Am I the only one that cringes at EVERY single trade up scenario ?

[BeatCrazy2]

Exactly. Look at the 49ers. They are basically the same team as last season. Last season with no QB they go 4 - 12. QB comes back(and he's not even considered elite) and they get to the super bowl.

We can aquire all the picks we want and keep drafting BPA. Until you get a real QB you are just pissing in the wind.

The reason the 49ers were in the super bowl, is their offensive line mauling people so well and often that players like Raheem Mostert became playoff super stars. Their defense was also a huge factor. It had pretty much nothing to do with Jimmy G, as seen by the EIGHT passes he threw in the NFC Championship game. The only thing you hit on in your entire post is him not being elite. Bravo.

I'd like to get a franchise quarterback as much as the next guy, trust me. But successful teams build through the draft, and they build from the inside out. They hit on their 2nd day picks, rather than trading them away. Or if you're the Patriots, you slide down a few picks multiple times throughout the draft every year and pick up MORE draft capital. Speaking of which, I forget...did they trade up to take the greatest QB of all time or was he taken in the 6th round? But I'm sure you're all correct that we HAVE TO MOVE UP for the player we so desperately need and cannot live without.

 

[BeatCrazy2]

Nope, because without a QB, you’re dead in the water. All of those shiny picks mean absolutely nothing if you don’t have the most important position settled. When you have a QB, you have the luxury of letting the draft come to you. Miami hasn’t had the luxury in over 20 years.

You're completely missing the point. How can you guarantee that moving up to draft Tua means the team has finally found its savior at the position?! Letting the draft come to you is EXACTLY what they should do, but it has nothing to do with having or not having a QB. If anything, it's the one position they could spend a little cash on and go pluck Rivers or Winston or Brady for a couple seasons, as long as they surround them with an elite level Offensive line and a good defense. The young QB they take is most likely going to need time to develop anyways. The rest of the team stills needs building and those "shiny draft picks" you speak of are the only way that's getting accomplished. So saying they mean absolutely nothing shows how little you know about success in the NFL.

 

[BeatCrazy2]

I don't cringe at all.

There will be a need to move up...that is the cost of winning games, I don't have a issue with the Dolphins winning games, I differ from some in that respect, but I think the Dolphins winning and showing towards the end of the season is why Tua is more OK with going to the phins then other teams.

The price will be high because the move up is for a QB that is liked by a lot of people. Tua is not only the most talented passer, he is also a person people will gravitate towards. He will easily become the face of the franchise...people just love the kid as a person.

What would I be willing to give up...all their first this year and 1 next year...I'd still do it. One it doesn't sacrifice the future of the franchise as we will still have all the "regular picks" only giving up the extra we got for Tunsil and Minkah. Two, we still have a ton of extra picks, granted they are not those late firsts anymore, but we saw this staff get competent play out of dudes undrafted, I would expect them to get above-average play out of draftable players, even if those players are mid-round picks. Three, QB is easily worth 4 players, an unknown QB is easily worth 4 unknown players we could draft.

I understand the desire to keep as many picks as possible, and I don't disagree, but as I have argued before, a late first position player is going to do little to move this forward if the QB position is "settled" by a guy we kinda like.

Teams that go on to compete and have the chance to experience greatness, are the ones who make bold moves...having the front office play to win, instead of playing not to lose would be a nice change.

I still believe the organization acquired all these pick just so they can have the ammo to outbid anyone if they were in a situation to move up.

 

[Locke]

You're completely missing the point. How can you guarantee that moving up to draft Tua means the team has finally found its savior at the position?! Letting the draft come to you is EXACTLY what they should do, but it has nothing to do with having or not having a QB. If anything, it's the one position they could spend a little cash on and go pluck Rivers or Winston or Brady for a couple seasons, as long as they surround them with an elite level Offensive line and a good defense. The young QB they take is most likely going to need time to develop anyways. The rest of the team stills needs building and those "shiny draft picks" you speak of are the only way that's getting accomplished. So saying they mean absolutely nothing shows how little you know about success in the NFL.

Cool story, bro.

 

[BeatCrazy2]

I'd trade whatever was necessary to draft a qb.

Take that for what it is worth. Miami didnt trade a LT and DB to draft another LT and DB.

They traded Tunsil because they got so much more value in return. In fact, they acquired enough to take a LT, a DB, and more.

They traded Fitzpatrick because he didn't want to be in Miami.

None of this changes the fact that they are both good players on cheap contracts and we traded them away. The only way to turn that into a win for the team is hitting on those acquired picks by drafting multiple starters, at any position.

 

[Mach2]

You're completely missing the point. How can you guarantee that moving up to draft Tua means the team has finally found its savior at the position?! Letting the draft come to you is EXACTLY what they should do, but it has nothing to do with having or not having a QB. If anything, it's the one position they could spend a little cash on and go pluck Rivers or Winston or Brady for a couple seasons, as long as they surround them with an elite level Offensive line and a good defense. The young QB they take is most likely going to need time to develop anyways. The rest of the team stills needs building and those "shiny draft picks" you speak of are the only way that's getting accomplished. So saying they mean absolutely nothing shows how little you know about success in the NFL.

Bringing in "Rivers, Winston or Brady" is a horrible idea, IMO.

Personal attack on someones "knowledge", after a statement like that????

 

[BeatCrazy2]

"Do what we've been doing the last 20 years! It's worked out so well, so let's keep doing it!"

Huh ? What have we been doing for the past 20 years? I've been a fan for more than 30 and I've never in my life seen the Miami Dolphins have a draft haul of this caliber for one season, let alone two in a row. These next two years give them a chance to completely re-shape the franchise like NEVER before. I'm not saying they can't screw it up, but trading away your picks to move up and get a player that will most likely still be there at 5 is just plain dumb.

