...and we've rebuilt the Offensive Line. | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

...and we've rebuilt the Offensive Line.

Feverdream

Feverdream

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Now, before the Trolls get all pissy, in no way am I saying this this will work... only that we've done it.

Here we go. I'm 90% sure that our new starting line is:
LT: Paul
LG: Daniels
C: Brewer
RG: Savaiinaea
RT: Jackson

First off, Daniels has played both left and right guard in his career. He started on the left side and has been on the right lately. He's a vet, a good vet; if he's healthy (and I think he will be), he'll play next to young Paul. Savvy has played mostly on the right side during his career (both Tackle and Guard) and has never played LG unless it was in high school, so to ease his path into the NFL and to protect Paul, I'm thinking... strongly... that this is the new set of starters.

Now for the news that is going to get some brothers all up in arms... Liam Eichenberg is our 6th man. ...and he's our 6th man because he can play every position on the line and he can do it at the drop of the hat, or even while battling his own injuries. He signed a contract that pays him less than he was making and he KNOWS he's a backup, so there won't be any sulking. I know a lot of you hate him passionately, but every team has a player or two like this-- failed starters who stick around through hard work and willingness. Oddly enough, when these players move on to another team, the new set of fans tend to value them. Remember how many brothers pretended that Kendall Lamm was suddenly worthy as he hit his 5th team (us) in his 31st year of life, and after having season ending back surgery last year. As Spongebob said.... Imagination.

Which brings me to Borum. He's very similar, though more limited in the number of positions that he can play. He's no Center, and Borum at LT would be scary bad. He's always had Guard size, Guard feet, and a Guard's game. Why Chicago kept running him out there as a Tackle is a question for the ages. He'll only be 26 this year (younger than Kion Smith). He should stick as a backup Guard/3rd string RT. If I'm wrong, he's an easy cut. Most teams release a player or two who disappoint. ...and a lot of failed Tackles end up being good Guards... for instance Mekhi Bechton.

I think those 7 are pretty safe.

8 is probably Andrew Meyer. He's a Center only, but the 'phins saw something in him, keeping him all year even though Brewer kept him on the bench. Unless UDFA Addison West dislodges him (doubtful), I think Meyer is reasonably safe unless he faceplants in pre-season (and you know that we won't expose Brewer much in the preseason).

After that, we have a logjam of players fighting for one spot, unless we elect to keep 10 (and without Armstead in the lineup, we probably won't need a tenth man).

Hayes, Carman, Hines, Braeden Daniels, and longshot international player Matos are all probably one step behind Kion Smith-- maybe two or three steps behind him. Kion is a player the Dolphins obviously like, and he is probably the reason why we haven't brought in a drafted or UDFA OT. We dropped an ERFA tender on him when we could have let him walk... they don't do that unless they like a player. There was some talk that he was ahead of Lamm last year until he was injured in camp. I suspect... (no, I won't put money on it) that Kion is your swing Tackle this year. At any rate, he isn't a Guard-- too light.

Now Hayes, Hines, B. Daniels, and Carmen have a shot... but none of them have shown much in their careers, and all of them have been on multiple teams without ever really making a roster for more than a week or two, so betting on any of them is a fool's bet, but I guess that's why they run the race. Stranger things have happened, although... not usually with Linemen.

Could we bring in another FA lineman? Well, we could... but I don't think we will. Our starting lineup is set and no quality FA is coming here to sit, and the Dolphins are not going to dish out big money for a backup; we're gonna spend whatever we have left on a vet corner.

Now... feel free to throw fruit at me, but I'm only the messenger.
 
Great post, I agree with you except on Meyer, since he can only fill one position on the line he doesn’t have as much value as Eich on game day. I don’t want to have to rely on Eich or Borom for extended stretches, I’m sure they will play at some point as there’s no way we are getting the same 5 guys starting all year. Eich is a good 6th man to have as long as he plays at a slightly below average player level and not a steaming pile of crap level. Still hope Borom slots inside as their 7th guy, Eich is the 6th man and Kion is the swing tackle, which would leave one more spot and I’d prefer that last spot go to someone with a bit more positional flexibility. I really hope one of the UDFAs shows out, someone who play 2 or 3 spots on the line.

