Beginning of the C Gates and Phillip Livas effects | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Beginning of the C Gates and Phillip Livas effects

LikeUntoGod said:
Gates is still playing almost every rep. He is going to be our #2 WR. He played more snaps then any other WR on our team.
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Maybe because he's a rookie and they want him to be as game ready as possible. I think come the actual season, we'll see more of Hartline than Gates. Not that I agree cause everyone loves speed, but im just sayin
 
LikeUntoGod said:
I'm watching the game again, there were a couple of thing I was wondering about and to be honest, had not really really watched the 2nd half.

A couple of things I feel are important.

Rookie WR C Gates is playing almost every down of offense. Starters are Gates, Marshall and Bess in the slot. Hartline is coming in and taking either Marshall or Gate's place when needed (thus his few catches). Watch the game again and Gates is amost always the left WR and Marshall the right while Hartline plays both sides.

I just another really poor Chad Henne pass that IMO was for C Gates who was open. 7:48 left in the 2nd Qtr, and the ball comes out of his hand wrong and goes between a streaking Gates and C Clay coming out of the backfield. It landed between Gates and Clay so not one could decide who it was going to.

Just watch the games and look at the WRs before the snap. The next play after, 2nd and 15th, Gates top left, Bess in slot, Hartline bottom right. Gates run a streak and Bess catches a 17 yard pass running underneath

Play by play guys showed how the FS was way back double covering deep on Gates allowing Bess to run free.

Next play at 7:02 left. Gates again far outside left. This is the route where he blows past the pressing corner and then by the stunned safety. But Chad Henne overthrows him. He would have caught the ball on the 20 yard line running for a TD.

They give gates a break and bring in Moore to the right side, Hartline on the left and again Bess is in the slot.

Bess catches another 17 yard pass on our 1st 5 wide. However, this play started out as a 3 wide and Fasano and RB D Thomas split out.

Gates is still playing almost every rep. He is going to be our #2 WR. He played more snaps then any other WR on our team.

One other things. Having Gates and Livas as return guy is making us yards. Watch all the punts, the Panthers are kicking short and kicking out of bounds or as close to the line as possible. At the start of the second half 13:40 left in the 3tr, Nat Moore mentions how the Panthers are being careful punting because of Livas and Gates and the Panthers then get a "15 yard out of bounds hit penalty" on the play hitting C Gates late on his punt return. E Brown, #91 was the 4th Panther to hit Gates on that play.
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just because gates is in getting lots of reps doesnt mean he will be #2. In fact, it doesnt matter who is # whatever. They said they are getting him reps in this offense because of this short offseason and he will be important factor in it. Popping off lid.

and thanks for pointing out yet another chad henne bad pass....
 
I appreciate you pointing this out to some of us who can't watch these games.

It's one thing to catch quick highlights on ESPN and NFL Newtwork, but this is something I haven't heard being discussed really.

I saw the stats and was scratching my head how Gates wasn't involved in that game, but a lot of what you say makes a lot of sense. I'm all for this.

And I disagree with finfan54 about him starting not meaning much. If Gates is effective at causing the defense to react how they did, no way do they keep him off this field. Just remember this isn't Dan Henning's offense anymore. There seems to be some common sense being applied on offense for once...
 
I certainly think that Livas makes the final 53 if we keep 6 WR. How many people at the bottom of the roster ever see the field much less have a chance to impact the game. Gates, Bess & Bush are too valuable to our offense to have them returning kicks and it is something that Livas definitely excels at. I guarantee that he will not last on the PS and some team that has a crap return team - like us without pansy boy Ginn - will snatch him up and he will punish us for cutting him. We need to give the kid a shot rather than wasting the spot on some lineman that will never see the field.
 
P. Livas - 5 PR, 101 yards, 20.2 avg, 1 td (6.5 avg without 75 yard td)
5 KR, 121 yards, 24.2 avg

C. Gates - 2 PR, 12 yards, 6.0 avg, 0 td
3 KR, 63 yards, 21.0 avg

This does not account for changes in punting or kicking strategy (kicking out of bounds, short kicks, high kicks, etc.) due to Livas run back. To me, with limited observation, the choice is clear that we MUST make room for Livas as he can add a great deal to the field position battle.
 
Mr_Freezetag said:
I appreciate you pointing this out to some of us who can't watch these games.

It's one thing to catch quick highlights on ESPN and NFL Newtwork, but this is something I haven't heard being discussed really.

I saw the stats and was scratching my head how Gates wasn't involved in that game, but a lot of what you say makes a lot of sense. I'm all for this.

And I disagree with finfan54 about him starting not meaning much. If Gates is effective at causing the defense to react how they did, no way do they keep him off this field. Just remember this isn't Dan Henning's offense anymore. There seems to be some common sense being applied on offense for once...
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I tend to go over every play over and over and I often jot my thoughts down per play and when things hit me. Glad you like it:) Stats and highlights do not tell the full story. I do not get Dolphin games in this part of Florida and have to get the Sunday Ticket but this DVR is wonderful for watching film.

C Gates is getting more game reps then any other WR because we expect him to play there sooner then later. He is getting a large amount of practice reps. He want him to be a starter. We are working him like a dog to see if he can cut it and to find out just how tough he is.
He worked a lot, running downs as well as pass plays. He worked a lot as a decoy, he always had a safety deep on him as the defenses would seem to slide his way.