News Flash : Franchise Quarterbacks HAVE been drafted at pick 5 or lower in the National Football League.

 

[BeatCrazy2]

Bringing in "Rivers, Winston or Brady" is a horrible idea, IMO.

Personal attack on someones "knowledge", after a statement like that????

They were examples of veteran QBs that have had success in the NFL and could be used as a stop gap until they're sure they've found their guy. Wasn't advocating for any of them in particular, just the idea. The idea that the team doesn't have to panic and obsess over one player or position, when there are many ways to accomplish their goal of finding a franchise QB. Sorry if you're offended by my opinion. It wasn't meant to be rude I'm just being honest.

 

[Phinatic8u]

They traded Tunsil because they got so much more value in return. In fact, they acquired enough to take a LT, a DB, and more.

They traded Fitzpatrick because he didn't want to be in Miami.

None of this changes the fact that they are both good players on cheap contracts and we traded them away. The only way to turn that into a win for the team is hitting on those acquired picks by drafting multiple starters, at any position.

Obviously, but they're not going to replace them with the picks they got, that's the definition of insanity. You don't need a qb, have more ammo than any team in the NFL and use that ammo on a tackle and a nickelback.

 

[Mach2]

They were examples of veteran QBs that have had success in the NFL and could be used as a stop gap until they're sure they've found their guy. Wasn't advocating for any of them in particular, just the idea. The idea that the team doesn't have to panic and obsess over one player or position, when there are many ways to accomplish their goal of finding a franchise QB. Sorry if you're offended by my opinion. It wasn't meant to be rude I'm just being honest.

Two guys at the end of thier career, in steep decline, and another that never was anything?

If you had said Prescott, or Carr, at least those guys are in thier prime.

For our specific purpose, I just don't see the value. We are better off with Fitz next year, than spending big for a FA, IMO.

 

[Kamelion4291]

Huh ? What have we been doing for the past 20 years? I've been a fan for more than 30 and I've never in my life seen the Miami Dolphins have a draft haul of this caliber for one season, let alone two in a row. These next two years give them a chance to completely re-shape the franchise like NEVER before. I'm not saying they can't screw it up, but trading away your picks to move up and get a player that will most likely still be there at 5 is just plain dumb.

News Flash : Franchise Quarterbacks HAVE been drafted at pick 5 or lower in the National Football League.

News Flash: The teams that spend more resources on finding QBs usually get them. You want to do exactly what has been done from 2/3 of your apparent fandom and expect it to work differently this time.

Stop being cheap.

 

[JRYCRL]

 

[Travis34]

YES times 1000%.

You‘re not afraid because you get it. SF and TEN are great examples for just this season. Yes, neither team won, ultimately, but they were certainly playing well enough to win during the playoffs.

MIA once had the ultimate franchise QB. Yet only appeared in ONE Super Bowl. Dan Fouts, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon and numerous others were never part of a title winner. Meanwhile the lIkes of Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Nick Foles all have.

As you pointed out, Rodgers and Brees have combined to play around 30 seasons as starting QB’s. They each only have 1 title each to speak of. And they‘re as elite as elite can be.

It‘s more about the team and system. See the New England Patriots.

The Patriots have 6 titles. Brady was just part of them.

The Patriots have managed to win 6 titles because they built the perfect storm program. And managed to keep it consistent. And cheated numerous times, allegedly. But I digress.

Besides Brady, NE has had the most accomplished coach of all time. Not just during his time in NE, but also in NY with the Giants. They also had the most accomplished and clutch playoff place kicker of all time. And numerous other HOF’ers or soon to be.

I’ve made the argument many times that the first couple SB’s the Patriots won were on the strength of their defense and special teams, notably Vinatieri. Who made the two kicks against OAK in the snow to advance to a SB then game winners in two of the Super Bowls.

In short, it’s been a team and organization accomplishment above all else.

IMO, the Patriots have a ton in common with the 80’s SF 49ers. Numerous HOF players on both sides of the all. HOF head coaches. And an organizational system that was ahead of it’s time.

It wasn’t all on their QB, or even mostly.

I'm sure someone else has responded to this, or its been brought up, but I haven't read through the next 7 pages of replies.

But lets say the cost to move from 5 to 3 (or 2) is one of our late firsts and then a 2nd or 3rd. 2 picks....

So what precludes us from building a team and surrounding any young QB with talent around him? Just by losing out on 2 out of what, like 13 picks? I think it would be fine. Dont forget there is a whole free agent period as well..

Why do people think to trade up exclusively means we are doing nothing else to upgrade the team beats me

 

[Travis34]

None of this changes the fact that they are both good players on cheap contracts and we traded them away. The only way to turn that into a win for the team is hitting on those acquired picks by drafting multiple starters, at any position.

Really? Thats the only way? If we score a franchise qb that doesnt matter to ya?

 

[Kamelion4291]

I'm sure someone else has responded to this, or its been brought up, but I haven't read through the next 7 pages of replies.

But lets say the cost to move from 5 to 3 (or 2) is one of our late firsts and then a 2nd or 3rd. 2 picks....

So what precludes us from building a team and surrounding any young QB with talent around him? Just by losing out on 2 out of what, like 13 picks? I think it would be fine. Dont forget there is a whole free agent period as well..

Why do people think to trade up exclusively means we are doing nothing else to upgrade the team beats me

Because in their minds spending a pick/picks on a QB is a waste. They think that they are somehow going to have a really strong team if we just never actually spend at the QB position which is straight up hilarious.