

For the rest of this season, playoffs doesn't matter to me anymore, I will call the project back on track if
- Tua emerges as a franchise QB
- we settle most of the positions on the OL - if Dieter, Hunt, Liam, Jackson work going fwd that's a big relief
- JP breaks out
And in the offseason they manage to get a top OC to come here, and invest in a top RB. Also need to make some adjustments on the pass defense but not sure exactly what personnel / scheme wise is most to blame.
Well said. Looking forward a lot would have to go Miami's way, but it could.

Tua is obviously the key. I still have high hopes for him as well. The Herbert comparisons don't matter to me as the circumstances/ situation is different.

Waddle, Phillips, Holland and Eichenberg all look like hits. I think Waddle takes off with Tua coming back. Agree with Digital that Grier has tried to put talent around Tua, just hasn't materialized yet.

Yes, Jackson and Iggy are questionable. Let's see how Jackson fares now at guard.

I also think the coaching staff on the offensive side is a question mark, but I also realize we're only five games into the season. And most of that has been without Tua.
 
Top Bottom