You could tell that there was a fear of C Gates by watching the Panther's defense. He simply being on the field pushed back the secondary and helped Bess and Marshall each get 5 catches. Is it like no team wants to be the first team that C Gates catches a long TD bomb on.

I'm 100% sure that every defense we are going to play is working into their gameplan a special plan for covering C Gates.

One thing you can see between the first and second half is that the defense of the Panther's changes when C Gates is out of the game.

I should say that we never went with 5 WRs. We moved out of single back formation with our RB and TE splitting out as WRs. D Thomas was the RB and A Fasano was the TE. I think we will see R Bush and C Clay lined up this way or a I formation with R Bush, C Clay and A Fasano also going to 5 wide.

At times things are not what they seem to be at first sight, I got the shot of us coming out of the huddle, moving to the Single Back formation and then moving to 5 wide. It semi shock up the Panthers for a second.
 
Buddy said:
I certainly think that Livas makes the final 53 if we keep 6 WR. How many people at the bottom of the roster ever see the field much less have a chance to impact the game. Gates, Bess & Bush are too valuable to our offense to have them returning kicks and it is something that Livas definitely excels at. I guarantee that he will not last on the PS and some team that has a crap return team - like us without pansy boy Ginn - will snatch him up and he will punish us for cutting him. We need to give the kid a shot rather than wasting the spot on some lineman that will never see the field.
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I agree 1000%.

And I firmly believe that he was brought in here to play that role for us. Phillip Livas wearing a Miami Dolphin jersey is not a accident.
 
LikeUntoGod said:
I agree 1000%.

And I firmly believe that he was brought in here to play that role for us. Phillip Livas wearing a Miami Dolphin jersey is not a accident.
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If you are talking about returning punts yes. As far as returning kicks, I wouldn't care if Henne was back there with new kickoff rule.
 
I really like both of these players..I hope they both make the team..
 
dolphinfan41 said:
If you are talking about returning punts yes. As far as returning kicks, I wouldn't care if Henne was back there with new kickoff rule.
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I think that kick returns will play some relevant role this year as not every team has Janikowski, however we will see more touchbacks than ever.
 
If you've been watching the preseason, in most games teams are simply becoming much more aggressive. I realize that is partially because its preseason and they want to see what guys can do on returns, but most of what has happened is guys who are returning it are getting past the twenty almost every time.

I think that most coaches aren't going to completely forgo the opportunities for big plays and are going to let their returners take it out of the endzone.
 





http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins ... notes.html

Remember I told you a couple of weeks ago the Dolphins had a competition for the starting wide receiver job opposite Brandon Marshall?

They still have a competition going for that starting wide receiver job. I asked coach Tony Sparano today if he had decided on the winner of the competition yet.

"Not yet, no, yeah, to me, it’s still open with, you know, that group of there, you know, that’s there and, you know, we’re going to play them a lot in the next couple of weeks," Sparano said. "We're going to play them a bunch this week, as much as we can play them and get a couple of guys up in the rotation this week, but you know, they’re going to play all those guys a lot in the next two weeks.”

The players vying for that starting job are Brian Hartline, Davone Bess and Clyde Gates.

I think it is between B Hartline and C Gates since we want D Bess in the slot. And I believe that our coaching staff wants C Gates on the field as often as possible and will press the "#2 WR" job on him. B Hartline will keep being a important WR who will come in at the #1 or #2 position when needed.

Last season we had at most 3 WRs who could play in the NFL. I remember Marshall running till he was exhausted and we had no one to send in to give him a break that we could count on. With R Wallace we now have 5 young and experienced WRs to use.
 
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...livas-miami-dolphins-20110825,0,2422396.story


By Harvey Fialkov Sun Sentinel


Livas, 22, doesn’t appear to be in the running for one of the congested receiving corps jobs.In order for Livas to make the final 53-man roster it will probably have to be as a return specialist.

“Livas had the first game against Atlanta and in the first two punts [against Carolina they], outkicked directionally away from him. That told me a little something in that deal and I think that’s kind of what you’re trying to get to.’’ said Sparano.

Sparano said one reason the Bears made the playoffs last year was because they have dangerous Pro Bowl returner Devin Hester back there – even the threat of him - to help Chicago lead the NFL in drives starting past the 20-yard line

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I think P Livas is here just to be a very good return guy. If he can ever do anything else then great but he is mainly here to gain us yards per game in return yards. Also counted are the yards gained from the other team kicking away or short etc. He is a rookie and has already ran back one punt for a 75 yard TD.

With D Bess we had a return guy that we trusted(A) to do returns and could make some yards(B). What we are hoping for in Livas is that not only can he be counted on to catch the punt but he can give us good field position. If you watched Livas you would see how well he knew where he was on the field and had great ball awareness. You can tell that he is skilled at that position.

Compare that to C Gates's almost big mistake against the Falcons. There was no surprise that P Livas would relieve him. I would also like C Gates, partly because of all the lost practices, to spend all his time as a WR,

P Livas returning the ball also releases D Bess from that chore. D Bess has a decent average (better then R Bush) but has never been a threat to return one for a TD.

P Livas can return them and I think he will be our "6th" WR/KR. Remembering that he is just a rookie, I'm sure we will give him time to adjust and improve to the NFL but you have to admit that he has done that pretty well.

LUG/Buddha
 
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