Still think Meyer is worth developing on the practice squad.
 
Thanks Fever, a fine and considered review.

I've mixed feelings on the 2025 OL. I was for sure one of the posters being very emotional about the OL prior to and during free agency - purely because I'm so fed up with it being out achilles heel. Over the last 15 years we've had spells or seasons of having good to very good units at every single position group... other than one. And I need not to explain why this group being your weak spot when you have a QB severely prone to concussions is a problem.

Regarding the starting 5 I think they've done a solid job. They haven't ignored it and on paper the interior looks a lot stronger than it did 12 months ago. Grier deserves credit for that. There are still three question marks though; Can Paul cut it as a starting tackle? Is Daniels going to be healthy? Will Savvy hit the ground running as a rookie?

The number of snaps taken by OL that weren't in the starting 5 per year over the last 7 seasons is as follows:

2018 - 14%
2019 - 26%
2020 - 14%
2021 - 14%
2022 - 21%
2023 - 35%
2024 - 19%

So this, coupled with those 3 question marks tells us we're going to see a fairly high snap count from the 6th, 7th and possibly 8th men. I'm still very concerned about those players because every one of them has struggled in the NFL. However I do of course accept that no team in the NFL has 8 players on their roster that are all starting calibre.

I think where I would land on it would be we're still one short of having a really good go at fixing this thing with no regrets. If Eich and Borom were your 7th and 8th guys and we'd signed one more capable vet to compete with Savvy in his rookie year, it would afford a lot more contingency. Now that's easily said... but there is such a thing as a salary cap of course so where would I have re-allocated that money? I think when all's said and done it would be NWI's salary that I'd have rather seen saved and spent on a FA guard post-draft. I'd rather have seen Washington, Washington, Eskridge and maybe even Armstrong get those NWI snaps than Eich and Borom have to take the likely 15-20% of OL snaps that they'll have to take.

Complaining about the 6th, 7th and 8th men in the OL rotation though is a significant upgrade on the equivalent complaints over the last 5 years and it's pretty much night and day compared to the complaints of 12 months ago. With that said, I think you have to chalk up the OL investment as pretty solid this offseason. Fingers crossed for Paul, Savvy and the health of those 5 guys in general.
 
Feverdream said:
Now, before the Trolls get all pissy, in no way am I saying this this will work... only that we've done it.

Here we go. I'm 90% sure that our new starting line is:
LT: Paul
LG: Daniels
C: Brewer
RG: Savaiinaea
RT: Jackson

First off, Daniels has played both left and right guard in his career. He started on the left side and has been on the right lately. He's a vet, a good vet; if he's healthy (and I think he will be), he'll play next to young Paul. Savvy has played mostly on the right side during his career (both Tackle and Guard) and has never played LG unless it was in high school, so to ease his path into the NFL and to protect Paul, I'm thinking... strongly... that this is the new set of starters.

Now for the news that is going to get some brothers all up in arms... Liam Eichenberg is our 6th man. ...and he's our 6th man because he can play every position on the line and he can do it at the drop of the hat, or even while battling his own injuries. He signed a contract that pays him less than he was making and he KNOWS he's a backup, so there won't be any sulking. I know a lot of you hate him passionately, but every team has a player or two like this-- failed starters who stick around through hard work and willingness. Oddly enough, when these players move on to another team, the new set of fans tend to value them. Remember how many brothers pretended that Kendall Lamm was suddenly worthy as he hit his 5th team (us) in his 31st year of life, and after having season ending back surgery last year. As Spongebob said.... Imagination.

Which brings me to Borum. He's very similar, though more limited in the number of positions that he can play. He's no Center, and Borum at LT would be scary bad. He's always had Guard size, Guard feet, and a Guard's game. Why Chicago kept running him out there as a Tackle is a question for the ages. He'll only be 26 this year (younger than Kion Smith). He should stick as a backup Guard/3rd string RT. If I'm wrong, he's an easy cut. Most teams release a player or two who disappoint. ...and a lot of failed Tackles end up being good Guards... for instance Mekhi Bechton.

I think those 7 are pretty safe.

8 is probably Andrew Meyer. He's a Center only, but the 'phins saw something in him, keeping him all year even though Brewer kept him on the bench. Unless UDFA Addison West dislodges him (doubtful), I think Meyer is reasonably safe unless he faceplants in pre-season (and you know that we won't expose Brewer much in the preseason).

