Are The Dolphins Rebuilding Or Tanking?

[Phinatic8u]

I don't care if we call it rebuilding, tanking, ****ing around or lollygagging. Miami needs an elite quarterback to win when it matters. Drafting lineman or running backs isn't getting this team any closer to winning a damn thing of importance. We need to secure that guy under center on a rookie deal and build.

 

[Rev Kev]

No. Replacing the quarterback is not tanking. That's rebuild. When the Browns got a new QB last year, they were not tanking.
Tanking is intentionally performing below standards. That's what they did ever since they extended Tannehill. They knew he was below standards and they intentionally extended him to perform below standards.

When you could have improved? If you aren’t trying to win are you trying to lose or tie??

 

[Rowdy1972]

Tell me one position where we have gotten better in free agency. We have gotten worse on the Oline. Dline. QB is a wash.

No. Replacing the quarterback is not tanking. That's rebuild. When the Browns got a new QB last year, they were not tanking.
Tanking is intentionally performing below standards. That's what they did ever since they extended Tannehill. They knew he was below standards and they intentionally extended him to perform below standards.

Where has this roster gotten better this offseason? Oline is worse. Dline is worse. QB is a wash (would lean worse). RB is worse. LBs are the same. Secondary is the same. WRs are the same. I agree with everything they have done.

Yeah we got the draft coming up but thats what 1-2 impactful players if we are lucky. If they draft a QB this year, I will change my tune about what direction they are taking this season. I sure hope they dont draft one though.

 

[LargoFin]

When you could have improved? ?

That is correct. They could have improved, they could have attempted to improve, they could have been on a lookout for a new QB since 2015, and they were not. They were content performing below standards. They were tanking. Just like they are this offseason. They are content performing below standards.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Tell me one position where we have gotten better in free agency. We have gotten worse on the Oline. Dline. QB is a wash.


Where has this roster gotten better this offseason? Oline is worse. Dline is worse. QB is a wash (would lean worse). RB is worse. LBs are the same. Secondary is the same. WRs are the same. I agree with everything they have done.

Yeah we got the draft coming up but thats what 1-2 impactful players if we are lucky. If they draft a QB this year, I will change my tune about what direction they are taking this season. I sure hope they dont draft one though.

Just posted elsewhere, don't underestimate the importance of the HC. Given Miami's roster last year, only those in denial will disagree a playoff level HC could have gotten Miami to the playoffs. Not saying DEEP into the playoffs, but to the playoffs. Is Flores THAT HC? I don't pretend to know and won't claim he is, but the importance of the HC is absent from almost tank talk.

Second, look at the players dumped this year. How many people were arguing for them to stay, tank or not. No one wanted Branch, or others. VERY few wanted Quinn, Tannehill, and others. They're gone, deservedly so. Getting rid of underperforming/highly-paid players is what ALL new HCs do, but not all of them are tanking. I also find it interesting some were claiming Branch and others were 'trash,' but now use their departure as a sign Miami doesn't care about winning.

Is Miami tanking or not? I'm on record as uncertain, but leaning no. Even you admit, "QB is a wash (would lean worse). RB is worse. LBs are the same. Secondary is the same. WRs are the same." Excluding RB, you feel the other position groups are roughly equal. If Kilgore starts, OC is equal. Tunsil is equal. Any replacement for Larsen is, at worst, equal. Davis was meh. The only real loss is James, and some would argue with that. DL? DTs are roughly equal. wake is a loss. Maybe Quinn, so, for now, I'll agree DE is worse, but a stud DE R1 MAY change that. RB? Sorry, I don't see the loss of Gore as significant. So, for me, OL is a little worse so far, WRs roughly equal to a little worse, RBs equal, QB equal, TEs equal. On D, DEs significantly worse, DT equal, LB equal, CBs equal, meaning lacking one, Safeties equal. HC? I'll say better, since it would be hard to be as bad as last year's OC/DC. Even if you make 1-2 position groups a little worse, I'd argue 'a little worse' isn't 'tank' until we see what the draft and the rest of FA bring.

None of this guarantees there is o tank, but neither tank or rebuild has data to 'prove' anything.

 

[Rowdy1972]

Just posted elsewhere, don't underestimate the importance of the HC. Given Miami's roster last year, only those in denial will disagree a playoff level HC could have gotten Miami to the playoffs. Not saying DEEP into the playoffs, but to the playoffs. Is Flores THAT HC? I don't pretend to know and won't claim he is, but the importance of the HC is absent from almost tank talk.

