Am I way out in left field about this quarterback issue? Long one, sorry | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Am I way out in left field about this quarterback issue? Long one, sorry

multistage

multistage

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This is not a Tua sucks/rules thread. It's a bit more about the game of football overall.

I don't post much these days, prefer to just read. But all I have seen for the past few days are arguments for and against our QB. Allow me to settle this for you:

Yes, he is good enough.

I wanted Herbert, was disappointed in the pick. But gentlemen, football is about so much more than the QB. Yeah, he's pretty damned important. Thrown in the fact he's on coach #2 and (I believe) offense #3 in three years. That's a lot. As is a sorry line (we have a sorry line right now, and Tua has seen nothing but that since we drafted him).

I'm not a big fan of his. I grew up watching cannon pocket passers with names like Strock and Marino.

And speaking of Marino, can anyone argue that the man was anything less than elite? As in the guy who singlehandedly redefined the passing game? I (and a few of you other old timers) know this because we watched him do it, live and in color. He was magnificent, easily the best of his (or any?) era.

So there's your elite QB guys, ours for 16 years. AFC was ours, playoffs almost a guarantee.

But no Lombardis.

How can this be? We had the best ever. Say what you will, but even the (puke) awesome Brady never saw the day he could throw like Marino.

It's because Marino never had a complete team. He had a line, receivers. D was...OK. Not much of a running game. I think Tua has a better team today (ST is excellent, D is very very good) except for a line. And with no line, you have no running game. Give the man a chance. I don't mean us as fans. I mean the front office. Get him a line.

Even Marino would likely not have been the guy we all know without the line he had. Stephenson, Webb, Newman....

As I said, I am not a Tua fan. I kinda gotta agree with Fitz that Tua will never be what we (Ross) hoped.

He likely won't be what we had hoped for. But he will be plenty good enough (with a line).
 
multistage said:
This is not a Tua sucks/rules thread. It's a bit more about the game of football overall.

I don't post much these days, prefer to just read. But all I have seen for the past few days are arguments for and against our QB. Allow me to settle this for you:

Yes, he is good enough.

I wanted Herbert, was disappointed in the pick. But gentlemen, football is about so much more than the QB. Yeah, he's pretty damned important. Thrown in the fact he's on coach #2 and (I believe) offense #3 in three years. That's a lot. As is a sorry line (we have a sorry line right now, and Tua has seen nothing but that since we drafted him).

I'm not a big fan of his. I grew up watching cannon pocket passers with names like Strock and Marino.

And speaking of Marino, can anyone argue that the man was anything less than elite? As in the guy who singlehandedly redefined the passing game? I (and a few of you other old timers) know this because we watched him do it, live and in color. He was magnificent, easily the best of his (or any?) era.

So there's your elite QB guys, ours for 16 years. AFC was ours, playoffs almost a guarantee.

But no Lombardis.

How can this be? We had the best ever. Say what you will, but even the (puke) awesome Brady never saw the day he could throw like Marino.

It's because Marino never had a complete team. He had a line, receivers. D was...OK. Not much of a running game. I think Tua has a better team today (ST is excellent, D is very very good) except for a line. And with no line, you have no running game. Give the man a chance. I don't mean us as fans. I mean the front office. Get him a line.

Even Marino would likely not have been the guy we all know without the line he had. Stephenson, Webb, Newman....

As I said, I am not a Tua fan. I kinda gotta agree with Fitz that Tua will never be what we (Ross) hoped.

He likely won't be what we had hoped for. But he will be plenty good enough (with a line).
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My listening comprehension didn't hear Fitz say that Tua will never be what we (Ross) hoped.
 
Did marino ever had a bad oline? Answer is no.

And player about 15 years.

Sure he had to have some weak olineplayers here and there.

But marino and his quick release made every single oline player he ever had , great player.

Not saying tua is going to be or ever be another marino.

But tua needs to get to the next level and improve as a qb if we are ever making even the playoffs with him at the helm.
 
Im also sure waddle and hill have as much speed and run as good routes maybe even better than clayton and duper but they will never be as good as clayton and duper here in miami and we know the reason why. The qb position.

Here is to hoping tua can improve throughout the season and make a playoff run.
 
andyahs said:
The forum would be a lot cleaner if we could combine all these threads.
Click to expand...
You could say that about most of the threads. There's a post-game discussion thread every week, yet there are a bunch of people that feel the need to create their own threads to give their opinions.
 