After that, we have a logjam of players fighting for one spot, unless we elect to keep 10 (and without Armstead in the lineup, we probably won't need a tenth man).

Hayes, Carman, Hines, Braeden Daniels, and longshot international player Matos are all probably one step behind Kion Smith-- maybe two or three steps behind him. Kion is a player the Dolphins obviously like, and he is probably the reason why we haven't brought in a drafted or UDFA OT. We dropped an ERFA tender on him when we could have let him walk... they don't do that unless they like a player. There was some talk that he was ahead of Lamm last year until he was injured in camp. I suspect... (no, I won't put money on it) that Kion is your swing Tackle this year. At any rate, he isn't a Guard-- too light.

Now Hayes, Hines, B. Daniels, and Carmen have a shot... but none of them have shown much in their careers, and all of them have been on multiple teams without ever really making a roster for more than a week or two, so betting on any of them is a fool's bet, but I guess that's why they run the race. Stranger things have happened, although... not usually with Linemen.

Could we bring in another FA lineman? Well, we could... but I don't think we will. Our starting lineup is set and no quality FA is coming here to sit, and the Dolphins are not going to dish out big money for a backup; we're gonna spend whatever we have left on a vet corner.

Now... feel free to throw fruit at me, but I'm only the messenger.
Click to expand...

Great write up but Kion Smith is an absolute lock, they absolutely love him and have been developing him for years. I’m pretty sure he was a large part of their plan last year until his injury.

I’d bring back Wynn to bolster the guards and he was a really good left tackle with the last a few years ago. Sucked when they moved him to right tackle but had a year or two as one of the top left tackle. I also like Trystan Colon who started some games at rg for the cards last few years also has played C. Both would be cheap.

As for the overall line I think it’s improved. Some question marks but it’s hard to be worse than last year or end of 2023. Have to see if Paul can fill armsteads big shoes and injuries but plugging in Savaiinaea and signing Daniels along with getting Jackson back should lead to a big upgrade.

I know everyone is afraid of Eich playing but it wasn’t just him. Ideally he doesn’t sniff the field but most solid lines all have a weak link. If Eich is the weak link and only weak link I think it could work however the issue was last year we started with two weak links in Eich and Jones. Then Jackson went down and you had your fair share of games where Armstead couldn’t go so you had Paul trying to learn on the job while on the same line as the two weak links and Lamm (who don’t get me wrong has played fantastic last two years but he’s not the caliber of player that not only plays perfectly in his spot but can rise the whole unit). At one point in Dec 2023 the line was Lamm-Cotton-Eich-Jones-Jackson which might be the worst combo the league has ever seen. I think we are starting on a higher tier and have a little more room for error as opposed to starting in the error with last years line while starting tweedledee and tweedledum. Please for the love of Tua stay healthy though 🙏
 
MARINO1384 said:
Great write up but Kion Smith is an absolute lock, they absolutely love him and have been developing him for years. I’m pretty sure he was a large part of their plan last year until his injury.

I’d bring back Wynn to bolster the guards and he was a really good left tackle with the last a few years ago. Sucked when they moved him to right tackle but had a year or two as one of the top left tackle. I also like Trystan Colon who started some games at rg for the cards last few years also has played C. Both would be cheap.

As for the overall line I think it’s improved. Some question marks but it’s hard to be worse than last year or end of 2023. Have to see if Paul can fill armsteads big shoes and injuries but plugging in Savaiinaea and signing Daniels along with getting Jackson back should lead to a big upgrade.

I know everyone is afraid of Eich playing but it wasn’t just him. Ideally he doesn’t sniff the field but most solid lines all have a weak link. If Eich is the weak link and only weak link I think it could work however the issue was last year we started with two weak links in Eich and Jones. Then Jackson went down and you had your fair share of games where Armstead couldn’t go so you had Paul trying to learn on the job while on the same line as the two weak links and Lamm (who don’t get me wrong has played fantastic last two years but he’s not the caliber of player that not only plays perfectly in his spot but can rise the whole unit). At one point in Dec 2023 the line was Lamm-Cotton-Eich-Jones-Jackson which might be the worst combo the league has ever seen. I think we are starting on a higher tier and have a little more room for error as opposed to starting in the error with last years line while starting tweedledee and tweedledum. Please for the love of Tua stay healthy though 🙏
Click to expand...