Second, look at the players dumped this year. How many people were arguing for them to stay, tank or not. No one wanted Branch, or others. VERY few wanted Quinn, Tannehill, and others. They're gone, deservedly so. Getting rid of underperforming/highly-paid players is what ALL new HCs do, but not all of them are tanking. I also find it interesting some were claiming Branch and others were 'trash,' but now use their departure as a sign Miami doesn't care about winning.

Is Miami tanking or not? I'm on record as uncertain, but leaning no. Even you admit, "QB is a wash (would lean worse). RB is worse. LBs are the same. Secondary is the same. WRs are the same." Excluding RB, you feel the other position groups are roughly equal. If Kilgore starts, OC is equal. Tunsil is equal. Any replacement for Larsen is, at worst, equal. Davis was meh. The only real loss is James, and some would argue with that. DL? DTs are roughly equal. wake is a loss. Maybe Quinn, so, for now, I'll agree DE is worse, but a stud DE R1 MAY change that. RB? Sorry, I don't see the loss of Gore as significant. So, for me, OL is a little worse so far, WRs roughly equal to a little worse, RBs equal, QB equal, TEs equal. On D, DEs significantly worse, DT equal, LB equal, CBs equal, meaning lacking one, Safeties equal. HC? I'll say better, since it would be hard to be as bad as last year's OC/DC. Even if you make 1-2 position groups a little worse, I'd argue 'a little worse' isn't 'tank' until we see what the draft and the rest of FA bring.

None of this guarantees there is o tank, but neither tank or rebuild has data to 'prove' anything.

THEY DIDN'T BRING ANYONE IN DURING FREE AGENCY THAT MAKES THIS TEAM BETTER. I didnt expect them to make any splash signings but they literally signed backups. A worn down TE that had three catches last year WITH THE PATRIOTS. They brought in a backup CB thats played 12 games the past two years. They brought in a guard that has started 8 games in 3 years. They brought in a 37 year old journeyman at QB.

Is that not clear enough evidence that they dont give two shits about winning in 2019?

Sounds like gase was given the "rebuild" talk and he wanted no part of it.

 

[Danny]

THEY DIDN'T BRING ANYONE IN DURING FREE AGENCY THAT MAKES THIS TEAM BETTER. I didnt expect them to make any splash signings but they literally signed backups. A worn down TE that had three catches last year WITH THE PATRIOTS. They brought in a backup CB thats played 12 games the past two years. They brought in a guard that has started 8 games in 3 years. They brought in a 37 year old journeyman at QB.

Is that not clear enough evidence that they dont give two ****s about winning in 2019?

Sounds like gase was given the "rebuild" talk and he wanted no part of it.

Yeah Gase wanted more 8-8 seasons. He seems to love those.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

THEY DIDN'T BRING ANYONE IN DURING FREE AGENCY THAT MAKES THIS TEAM BETTER. I didnt expect them to make any splash signings but they literally signed backups. A worn down TE that had three catches last year WITH THE PATRIOTS. They brought in a backup CB thats played 12 games the past two years. They brought in a guard that has started 8 games in 3 years. They brought in a 37 year old journeyman at QB.

Is that not clear enough evidence that they dont give two ****s about winning in 2019?

Sounds like gase was given the "rebuild" talk and he wanted no part of it.

We can argue this til September, but I won't. You have stated, correctly, most units are no worse than last year or a little worse. That's on a roster that won 7 games with Gase/Burke calling plays adjustments. And how many of those guys brought in has Flores said will start? To be fair, you have stated no one has been brought in to make the team better. I agree. But the absence of 'better' does not mean worse. We will have to wait. Again, all we have is opinion.

 

[phins_4_ever]

it is a rebuild in every sense. We have gotten rid of players who weren't productive and had no production/contract value. I find it ironic that the same fans who wanted to get rid of these players in the first place are now declaring "we are tanking" after we got rid of them.

If you are tanking you get rid of every high profile and possible productive player: on offense you dump Drake, Stills, Grant, Wilson and you do not sign a QB who will be good for a couple wins here and there.
On defense you get rid of Minkha who would have a high trade value at this point and players like X.