Our team as a whole is getting better: Our Head coaching is better. Our assistant coaches are better. The team is getting better. Tua is getting better. Grier had a couple of good drafts and nice FA off-season so he is getting better. We are trending up. We won last Sunday. Our record is 1-0. Be happy. There is a lot to be excited about here! :-)
 
multistage said:
This is not a Tua sucks/rules thread. It's a bit more about the game of football overall.

I don't post much these days, prefer to just read. But all I have seen for the past few days are arguments for and against our QB. Allow me to settle this for you:

Yes, he is good enough.

I wanted Herbert, was disappointed in the pick. But gentlemen, football is about so much more than the QB. Yeah, he's pretty damned important. Thrown in the fact he's on coach #2 and (I believe) offense #3 in three years. That's a lot. As is a sorry line (we have a sorry line right now, and Tua has seen nothing but that since we drafted him).

I'm not a big fan of his. I grew up watching cannon pocket passers with names like Strock and Marino.

And speaking of Marino, can anyone argue that the man was anything less than elite? As in the guy who singlehandedly redefined the passing game? I (and a few of you other old timers) know this because we watched him do it, live and in color. He was magnificent, easily the best of his (or any?) era.

So there's your elite QB guys, ours for 16 years. AFC was ours, playoffs almost a guarantee.

But no Lombardis.

How can this be? We had the best ever. Say what you will, but even the (puke) awesome Brady never saw the day he could throw like Marino.

It's because Marino never had a complete team. He had a line, receivers. D was...OK. Not much of a running game. I think Tua has a better team today (ST is excellent, D is very very good) except for a line. And with no line, you have no running game. Give the man a chance. I don't mean us as fans. I mean the front office. Get him a line.

Even Marino would likely not have been the guy we all know without the line he had. Stephenson, Webb, Newman....

As I said, I am not a Tua fan. I kinda gotta agree with Fitz that Tua will never be what we (Ross) hoped.

He likely won't be what we had hoped for. But he will be plenty good enough (with a line).
Click to expand...
Couple of comments.

I also never heard Fitz say Tua would not be what we or Ross hoped. Either way it's just an opinion, but it's not what he said.

As great as Marino was, he wasn't perfect. He was never any good at P/A. His post snap reads were middling at best. He made up for that with great accuracy and a lightning release. He wasn't a great student of the game, not what you would call a cerebral QB. And obviously, he was never great at extending plays outside of the pocket.

So like every other QB he needed a certain amount of help in terms of a supporting cast, luck and bounces to go his way to win it all.
 
I think part of the problem with Tua is something the OP actually touched on. He is not Dan Marino. For those of us lucky enough to see Marino play, that was something special. We know what an elite quarterback looks like.

The closest current comparison is Patrick Mahomes.

But even Marino wasn't perfect. His play action passes never fooled anyone and he looked like he was going through the motions every time he tried to "sell" it. That didn't help the run game.

Tua has tools to work with and a couple that I think are elite, notably accuracy and pocket presence.

He does need to play mistake free, or near mistake free, while Marino had the arm to take more chances and often come out on top.

But I also agree with the OP that the Dolphins can win with Tua. The offensive line is a work in progress, but should get better. He has an elite receiver in Hill and a close to elite one in Waddle.

The current defense is better than any Marino had to work with IMO.
 
phinschamp45 said:
Im also sure waddle and hill have as much speed and run as good routes maybe even better than clayton and duper but they will never be as good as clayton and duper here in miami and we know the reason why. The qb position.

Here is to hoping tua can improve throughout the season and make a playoff run.
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Waddle had 104 receptions and 1015 yards receiving last year as a rookie. That’s more receptions than either Duper or Clayton ever had in 22 combined seasons. Waddle has also gone 1/1 in 1000+ yard seasons so far. Duper and Clayton had a combined 9 1000-yard years in 22 combined seasons.

It’s quite possible both Waddle and Hill go for 1000 yards this season in their first with Tua as QB. Duper and Clayton did that three times in the same season ever.
 
Marino2.0 said:
Waddle had 104 receptions and 1015 yards receiving last year as a rookie. That’s more receptions than either Duper or Clayton ever had in 22 combined seasons. Waddle has also gone 1/1 in 1000+ yard seasons so far. Duper and Clayton had a combined 9 1000-yard years in 22 combined seasons.

It’s quite possible both Waddle and Hill go for 1000 yards this season in their first with Tua as QB. Duper and Clayton did that three times in the same season ever.
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You're comparing stats in 2020's to stats in 1980's?

That's 40 years of rules changes to make offenses more prolific and tailor the game from guys like Marino to guys like Jackson.
 
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