I think as long as we can keep it to one weak link we can overcome it, if Eich or Borom have to play a game here or there we can get more help from backs and TEs around the side they are on and shade Brewer to his side as well and deal with it…however if they are both in the game that’s when disaster can and will happen. We must avoid that scenario at all costs, I like the idea of Wynn even though he can’t stay healthy if he’s in a backup role he’s a much better player than Eich/Borom. Even put Kion Smith ahead of one of them at guard, anything to avoid them being together on the field at the same time
 
I think my concern is at right tackle and the inexperience with Paul and Savvy. You look at Jackson's PFF grade and it feels like we have to cover for him and help two rookies. That's a big ask.
 
I'm looking for reclimation projects, players that were selected on day 1 or 2 of their drafts, but for one reason or another never fully devoled with their first team. Jerrick Willis, still young offensive tackle and former Tua teammate at Alabama, is an example. Not looking at him as a starter but hoping he might make a decent reserve.
 
theFreak41 said:
I think my concern is at right tackle and the inexperience with Paul and Savvy. You look at Jackson's PFF grade and it feels like we have to cover for him and help two rookies. That's a big ask.
Click to expand...

Jackson is fine, pff isn’t end all be all. Our run game went from solid to straight off the cliff when he went and that’s the only thing that really changed so it was his impact we missed. He hasn’t really been helped if anything he’s been hurt by playing next to Jones and the combo of Eich/cotton/jones that filled in for hunt when he missed like half of 2023 so if anything as long as Daniels/Savaiinaea is next to him he should have the most help he’s had. I find it hard either will be anything close to Eich/jones/cotton.
 
Feverdream said:
Now, before the Trolls get all pissy, in no way am I saying this this will work... only that we've done it.

Here we go. I'm 90% sure that our new starting line is:
LT: Paul
LG: Daniels
C: Brewer
RG: Savaiinaea
RT: Jackson

First off, Daniels has played both left and right guard in his career. He started on the left side and has been on the right lately. He's a vet, a good vet; if he's healthy (and I think he will be), he'll play next to young Paul. Savvy has played mostly on the right side during his career (both Tackle and Guard) and has never played LG unless it was in high school, so to ease his path into the NFL and to protect Paul, I'm thinking... strongly... that this is the new set of starters.

Now for the news that is going to get some brothers all up in arms... Liam Eichenberg is our 6th man. ...and he's our 6th man because he can play every position on the line and he can do it at the drop of the hat, or even while battling his own injuries. He signed a contract that pays him less than he was making and he KNOWS he's a backup, so there won't be any sulking. I know a lot of you hate him passionately, but every team has a player or two like this-- failed starters who stick around through hard work and willingness. Oddly enough, when these players move on to another team, the new set of fans tend to value them. Remember how many brothers pretended that Kendall Lamm was suddenly worthy as he hit his 5th team (us) in his 31st year of life, and after having season ending back surgery last year. As Spongebob said.... Imagination.

Which brings me to Borum. He's very similar, though more limited in the number of positions that he can play. He's no Center, and Borum at LT would be scary bad. He's always had Guard size, Guard feet, and a Guard's game. Why Chicago kept running him out there as a Tackle is a question for the ages. He'll only be 26 this year (younger than Kion Smith). He should stick as a backup Guard/3rd string RT. If I'm wrong, he's an easy cut. Most teams release a player or two who disappoint. ...and a lot of failed Tackles end up being good Guards... for instance Mekhi Bechton.

I think those 7 are pretty safe.

8 is probably Andrew Meyer. He's a Center only, but the 'phins saw something in him, keeping him all year even though Brewer kept him on the bench. Unless UDFA Addison West dislodges him (doubtful), I think Meyer is reasonably safe unless he faceplants in pre-season (and you know that we won't expose Brewer much in the preseason).

After that, we have a logjam of players fighting for one spot, unless we elect to keep 10 (and without Armstead in the lineup, we probably won't need a tenth man).