We are in a typical rebuild mode. We may have 3 wins or we may have 6 wins. Who knows. The question will be how well the coaching staff can coach the current squad up. Flores comes from a team who is well known of coaching players up and above their expected talent level. We will have a lot of UDFAs next year on our squad. They will be coached up and the team will be coached to win otherwise you cannot evaluate young talent. Nobody knows how many wins that will be. But Grier and Flores take the right approach of building a young and hungry team while collecting enough draft picks to either move in this year's draft or next year's draft.

The idea that we are tanking is a simple minded thinking. It really is left to those who have no answer on how a franchise is build. "Tank and we will be a winner" If that would be so easy than pretty much every team would do it every now and then. But no coach, no GM and no player ever wants to be affiliated with such a loser mentality.

 

[Rowdy1972]

Yeah Gase wanted more 8-8 seasons. He seems to love those.

Besides the 10 win season we had with him. He wasn't the greatest coach, but lets not make him out like he was Cam Cameron.He exceeded vegas expectations last year with Brock at QB for 5 games. He also got another coaching gig pretty damn quick. I am glad he's gone but will Flores be better? Not sure. People make it seem like Flores will automatically be better. I don't subscribe to that just yet.

 

[Kamelion4291]

We can argue this til September, but I won't. You have stated, correctly, most units are no worse than last year or a little worse. That's on a roster that won 7 games with Gase/Burke calling plays adjustments. And how many of those guys brought in has Flores said will start? To be fair, you have stated no one has been brought in to make the team better. I agree. But the absence of 'better' does not mean worse. We will have to wait. Again, all we have is opinion.

Your logic makes sense if you take our win total at face value, but statistically speaking we were on average a 3 win team based on numbers that happened to luck into more than 3 wins.

We gave up the most yards in franchise history. We were a bottom 3 offense. We were blown out in a majority of our losses, games where we weren't even competitive.

If you think that we were that bad because of coaching, then that's fine. I think it was both, so even if we upgraded our coaching (which is still unknown at this point), we definitely got worse on the talent front on a statistical 3 win team.

Factor all of this in, and we're in for a rough year unless Flores and his staff turn out to be completely amazing.

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

This whole issue has become comical.

Word games should be left for political discussions not offseason football.

Rebuild, tank or reset....its long overdue and warranted. Talent level will be down, age of players will also be down and our cap issues in 2020 will give this franchise the ability to keep their own and to continue to put quality foundational pieces on the field.

They must hit on their picks in the upcoming draft, and decide where they seek to put volume by position. I think it will be DLINE, and it should.

 

[Danny]

Besides the 10 win season we had with him. He wasn't the greatest coach, but lets not make him out like he was Cam Cameron.He exceeded vegas expectations last year with Brock at QB for 5 games. He also got another coaching gig pretty damn quick. I am glad he's gone but will Flores be better? Not sure. People make it seem like Flores will automatically be better. I don't subscribe to that just yet.

I agree we have no idea how Flores will do but at least he's not trying to just plug holes with older and injured players. Gase put all his eggs in one basket(Tannehill) which happen to be the wrong move. I was ready for a change but I know other people wanted/want more of the same.

 

[superphin]

Besides the 10 win season we had with him. He wasn't the greatest coach, but lets not make him out like he was Cam Cameron.He exceeded vegas expectations last year with Brock at QB for 5 games. He also got another coaching gig pretty damn quick. I am glad he's gone but will Flores be better? Not sure. People make it seem like Flores will automatically be better. I don't subscribe to that just yet.

Flores may not automatically be better but with Gase you know what you're getting, sloppy undisciplined play, slow starts and seemingly no in game adjustments. The unknown always gives people hope especially when the alternative was more 8-8 seasons.

 

[marino13zach54]

Flores may not automatically be better but with Gase you know what you're getting, sloppy undisciplined play, slow starts and seemingly no in game adjustments. The unknown always gives people hope especially when the alternative was more 8-8 seasons.

As so it should. We are breathing fresh air with fresh lungs right now. We should all be excited to begin anew. We should all be hopeful.

I get that we've earned the pessimism some have but why not approach this unknown tongue out, rubbing hands together with an evil, little grin thinking, "Ha. Ha. Ha, motherfkrs. It's our turn. We'll be coming for all of you. I'll see you in a few"?

Come season, we may be overwhelmed with negative results. Now is the time to be excited. This is the most important draft in how long?

This is all fun territory, this unknown. I say enjoy it. Make the best of it. And for the love of a greater power, believe in the power of faith and hope, baby.