Hayes, Carman, Hines, Braeden Daniels, and longshot international player Matos are all probably one step behind Kion Smith-- maybe two or three steps behind him. Kion is a player the Dolphins obviously like, and he is probably the reason why we haven't brought in a drafted or UDFA OT. We dropped an ERFA tender on him when we could have let him walk... they don't do that unless they like a player. There was some talk that he was ahead of Lamm last year until he was injured in camp. I suspect... (no, I won't put money on it) that Kion is your swing Tackle this year. At any rate, he isn't a Guard-- too light.

Now Hayes, Hines, B. Daniels, and Carmen have a shot... but none of them have shown much in their careers, and all of them have been on multiple teams without ever really making a roster for more than a week or two, so betting on any of them is a fool's bet, but I guess that's why they run the race. Stranger things have happened, although... not usually with Linemen.

Could we bring in another FA lineman? Well, we could... but I don't think we will. Our starting lineup is set and no quality FA is coming here to sit, and the Dolphins are not going to dish out big money for a backup; we're gonna spend whatever we have left on a vet corner.

Now... feel free to throw fruit at me, but I'm only the messenger.
Click to expand...
Yeah we are in a much better place this year. We have some big boys in there now and young. let's keep our fingers crossed and hope this works out. NIce write up.
 
LibertineOneThree said:
Thanks Fever, a fine and considered review.

I've mixed feelings on the 2025 OL. I was for sure one of the posters being very emotional about the OL prior to and during free agency - purely because I'm so fed up with it being out achilles heel. Over the last 15 years we've had spells or seasons of having good to very good units at every single position group... other than one. And I need not to explain why this group being your weak spot when you have a QB severely prone to concussions is a problem.

Regarding the starting 5 I think they've done a solid job. They haven't ignored it and on paper the interior looks a lot stronger than it did 12 months ago. Grier deserves credit for that. There are still three question marks though; Can Paul cut it as a starting tackle? Is Daniels going to be healthy? Will Savvy hit the ground running as a rookie?

The number of snaps taken by OL that weren't in the starting 5 per year over the last 7 seasons is as follows:

2018 - 14%
2019 - 26%
2020 - 14%
2021 - 14%
2022 - 21%
2023 - 35%
2024 - 19%

So this, coupled with those 3 question marks tells us we're going to see a fairly high snap count from the 6th, 7th and possibly 8th men. I'm still very concerned about those players because every one of them has struggled in the NFL. However I do of course accept that no team in the NFL has 8 players on their roster that are all starting calibre.

I think where I would land on it would be we're still one short of having a really good go at fixing this thing with no regrets. If Eich and Borom were your 7th and 8th guys and we'd signed one more capable vet to compete with Savvy in his rookie year, it would afford a lot more contingency. Now that's easily said... but there is such a thing as a salary cap of course so where would I have re-allocated that money? I think when all's said and done it would be NWI's salary that I'd have rather seen saved and spent on a FA guard post-draft. I'd rather have seen Washington, Washington, Eskridge and maybe even Armstrong get those NWI snaps than Eich and Borom have to take the likely 15-20% of OL snaps that they'll have to take.

Complaining about the 6th, 7th and 8th men in the OL rotation though is a significant upgrade on the equivalent complaints over the last 5 years and it's pretty much night and day compared to the complaints of 12 months ago. With that said, I think you have to chalk up the OL investment as pretty solid this offseason. Fingers crossed for Paul, Savvy and the health of those 5 guys in general.
Click to expand...
Nice stat research. Do you know the league average for snap percents?
 
MARINO1384 said:
Jackson is fine, pff isn’t end all be all. Our run game went from solid to straight off the cliff when he went and that’s the only thing that really changed so it was his impact we missed. He hasn’t really been helped if anything he’s been hurt by playing next to Jones and the combo of Eich/cotton/jones that filled in for hunt when he missed like half of 2023 so if anything as long as Daniels/Savaiinaea is next to him he should have the most help he’s had. I find it hard either will be anything close to Eich/jones/cotton.
Click to expand...

Jackson’s problem is in pass pro. He’s not terrible. The problem is when you don’t have Armstead on the other side it’s harder to know you’re helping on that side every play.

I like what they’ve built there though. Just still question marks at every position on the line.
 
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